On a thread about Motec high Ercall, I have been writing about my experiences.
I thought I could explain our experiences with RTBI here.
When the levy of I believe 1.5% emolument arrived together with a massive bill we went mad, after all at that time we had about 60 employees and it was a massive amount of money. Money that, in our eyes that reduced the amount we could invest, and do so much with that would benefit our business.
First of all I had to find out what was emolument. As most people know government departments come up with all these technical names that baffle us.
It turned out that emolument was the total cost we occurred from employing all employees. I.e. gross wages, including holiday pay plus employer’s contribution National Insurance plus any expense payments (subsistence meal allowances etc.). The figures were extracted from our Annual accounts and we were charged accordingly.
Dad told me I had to sort it out and make sure we didn’t pay anything.
To put the levy into context the HGV driving licence had just been introduced and the government were concerned about training sufficient new drivers, and decided to tidy up all transport training in one fair scoop.
Also in our case to put into context, as I said we had about 60 employees at that time but when the last payroll was completed when we closed we had exactly 250 employees on the payroll, which by any measurement was a significant increase. We had several months before just added a vehicle that took our working fleet of HGVs up to 100. Plus several service vehicles and company cars, and about 40 trailers. (I have managed to list reg nos of 224 vehicles ran between 1961-1986, a list that is far from complete)(I also have listed 231 former employees with names being added regularly as more are identified)
From these figures it is obvious we would either have to pinch trained staff from other employers or train our own. The government’s attitude was everyone should take an equal responsibility in training staff and share the cost, so the levy was introduced so that those who didn’t train staff paid the levy so that that money could be set off against the cost of those who did not train.
As I said earlier I was told to sort out so this levy did not cost us and I will explain in later posts what I did and what happened.
Are you still at the caravan Eddie? Called round to see you yesterday (Tuesday) about 11:45 am. Would have been nice to chat again. Hope you are well, might catch you another time. Stay lucky, Ronnie.
I believe we always had a healthy attitude to training right from the 1920s. In my grandfather’s day it was easier because on every wagon or van operated he had a driver and a van lad, and it is hard to imagine that many of these joined him on leaving school at 13 years old. Knowing my grandfather, if anyone lasted till they were 17 they were good, hardworking lads and when they reached 17 they were encouraged to learn to drive In fact, my grandfather taught a few himself. Strangely, he was good at that, somehow displaying patience that never was seen in any other area of his life.
In my time I met three or four who passed through that process. Tommy Coates and Norman Snowball (Who will be remembered from several come onto this blog.) come to mind.
Long before anyone had started to consider the setting up of RTITB and levy on employers we had employed two or three apprentices in the vehicle workshops, Raymond Russell being the first. I cannot remember clearly but I am sure we got a grant provided an apprentship agreement had been signed by us and the youngster’s parents or guardians with the condition that they attended technical college by day release.
For my part I had always thought I would have carried on in the business well after my age at the moment and had hoped that my children Alexis and Paul joined me on completing their education. I always worried as how they would learn the trade, thinking that in these times they never would get the opportunity of experience in every area of the business as I did. However that was not to be as I never could have envisaged the closure of manufacturing that we experienced. In Spennymoor alone, Thorn domestic Appliances, (5,000 employees) Courtaulds (3000 employees) and Black and Decker (2500 employees) are no more, Also, although we did no work for them apart from removals of some of their key staff and a small office removal, Rothman’s also closed their Spennymoor plant.
I don’t know how I never read of the proposed levy, as I am sure it would have been in the press. Probably I thought it wouldn’t apply to us, but we were given a quick awakening when our first bill arrived. However long before that we got a rep (I cannot remember his name) from the RTITB called regularly to see me, but what he said, (mumbo Jumbo in my ears) went in one ear and out of the other.
I don’t know how many people remember the HGV licence being introduced but those who could prove experience automatically got a licence. However we had three, who, although were very experienced drivers did not as they had been involved in other trades such as PSV driving during the qualifying period. These people were allowed to continue driving for a period about 6 months and during that time they had to pass their test or stop driving.
Ray Hornby was a driver in this position who had been driving HGVs and PSVs for 25 years. He applied for his test and went along to the test centre and failed. It was a shock, as all working at that time who knew Ray also couldn’t understand. After all only about 4 years earlier he had passed his PSV test, and quite honestly if you were good enough to drive a bus, you should have been able to pass the HGV test. What could we do if people like Ray, although good drivers had fallen into bad habits like nearly all of us do?
