sammyopisite:
ramone I could have done with some needles of the pain killing type as when I first started you had a speedo that said you could do 0 to 35 in about .005 seconds a temp. gauge and a little arm that would pop up saying stop but when you saw it you couldn’t old Cliff who taught me had a piece of hardwood 2x2 which was excellent ( though painful ) for making sure you concentrated on what you were doing, as he only told you once. I will say that he taught me a lot and kept me doing things the correct way for the rest of my lorry driving career.
cheers Johnnie
ha ha my dad told me about those little pop up arms
Your dad told you ?
I remember the little red flag that popped up for low air or vacuum, or when the ignition light was called the pilot light, no keys it was a switch ! Anyone remember the early Seddons BRS used that had an accelerator in the middle between the clutch and brake pedal. I wasn’t old enough to drive them but still travelled some miles on the trailer brake side!
sammyopisite:
Hiya Johnnie,the reason the Scania sometimes twisted the prop shaft was a deliberate weak spot they created! A propshaft was easier to replace than stripping the diff down if a half shaft broke! I know,a bit of useless info but true all the same.Cheers dennis.
Hi Dennis that makes sense to me anyway as I knew a firm who did low loader work with a 110 carried a spare prop shaft with them so the crew could change it themselves.
cheers Johnnie
P S you may want to book a holiday as I am coming over to your coast ( well just south of you to the tower ) in 3 weeks for the weekend for a family wedding.
[/quote]
I’ve just booked two airline tickets to anywhere!!! Dennis.
ramone:
And if people on the thread knew what they are talking about they’d know that there’s no way that a 9 Litre engine can be driven in the same way as a 14 Litre one can even if you are one of the lot who run something almost to a standstill before dropping a gear.
I have been very lucky with the lorries i have driven , due to me not knowing what i`m talking about the manufacturers have very kindly fitted rev counters with nice green bands on them and i have been told to keep the needle in that section as thats where i would get the most efficent performance … not sure what that means as im very limited
Obviously.The green band usually just denotes the usual max torque-max power rev band and letting the thing lug right down to max torque,or below that,before downshifting is just as bad as running it up to max power,or above,before upshifting.In the context of a Gardner (or that non turbocharged 680 in that Routeman heap) letting it lug just meant that there was no point in going far up the rev range because,unlike the Detroit,they could’nt sustain torque much up the rev range anyway.Which is why that 14 Litre non turbocharged Detroit was rated far higher in it’s power output than a 14 Litre non turbocharged ■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■ or 680 and it’s why Detroits worked best with plenty of close ratio gears to allow the thing to be kept somewhere between max torque and max power revs which also works the same for most types of engine anyway.It’s just that as I’ve said engines like the Gardner had very little power output as the revs climbed.
I’ve been very lucky in the lorries that I have driven in that some had rev counters with green bands and some did’nt but I did’nt actually need it to tell me when an engine was below,or at, it’s peak torque output,or above,or at,it’s peak power output and what actually matters is engine load and in that context it’s the pedal position that matters more than anything else and having your foot to the boards hanging on to a high gear at low revs,uses more fuel than downshifting to a lower gear quicker at a higher roadspeed and keeping the thing turning over at closer to it’s max power output than max torque usually requiring less engine load because the torque produced at the wheels by the lower gear in that situation is more than it is in the higher gear in the other situation.
The driver of that b doubles outfit was obviously more used to driving the ■■■■■■■ and Gardner way which is no bad reflection on the Detroit because that just proved that it was happy however it’s driven unlike a zb Gardner.
.
Carl:
sorry if somones already said this but,as i lost the will to live after reading the first to pages, yes continental lorries were/are better if they wernt why did foden, erf, leyland etc all dissapear.i tell ya why cus they were crap , foden only got any good when the were a daf cf with a foden badge the only decent erfs were the ec with 14litre ■■■■■■■ and ecx with the 525 ■■■■■■■ and you only bought them cuz of the driveline
Hi carl when the continental’s first arrived I would not say they were better but certainly more comfortable most of them were very poor on hilly terrain as there was very little motorway’s then and they were all fairly quick on the flat but inferior on the hills I would say the first one that pulled well was the Scania 110 though it did have a tendency to twist prop shafts, then the 240 Volvo but I am sure these were designed for 48 tons GTW in their native country.
