Macski:
Any one working for agency, take a look at this tax.service.gov.uk/check-em … disclaimer seems to suggest that if yur working on a ad hoc bases your self employed or have I got things wrong?
That link seems to go to the start of HMRC questionnaire? Don`t know what answers you gave?
And “anyone working for an agency” is…working for an agency…so will be (I think) an employee.
If they work for more than one agency, they have more than one employer, that doesn`t mean (I think) they are self employed at all.
gov.uk/employment-status/se … contractor
Franglais:
Macski:
Any one working for agency, take a look at this tax.service.gov.uk/check-em … disclaimer seems to suggest that if yur working on a ad hoc bases your self employed or have I got things wrong?
That link seems to go to the start of HMRC questionnaire? Don`t know what answers you gave?
And “anyone working for an agency” is…working for an agency…so will be (I think) an employee.
If they work for more than one agency, they have more than one employer, that doesn`t mean (I think) they are self employed at all.
gov.uk/employment-status/se … contractor
No, but the fact you need to provide your own PPE, sat nav, the fact you don’t have to work for them and you dictate your own shifts, a car is usually a requirment, also you have to pay for your own training ie CDC, digical card and so on may mean your self employed.
End of the day I guess it is down to how much you earn, if you earn an average wage your PAYE, if you earn £200,000 you can be self employed, if your a multi millionaire you don’t have to pay tax.
Franglais:
Noremac:
There are some options, but are you prepared to do a bit of work for a relatively modest sum?
You can claim tax relief on meals during the day if you are away all day. You don’t even need receipts, just take note of how many hours your day was. £5 or £10 per day taken out of tax consideration could be £1 - £2 per day.
The rules on temporary workers travel expenses is a bit of a moot point, especially on these forums. There have been some rule changes meaning that employment intermediaries can’t put through expenses anymore. You also wouldn’t be able to claim expenses to a normal place of work, even if you are a temporary worker, however there may be a way round this because many agency workers are offered work day by day, so effectively each offer of work for another day is a new contract, so this could be said to be temporary, even if you are going to the same place.
Travelling expenses are done using a standard rate per mile, which is supposed to cover fuel, wear and tear on your car etc etc. So if £2000 is taken out of tax, for a basic rate tax payer, this equates to around £400 in your pocket if the travel is valid and claimable.
“The travel and subsistence expense rules will apply in the same way as they would if the worker was engaged directly. It’s therefore likely that each workplace a worker attends will fall within the definition of a permanent workplace and travel to that workplace, from home (or a place that is not a workplace) would be considered ordinary commuting for the purposes of section 338 of ITEPA. Any payment for the cost of this travel would therefore be subject to tax”
gov.uk/government/publicati … april-2016
I wasn’t logged in, so I did read your comment.
I believe “permanent workplace” is defined as somewhere “the employee regularly attends”.
In the case of having shifts confirmed day by day, the contract is for a single day. There is only one attendance, so it is impossible to “regularly attend” (in my opinion anyway).
The reason I say moot point is because I believe there was at least one ardent pursuer of the contrary, saying effectively it is possible to have a permanent workplace for a single day.
The 2016 changes just stopped all the umbrella malarkey as far as I can see.
Noremac:
Franglais:
Noremac:
There are some options, but are you prepared to do a bit of work for a relatively modest sum?
You can claim tax relief on meals during the day if you are away all day. You don’t even need receipts, just take note of how many hours your day was. £5 or £10 per day taken out of tax consideration could be £1 - £2 per day.
The rules on temporary workers travel expenses is a bit of a moot point, especially on these forums. There have been some rule changes meaning that employment intermediaries can’t put through expenses anymore. You also wouldn’t be able to claim expenses to a normal place of work, even if you are a temporary worker, however there may be a way round this because many agency workers are offered work day by day, so effectively each offer of work for another day is a new contract, so this could be said to be temporary, even if you are going to the same place.
Travelling expenses are done using a standard rate per mile, which is supposed to cover fuel, wear and tear on your car etc etc. So if £2000 is taken out of tax, for a basic rate tax payer, this equates to around £400 in your pocket if the travel is valid and claimable.