About that time, as I said we had this RTITB rep calling regularly and he had a chap called THOM (I think) who was certainly ex-military who was starting Darlington Driver Training school and they wanted us to help finance with about another 20 hauliers and a huge grant from the government. We agreed and Ray Hornby was one of the first trainees on a week’s course, taking and passing his test on the Friday. The first of many. To be continued
As I explained we had a representative visit us regularly to tell us about the RTITB. He went on to open and manage Darlington Automotive Training Association, which was basically a school-workshop for apprentice mechanics in a building near the Test station in Darlington. The RTITB covered all transport training which obviously covered such things as car and commercial garages, and no doubt they had to pay levy as well. So at DATA as it became known, they would have trained vehicle technicians from both hauliers and ain dealer car and commercial franchises. I do wish I could remember the bloke’s name, but as he was well known in the industry someone reading this might remind me.
But I am going ahead of myself. Before this when the levy, or more to the point the first bill and threatening letters arrived on my desk I contacted the RTITB to complain and telling them that we already and always had done adequate training, and was told provided we produced adequate information we would either receive a grant (known as the block grant) which would cover the on the job training we did or if our training reached a reasonable standard we could be in fact made exempt from the levy. So I got them to send me the forms.
These arrived and like all government forms were pages after pages and like all government forms, although I passed English Language at ‘O level’, were in a language that was unfamiliar to me. Amongst the bits that I did understand was that for every employee we had to complete a job description.
For those who have heard the term working to rule, in industrial disputes this is where employees or rather sick union leaders read the job descriptions and tell their members not to do anything that is on the job description. How could I produce a job description for our drivers as we needed drivers to be resourceful and their work was so varied and different from say a run of the mill factory assembly worker. What would happen, for instance to a driver on a furniture removal that goes along to a house and encounters the situation that a baby grand piano has to be lowered out through an upstairs window? He would never find that on his job description, but we were fortunate in employing many remorseful staff who always one way or another would manage. Occasionally we got a telephone call requesting help and more staff, but never did a driver come back without completing his work.
Worse still I had to complete a Job Description for myself. I never knew from one minute to the next what I was doing. I had to be prepared to do anything that was necessary, from driving, meeting clients to running the company. I never had a nine to five job that had any degree of what would be considered routine, and I am sure that this was completely alien to everything understood to the legal and official brains that had been tasked with setting up the Toad Transport Industrial Training Board.
As I said I had on my desk tons of paperwork to be completed to enable us, at worse to get a ‘Block Grant’ to cover our ‘on the job training’ or at best exempt from the levy. And there it would have stayed in the heap of paperwork that lined the top of my massive semi-circular desk, which was, as everyone who knows me can confirm, completely untidy. However salvation was to arrive when I confronted the RTITB rep and he agreed to help me and sort things out for me.
To be continued.
I am enjoying your wisdom Carl. 
leylandlover:
I am enjoying your wisdom Carl.
Thanks Keylandlover,
Its difficult remembering the detail of what happened over 40 years ago, but srangley its all coming back, and I’ll be posting more tomorrow.
i am so pleased you are enjoying reading
Best wishes
Carl
There is a photo of one or your vans on Ebay MUP 577J.
andrewv8:
There is a photo of one or your vans on Ebay MUP 577J.
hi Andrew Thanks for telling me. Hopefully I might be able to buy a copy and put it on this thread.
Those vans got all over the place and there must be quite a few photos about, and I keep hoping for one to surface from time to time.
Best wishes
Carl
Before I explain what I did, with the help of the representative from RTITB to get exemption from the training levy I thought perhaps I should explain a little bit of the background and as to how I never realised we were going to be charged this training levy, until the invoice arrived.
Way back in the seventies we were in a period of time when the post was delivered early in a morning. In those days the Royal Mail, which I am sure was still inefficient and a harbour for laziness within its workforce, represented by extreme left wing trade union leaders, did realise it had to deliver a service tailored to its customers’ needs. I used to get into work each morning at 8-00AM, no doubt late by transport standards as most of our drivers had been long gone by that time, and on the corner of my desk I found the morning’s post.
Throughout the last twenty years of our business I, alone opened and dealt with the post. Unless something drastic had gone wrong it was the first thing I did when I went to work on a morning and by doing so I thought I kept my finger on the trigger, as everything that happened one way or another passed through the post, either by bills, payments coming in or letters of complaint etc. Although we had telex, and the last four years fax, nothing ever was faxed or sent by telex that was specifically important and in those days they tended just to be used for operational matters. Opening the post I could read and know everything that was going on and sort into who in the office dealt with each matter having it ready for the office staff as they came in on a morning. I would then walk round and give the appropriate letters out and of course say good morning to everyone.