The 250 bhp ■■■■■■■ and the 280 bhp rolls would out pull them as well as the 240 Gardner but it did not take long for them to upgrade their engines to equal and then pass what we had to offer which most british manufacturers failed to realize and this lack of foresight was the beginning of the end of our lorry manufacturing industry.
The mid 70s saw the build quality and service back up deteriorate with a could not care less attitude of the our work force.
cheers Johnnie
Hiya Johnnie,the reason the Scania sometimes twisted the prop shaft was a deliberate weak spot they created! A
was easier to replace than stripping the diff down if a half shaft broke! I know,a bit of useless info but true all the
same.Cheers dennis.
I heard that said about the 143 after I done a prop going up a steep haul road at 48 ton
Listening to your diatribe makes my teeth itch “carryfast”!!! You really have missed your way son,you should have been on To-morrows World with Raymond Baxter! with your unlimited knowledge how come you failed at the interview for a presenters job on the show?Then you would have just bored the “anoraks” that watched it,instead of getting up the nostrils of all Lads on this site!! Bewick.
The available torque range on a green grenade was like most 2 strokes, ■■■■■■ The fact they needed so many gears speaks volumes ! have you ever driven some of these machines you are commenting on Carryfast, they made a nice sound but that would get on your wick after 2 hrs and they were a fuel and oil consumption dinosaur !
And here was me thinking the Scania propshaft issue was simply a lack of grease
Much to my chagrin I find I am in slight agreement with Carryfast here, but only about the lugging thing. A ■■■■■■■ would lug right down and still pull your grannies pants off, but a lugging Scania, especially the 112 seemed to have a tendency to snap the crankshaft.
Trev_H:
The available torque range on a green grenade was like most 2 strokes, [zb]! The fact they needed so many gears speaks volumes ! have you ever driven some of these machines you are commenting on Carryfast, they made a nice sound but that would get on your wick after 2 hrs and they were a fuel and oil consumption dinosaur !
You are jesting Trev arn’t you! He’s read all the DDs spec manuals so he dosen’t need to get behind the wheel,he just memorises all the pages! how else could he spout all that (zb) word perfect as well!! Cheers Dennis.
Trev_H:
The available torque range on a green grenade was like most 2 strokes, [zb]! The fact they needed so many gears speaks volumes ! have you ever driven some of these machines you are commenting on Carryfast, they made a nice sound but that would get on your wick after 2 hrs and they were a fuel and oil consumption dinosaur !
How the zb can an engine with a power band in which max torque is delivered at 1,100 rpm and max power at 2,100 rpm,be zb .
All diesel engines have a relatively narrow torque-power band and all diesels run better with close ratio gearboxes not wide ratios however the Detroit could actually develop more specific torque not less and sustain more of that torque for longer up the rev range so developed more specific power too.I think you’re trying to argue with the laws of physics and mathematics.
Wheel Nut:
And here was me thinking the Scania propshaft issue was simply a lack of grease
Much to my chagrin I find I am in slight agreement with Carryfast here, but only about the lugging thing. A ■■■■■■■ would lug right down and still pull your grannies pants off, but a lugging Scania, especially the 112 seemed to have a tendency to snap the crankshaft.
End of agreement
And a 16V71 could pull your grannies house down and the one next door at idle without snapping it’s crankshaft.
Trev_H:
The available torque range on a green grenade was like most 2 strokes, [zb]! The fact they needed so many gears speaks volumes ! have you ever driven some of these machines you are commenting on Carryfast, they made a nice sound but that would get on your wick after 2 hrs and they were a fuel and oil consumption dinosaur !
You are jesting Trev arn’t you! He’s read all the DDs spec manuals so he dosen’t need to get behind the wheel,he just memorises all the pages! how else could he spout all that (zb) word perfect as well!! Cheers Dennis.