“The travel and subsistence expense rules will apply in the same way as they would if the worker was engaged directly. It’s therefore likely that each workplace a worker attends will fall within the definition of a permanent workplace and travel to that workplace, from home (or a place that is not a workplace) would be considered ordinary commuting for the purposes of section 338 of ITEPA. Any payment for the cost of this travel would therefore be subject to tax”
gov.uk/government/publicati … april-2016
I wasn’t logged in, so I did read your comment.
I believe “permanent workplace” is defined as somewhere “the employee regularly attends”.
In the case of having shifts confirmed day by day, the contract is for a single day. There is only one attendance, so it is impossible to “regularly attend” (in my opinion anyway).
The reason I say moot point is because I believe there was at least one ardent pursuer of the contrary, saying effectively it is possible to have a permanent workplace for a single day.
The 2016 changes just stopped all the umbrella malarkey as far as I can see.
Noremac:
I believe “permanent workplace” is defined as somewhere “the employee regularly attends”.
" each workplace a worker attends will fall within the definition of a permanent workplace"
From .gov link above, refer to it for full context. So, HMRC seems to have a different opinion to you.
Noremac:
The reason I say moot point is because I believe there was at least one ardent pursuer of the contrary, saying effectively it is possible to have a permanent workplace for a single day.
Has this person won the argument with HMRC?
Strictly, I guess, any rule that has even one person disputing might be termed “moot”. But is that particularly apt?
Surely every HMRC rule has someone railing agin it! 
Franglais:
Noremac:
Franglais:
Noremac:
There are some options, but are you prepared to do a bit of work for a relatively modest sum?
You can claim tax relief on meals during the day if you are away all day. You don’t even need receipts, just take note of how many hours your day was. £5 or £10 per day taken out of tax consideration could be £1 - £2 per day.
The rules on temporary workers travel expenses is a bit of a moot point, especially on these forums. There have been some rule changes meaning that employment intermediaries can’t put through expenses anymore. You also wouldn’t be able to claim expenses to a normal place of work, even if you are a temporary worker, however there may be a way round this because many agency workers are offered work day by day, so effectively each offer of work for another day is a new contract, so this could be said to be temporary, even if you are going to the same place.
Travelling expenses are done using a standard rate per mile, which is supposed to cover fuel, wear and tear on your car etc etc. So if £2000 is taken out of tax, for a basic rate tax payer, this equates to around £400 in your pocket if the travel is valid and claimable.
“The travel and subsistence expense rules will apply in the same way as they would if the worker was engaged directly. It’s therefore likely that each workplace a worker attends will fall within the definition of a permanent workplace and travel to that workplace, from home (or a place that is not a workplace) would be considered ordinary commuting for the purposes of section 338 of ITEPA. Any payment for the cost of this travel would therefore be subject to tax”
gov.uk/government/publicati … april-2016
I wasn’t logged in, so I did read your comment.
I believe “permanent workplace” is defined as somewhere “the employee regularly attends”.
In the case of having shifts confirmed day by day, the contract is for a single day. There is only one attendance, so it is impossible to “regularly attend” (in my opinion anyway).
The reason I say moot point is because I believe there was at least one ardent pursuer of the contrary, saying effectively it is possible to have a permanent workplace for a single day.
The 2016 changes just stopped all the umbrella malarkey as far as I can see.
Noremac:
I believe “permanent workplace” is defined as somewhere “the employee regularly attends”.
" each workplace a worker attends will fall within the definition of a permanent workplace"
From .gov link above, refer to it for full context. So, HMRC seems to have a different opinion to you.
Noremac:
The reason I say moot point is because I believe there was at least one ardent pursuer of the contrary, saying effectively it is possible to have a permanent workplace for a single day.
Has this person won the argument with HMRC?
Strictly, I guess, any rule that has even one person disputing might be termed “moot”. But is that particularly apt?
Surely every HMRC rule has someone railing agin it!
Again you selectively quote, missing out words that don’t assist you. You missed “It’s therefore likely…”.
The changes made in 2016 just brought those working through umbrella companies under the same rules by the way. Quoting from the amendment doesn’t even get to the actual rules. I have found the definition of “permanent workplace” from the legislation.
I am unaware if there is any case law on this. My interest isn’t sufficient to check to be honest. I think the way it works is you go on your interpretation of the rules and wait to see what HMRC has to say about it. Comply with any request made and all good. I am not eligible, but the question was asked and I gave my take on it.
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