During my years I took only about five one week holidays only taking the occasional extended weekend away, so on the comer of my desk the post was piled up waiting for my return.
However there was always letters that needed in some way for me to deal with, also the numerous letters from government department with questionnaires surveys etc. These I put on a heap I had, or as they accumulated various heaps on my desk.
Dad and I shared a very large office where at either side we had very large circular desks, and another quarter we had a three piece suite with a large coffee table where we could seat customers and guests in an informal matter to discuss thing and talk. Dad, like me was a Virgo, and a perfectionist. (I was with others but certainly not with myself) and he hated the utter untidiness of my desk, constantly complaining. On the other hand as he hated offices and never had much on his desk, he had it easy, with nothing to keep tidy.
In my case, I worked on the heap filing system. I.e. if it came in and was not important , in my eyes and often something I thought would go away if I left it went onto those heaps, and if ever I needed to find it, knowing how long it had been since being sent I knew roughly how deep to look. Certainly before the invoice for the training levy arrived and the follow up demand letters came anything from RTITB would have gone into my heap filing system. I blame my father for the philosophy of my heap system as one piece of advice he always gave, which daftly was not so daft was that if you got a bill for the payment of any taxes, don’t pay it till they are threatening to almost take you to prison, or they will think you have too much money and charge you more. So all tax bills and in fact anything from local authorities and government departments went on my heaps, and as you can imagine it used to get to the stage that I had difficulty finding space on my desk to write.
Either when the desk was full or we had important customers coming to visit and I got a severe warning from dad to tidy up my desk, because what would they think if they saw such a mess, would I then put everything in the heap order into cardboard boxes and have the taken into our archives store, so that if ever I needed I could find them. However that was more or less never needed as if I had anyone contact me saying I hadn’t dealt with anything, I would say send me a copy as I have never received it. It must have been lost in the post. Note I always dealt with recorded delivery letters as there was proof I had received them. The other thing I found over my years at Spennymoor was how utterly useless were the majority of solicitors. From time to time we received letters from solicitors mainly from claims we had not dealt with. In all cases these were matters I considered were not genuine and had gone into my heaps. In every case I remember, with the exception of items such as unfair dismissal and legal matters that were progressing to court stage I dealt with them myself, and I cannot remember one instance when I haven’t been able to out argue any solicitor and they have gone away.
I never completed a government survey or even those stupid ones that were statutory, which we regularly received, until they eventually sent people to see me with their various threats. I always sat them down and answered their questions so they could fill in their own daft surveys. At least half were never completed and no one ever bothered. However I remember umpteen surveys asking for information on European removals we had done. It would have taken more time to fill them in that we had taken in doing the work. RTITB had fallen into that category.
I will tell next how the matter was corrected and how we got exception to the levy.
We had been founder members of Darlington Driver Training, and as I explained it was set up by a chap called Thom, who might well have been ex military, although he did employ all ex lorry drivers who were sent to MOTEc and trained as HGV instructors. Amongst this intake was Dennis Gooder.
Dennis Gooder had worked; I am almost sure for Spinks at Darlington, as a HGV driver. Out of the original intake at Darlington Driver Training, he must have shown the most aptitude as he was trained at MOTEC as a Training Officer, and within the first year of Darlington Driver Training as Training officer, replacing MR Thom, who obviously must have been a short appointment by RTITB to get the organisation going.
I have read criticism of RTITB saying that the instructors were all ex-military who didn’t have a clue and had never worked in the real industry. This certainly was not the case with Darlington Driver training, as all were lorry drivers who had taken, for one reason or the other the option of what many would consider an easier 9 to 5 life. Over the years I got to know Dennis Gooder quite well and considered him to be a great bloke who made sure pupils received the best in tuition, with an unrivalled pass rate of 98%. I suppose, if Dennis is still with us , he will be very old today, and would be interested if anyone reading this has any information of what happened to him, after his days at Darlington.
The representative who assisted me get exemption from the Training levy went on to form DATA,(Darlington Apprentice Training Association., which the last time I was round near Darlington Test Station, where they were based was still going, although with a bit of training in the Road Haulage field of apprentice technicians was more focused on Main Dealership workshop training.