The fact is Bewick I’m speaking from experience whereas you never even drove a zb Brit spec 7 Litre or 9 Litre one because you told the salesman to zb off remember.
Evening all, way past my bedtime, and certainly past CFs. CF, empty your piggy bank, I can deliver your dream!! 1980 KW100 110inch aerodyne Detroit V8 (with dyno sheets showing 600hp) 15speed double overdrive AND a 6speed Spicer, 8bag air, 200inch wb air slider Rose pink and grey Imron paint, all the chocolate brown tufted and buttoned VIT Naugahyde interior you can handle, Lambs wool carpeting, twin hi back air ride seats, leather and Naugahyde trim, chrome column and pedals A/C blows cold, 30 gauges, all alloy Budds new 24inch Michelins on steer, new recaps drive axles, twin chrome 6inch straight thro stacks, Comes from a good home in Montana, (land of the Bull Haulers).She is a good one I know her pedigree, and I can deliver her to Southampton for you to collect!!! What do you say? You can howl round blowing every bodies doors off , “One of a kind” A Bankers draft for 60K would be acceptable, (and every contributor to this forum is in for some “introductory commission” Good night mes amis. Bon Chance, (as they say in Bilston Spa)
Saviem:
Evening all, way past my bedtime, and certainly past CFs. CF, empty your piggy bank, I can deliver your dream!! 1980 KW100 110inch aerodyne Detroit V8 (with dyno sheets showing 600hp) 15speed double overdrive AND a 6speed Spicer, 8bag air, 200inch wb air slider Rose pink and grey Imron paint, all the chocolate brown tufted and buttoned VIT Naugahyde interior you can handle, Lambs wool carpeting, twin hi back air ride seats, leather and Naugahyde trim, chrome column and pedals A/C blows cold, 30 gauges, all alloy Budds new 24inch Michelins on steer, new recaps drive axles, twin chrome 6inch straight thro stacks, Comes from a good home in Montana, (land of the Bull Haulers).She is a good one I know her pedigree, and I can deliver her to Southampton for you to collect!!! What do you say? You can howl round blowing every bodies doors off , “One of a kind” A Bankers draft for 60K would be acceptable, (and every contributor to this forum is in for some “introductory commission” Good night mes amis. Bon Chance, (as they say in Bilston Spa)
Sounds like another one destined for Cherbourg and a French circus.But that should be able to get a few elephants up to Chamonix quicker than a zb Merc would.
But if no one wants that motor in it why the zb is it so expensive .But if the circus does’nt want it and if you could get 50 K off the price and fit it with a 13 speed fuller and paint it black with chrome hand grab rails I might be interested.
ramone:
And if people on the thread knew what they are talking about they’d know that there’s no way that a 9 Litre engine can be driven in the same way as a 14 Litre one can even if you are one of the lot who run something almost to a standstill before dropping a gear.
I have been very lucky with the lorries i have driven , due to me not knowing what i`m talking about the manufacturers have very kindly fitted rev counters with nice green bands on them and i have been told to keep the needle in that section as thats where i would get the most efficent performance … not sure what that means as im very limited
Obviously.The green band usually just denotes the usual max torque-max power rev band and letting the thing lug right down to max torque,or below that,before downshifting is just as bad as running it up to max power,or above,before upshifting.In the context of a Gardner (or that non turbocharged 680 in that Routeman heap) letting it lug just meant that there was no point in going far up the rev range because,unlike the Detroit,they could’nt sustain torque much up the rev range anyway.Which is why that 14 Litre non turbocharged Detroit was rated far higher in it’s power output than a 14 Litre non turbocharged ■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■ or 680 and it’s why Detroits worked best with plenty of close ratio gears to allow the thing to be kept somewhere between max torque and max power revs which also works the same for most types of engine anyway.It’s just that as I’ve said engines like the Gardner had very little power output as the revs climbed.
I’ve been very lucky in the lorries that I have driven in that some had rev counters with green bands and some did’nt but I did’nt actually need it to tell me when an engine was below,or at, it’s peak torque output,or above,or at,it’s peak power output and what actually matters is engine load and in that context it’s the pedal position that matters more than anything else and having your foot to the boards hanging on to a high gear at low revs,uses more fuel than downshifting to a lower gear quicker at a higher roadspeed and keeping the thing turning over at closer to it’s max power output than max torque usually requiring less engine load because the torque produced at the wheels by the lower gear in that situation is more than it is in the higher gear in the other situation.