He soon completed job descriptions for the various jobs carried out by our employees and a training plan. Although when I read them they were accurate but not too specific so that they covered our workers, it was something written in the language understood by civil service and would have been near impossible for me to write or fully understand (gobbledygook) We also needed a fully trained and qualified training officer, but like with CPC holders for owner drivers, who did not qualify themselves, it did not need to be a full time and with our agreement when DDTS was formed Dennis Gooder took that title on our behalf. The in house training which was in fact what we had always done was formalised given descriptions that exaggerated the description. Induction Training for example was still, here is the driver’s rest room, and over there where you see the smoke from constant cigarette smoke is Harry Williams, who will tell you what to do.
That was the formalities over with and with our On the Job Training and a formal training plan which was not too difficult to stick to we qualified for levy exemption. I still had to pay the first year’s levy, but certainly no more.
Thanks Carl,however you have just spoiled Bewick,s whole day. 
sorry 
leylandlover:
Thanks Carl,however you have just spoiled Bewick,s whole day.
Well,“leylandlover” I’m pleased to say that after reading the Williams post I havn’t changed my opinion one iota about the RTITB and what they imposed on the hire and reward transport industry.From reading the post it’s quite obvious that we are talking about two entirely different operations.I have no wish to go into the sort of differences as that should be obvious to those that understand.But as I’ve previously said I didn’t have either the time or the inclination to ■■■■ about “chewing the fat” with an RTITB “jobs worth” civil servant,I had a haulage business to run that demanded my constant efforts and consentration 
So still as far as I’m concerned the RTITB levy was just another blood sucking tax on an already hard pressed industry,and nothing and no-body will ever convince otherwise. 
Cheers Bewick.
leylandlover:
Thanks Carl,however you have just spoiled Bewick,s whole day.
Hi Leylandlover,
To put things into prospective.
In 1960, when Thorn started manufacturing fridges under the Tricity brand in Spennymoor, it was a shot in the arm for our business. In the year 1960 very few homes had fridges in their kitchen, and by the late 60s 80% of homes did and one in three of those fridges had been carried by us from manufacture to either wholesalers or retail outlets.
Anyone who remembers on a Sunday morning, in the early sixties seeing the double page adverts for the Rolls twin tub washing machines for sale at £39 or the deluxe model for £59 would not have realised that every one of these washing machines were delivered by our vehicles from a factory in Newton Aycliffe called Tallent Engineering to the spiders web of small warehouses, leased by John Bloom where his self-employed salesmen came and picked up machine after machine, to sell to the public without them passing through shops.
These were just two of our customers at the time and again to put things into prospective in 1970 Thorn Domestic Appliances Ltd or whichever subsidy company that was allocated to pay for the transport (Sometimes the manufacturing division, sometimes the wholesale sales division) never owed us less than £1million pounds.(A lot of money in those days)
So by any measurement by the time the government decided to levy transport operators for training we had a relatively large workforce and wages bill compared with the other hauliers in the North East, and to say the least it came as a shock. I have to agree with Berwick as I certainly saw it as an additional tax that was unnecessary.
However things were changing in the haulage world. We had in recent years had plating and testing introduced, which in fairness to us didn’t make too much difference, as we always had our vehicles well maintained, but then came along the HGV driving licence, and later on the Operator’s licence with potential greater competition with new entrants to the industry and the CPC, which again did not affect us as both myself and my father were given International Certificates, and we also had about four members of staff who also from previous employments had them, but for some operators training to pass CPC was needed.
The then government took the view rightly or wrongly that organised training was needed in the industry and it had to be paid for, hence the levy and like it or not it was no good standing against the tide like King Canute, as we could never win.
We were dramatically expanding throughout the years the RTITB functioned and also every operator had over a prolonged period of time drivers retiring and in fact dyeing. (We had a driver who died of a heart attack at the wheel, and two died whilst working in our depot), so one way or other some training had to be done. Without the levy we would one way or another done this if the levy had not been introduced, but it was and like many laws and taxes imposed by successive governments we might not like them but have to live with them. One such thing was the Disabled Discrimination Act that came along about the same time as the training levy, and we were unfortunate enough to have sufficient employees to fall into that act, and this is something else we had to deal with, which I will explain at another time.
For my part, I was lucky we dealt with the Training levy and exemption without it taking any effort or time from myself thanks to the help I received from a RTITB employee. Today with the internet and Google we could simply have found such things as training plans, job descriptions etc. and printed them off, but in those days without the help, and putting things into ‘their language’ I too would never have got exemption.
MUP577J Bedford KF 330 cu in diesel engine with Marsden Integral fibreglass pantechchnicon body with wheel boxes drop well, underslung tailboard and roller shutter above.
MUP577J and MUP578J followed by NUP856J registered about a month later were the last three of many of this specification Bedford KF Marsden Pantechnicons ordered. Subsequent Bedfords were longer with 466cu in Bedford diesel engines. In this photo MUP577J had been repainted as new phone number showing from orriginal livery. I would therefore suspect it was then over 10 years old. If anyone knows the location of the photo I would appreciate that information.
It is nice to see a photo of a working vehicle, which I think on this instance was on the South Coast. I am also pleased it is clean, unfortunate about the rusty front bumper.
Carl Williams:
MUP577J Bedford KF 330 cu in diesel engine with Marsden Integral fibreglass pantechchnicon body with wheel boxes drop well, underslung tailboard and roller shutter above.
MUP577J and MUP578J followed by NUP856J registered about a month later were the last three of many of this specification Bedford KF Marsden Pantechnicons ordered. Subsequent Bedfords were longer with 466cu in Bedford diesel engines. In this photo MUP577J had been repainted as new phone number showing from orriginal livery. I would therefore suspect it was then over 10 years old. If anyone knows the location of the photo I would appreciate that information.
It is nice to see a photo of a working vehicle, which I think on this instance was on the South Coast. I am also pleased it is clean, unfortunate about the rusty front bumper.
I can remember trying to climb in these without showing my knickers
825christineh:
Carl Williams:
MUP577J Bedford KF 330 cu in diesel engine with Marsden Integral fibreglass pantechchnicon body with wheel boxes drop well, underslung tailboard and roller shutter above.
MUP577J and MUP578J followed by NUP856J registered about a month later were the last three of many of this specification Bedford KF Marsden Pantechnicons ordered. Subsequent Bedfords were longer with 466cu in Bedford diesel engines. In this photo MUP577J had been repainted as new phone number showing from orriginal livery. I would therefore suspect it was then over 10 years old. If anyone knows the location of the photo I would appreciate that information.
It is nice to see a photo of a working vehicle, which I think on this instance was on the South Coast. I am also pleased it is clean, unfortunate about the rusty front bumper.I can remember trying to climb in these without showing my knickers
hiya,
Got any photo’s Christine??.
thanks harry, long retired.
Hi christine and Harry,
I think the reply to this comes under the ‘Disabled Discrimination Act’ which I will be coming onto next week. I am having to give great thought as to how I explain my thinking on this subject, as I don’t want people to think I am a pervert, but I had responsiblities to see things like Christine described carrying on to make sure the contentment of our drivers waiting in the drivers’ rest room, and looking out of the windows continued, and ensuring that they maintained their good manners in assisting Christine and others getting into vans to get a lift home. It wouldn’t have been acceptable, would it, if our female office staff were unable to wear their short skirts, if we had employed disabled people, would it?
Carl
Carl Williams:
Hi christine and Harry,I think the reply to this comes under the ‘Disabled Discrimination Act’ which I will be coming onto next week. I am having to give great thought as to how I explain my thinking on this subject, as I don’t want people to think I am a pervert, but I had responsiblities to see things like Christine described carrying on to make sure the contentment of our drivers waiting in the drivers’ rest room, and looking out of the windows continued, and ensuring that they maintained their good manners in assisting Christine and others getting into vans to get a lift home. It wouldn’t have been acceptable, would it, if our female office staff were unable to wear their short skirts, if we had employed disabled people, would it?
Carl
hiya,
That’s put me in my place Carl, obviously should have been in your drivers
tea cabin at the correct time on a Friday afternoon, ah’ well too late now.
thanks harry, long retired.
In 1974 we were approached by Steinberg Ltd to provide a vehicle to do a trunk changeover with another vehicle they owned. They had factories at Milton Keynes (where they were based) and West Auckland Near Bishop Auckland near us.Alexon was one of their trade names. An agreement was made and AEC Mercury tractor units were chosen as the prime movers. We put on NUP647M seen below, and the tractor in the photo was theirs. We ran down to Trowel service area on M1 where they travelled to from Milton Keynes and exchanged trailers.
Both these vehicles hadn’t any problems apart from tyre wear in the five years they were operated on this work. At the end of 5 years it was decided to change over to 32 ton GVW tractor units. We chose an ERF with Gardiner 180 and they chose a Seddon Atkinson, again with a Gardiner 180. Again the ERF had no problems at all during the next five years, however I understand the Seddon-Atkinson had quite a few problems and on more than one occasion we had to extend our journey to where they had broken down.
NUP647M was repainted in our cream/brown livery and used in our general fleet until we stopped trading, during that time doing quite a high mileage with no major repairs, totally reliable.