The driver of that b doubles outfit was obviously more used to driving the ■■■■■■■ and Gardner way which is no bad reflection on the Detroit because that just proved that it was happy however it’s driven unlike a zb Gardner.
.
So 9 pages of Carryfasts Detroit V whatever which wasnt really the question,i think the British manufacturers saw and acted too late to try and compete with the continentals.Cabs which were insulated against noise and weather,heaters that worked ,power steering,more than 6 speed gearboxes,and driver acceptance.......Volvo have gone from strength to strength with their little 6.7 litre and 9.6 litre bread and butter motors that couldnt hold a candle to the mighty V8 Detroit that most hauliers didnt need and didnt buy.Scania too with their 110/140 - 111/141 seemed to be a favourite Merc and Daf are still producing but the 2 which i`m suprised lasted this long are Iveco and Renault the latter now under Volvos wing were known for their poor build quality.
ramone:
So 9 pages of Carryfasts Detroit V whatever which wasnt really the question,i think the British manufacturers saw and acted too late to try and compete with the continentals.Cabs which were insulated against noise and weather,heaters that worked ,power steering,more than 6 speed gearboxes,and driver acceptance.......Volvo have gone from strength to strength with their little 6.7 litre and 9.6 litre bread and butter motors that couldnt hold a candle to the mighty V8 Detroit that most hauliers didnt need and didnt buy.Scania too with their 110/140 - 111/141 seemed to be a favourite Merc and Daf are still producing but the 2 which i`m suprised lasted this long are Iveco and Renault the latter now under Volvos wing were known for their poor build quality.
No 9 pages of proof that it was the retarded Brit buyers who preferred those gutless,cold,uncomfortable heaps to anything better at the time when it mattered to the Brit industry to design and develop (and being able to sell the thing when you’ve done it) on the British market.It’s just that those foreign manufacturers were luckier in having a more enlightened home market receptive to better products sooner and then used that to ttheir advantage when the Brit buyers did eventually come to their senses on power to weight ratios and comfort levels for their drivers.
But your ideas are’nt surprising being that your answer to the difference between driving something properly,as opposed to lugging the nuts off of a wagon,is OH.
I don’t think Johnnie was referring to North America when he started this thread Carryfast.You seem to have turned it into a Detroit versus UK battle ground.So odd and strange,a bit like life .
Cheers Dave.
Dave the Renegade:
I don’t think Johnnie was referring to North America when he started this thread Carryfast.You seem to have turned it into a Detroit versus UK battle ground.So odd and strange,a bit like life .
Cheers Dave.
Hi Dave you are correct there as I know nothing about yankee things at all I have never been there and never wanted to
My idea was to have a general discussion or dispute/argument/banter on the different merits of wagons throughout the last half century or so and how the industry and vehicles have evolved.
cheers Johnnie
Dave the Renegade:
I don’t think Johnnie was referring to North America when he started this thread Carryfast.You seem to have turned it into a Detroit versus UK battle ground.So odd and strange,a bit like life .
Cheers Dave.
Hi Dave you are correct there as I know nothing about yankee things at all I have never been there and never wanted to
My idea was to have a general discussion or dispute/argument/banter on the different merits of wagons throughout the last half century or so and how the industry and vehicles have evolved.
cheers Johnnie
Hi Johnnie,
I’m of the same opinion as yourself regarding American motors.I am always interested in the British and European/Scandinavian lorries.What fascinates me is the same as you,how they have evolved,as in the pic below.
The Bedford looks small up against the rest,also the F88 is smaller than the F10 and so on.
Cheers Dave.
old Cliff who taught me had a piece of hardwood 2x2 which was excellent ( though painful ) for making sure you concentrated on what you were doing, as he only told you once. I will say that he taught me a lot and kept me doing things the correct way for the rest of my lorry driving career.
