It must have been taken about 1968 aprox as 1372UP has been repainted with our name in brown rectangle on front of Luton.
Anyone who has not watched video it is well worth watching, but I would appreciate if anyone can tel me if it is possible to freeze frame and copy, as I certainly would like a copy of this photo of 1372UP
Looking at the video again, it looks as though the Mercedes in front of the van could have been dad’s first Maercedes (which was cream). I surpose it is possible that dad had travelled down to Derby to meet the driver of 1372UP and it would have been typical of Dad if he had rang Atkins to arrange to meet a driver there, as their depot and truck stop was so central for the Midlands.
Peter, if you read this I need your help. Do you recognise the car?
Hi Carl, This one was a bit of a brain tease. Ouch!
The car in the photograph certainly looks like your dads Mercedes but I remember it being a pale Primrose Yellow rather than cream (not that you can tell from a black & white photo) so for this reason I don’t think it was your dad’s as this one looks too “White”. I am sure his car was ‘M’ registered which, if it was your dad’s, would then date the photograph 1973 onwards. The registration which comes to mind is NUP 977M but I could be wrong. Def “M” registered because I married in 1972 and he had the red Rover 3500: JUP 107H then. Your dad kept the Mercedes until 1976 and then this was replaced with a blue Mercedes 280.
Was it this car you took to the continent taking Malcolm Marsden with you on holiday but returned alone Could help with dating the car if you knew which year that was.
Peter
Peter…I would not have got out of Spennymoor with that goon, when he was Chief Estimator his words, for WHW at Green Lane he went to look at a removal before me, when I arrived he had gone (just as well) and the people said I was quoting against WHW and someone else (I cannot remember now) when I said to the people, no problem at least you have another good firm with WHW, the bloke informed me that Malcolm Marsden had done nothing but slag me and my business down, on arriving home I found his home number and phoned him on that evening, of course he denied having said that, but he swallowed the bait when I said if you are calling me a cowboy then WHW must be one to, having nearly choked himself he asked how I could say that, I then informed everything I knew about furniture removals and transport was learnt from WHW, when I informed him I might call and see Harry about what he had said, he was so sorry that I had took it the wrong way?
Eddie
Eddy
How true Norma Kay now Gornall a real true girl i was only 16years & my first job in the Co-op she called a spade a spade wa Norma, John worked with my older brother @ Whitworth pit & i had just got my test passed in a 1947 Austin 10 @ 17years when i drove my two mates up to the Trossachs camping but with heavy rain i headed south to Blackpool but the engine conked.
John towed us back to Chilton in his 2.4 Jaguar a lovely motor i never forgot it.
John has a great assortment of old trucks & cars & i saw Norma only recently & she never mentioned him so he must be OK.
Norma’s brother worked for John as Transport Manager then went to i believe Allison’s Darlington.
A driver called Alan Guy worked for John Gornall & he used to stay as we did in Farnworth Bolton but we all got a shock when he
was killed on the M1 @ Chesterfield a really nice lad he left a wife & young child.
Eddy i have seen your Ancestry page & its well put together.
Gordon
Carl
Drivers Dave Harland a big strapping man from Crook he died probably 1980 when he was with us @ the time of death, Paul Sandford from Chilton he committed suicide.
The others Genghis Khan no name small long black hair & long black mustache, Nick the Greek a Mancunian no name but surely someone will put a name to them how about it Peter or Christine?
Christine…How is your brother (cannot remember his name) use to have a good gossip with him when he came into the shop, give him is due for a young lad from spenny going down the pit at Easington some kids would have run like the clappers, if you see him tell him I am asking after him please.
Eddie
Hi Eddie. After being a van lad for a short time at WHW our Trev went down the pit and was there until they closed down. He also worked at Dawdon and Vane Tempest. He’s a tanker driver now and down the road from Mon to Fri. which, he says, is the way he likes it. He works hard but he always was a grafter. He can remember you cos he asked after the reunion. I’ll tell him you’re asking after him. Chris
It must have been taken about 1968 aprox as 1372UP has been repainted with our name in brown rectangle on front of Luton.
Anyone who has not watched video it is well worth watching, but I would appreciate if anyone can tel me if it is possible to freeze frame and copy, as I certainly would like a copy of this photo of 1372UP
Looking at the video again, it looks as though the Mercedes in front of the van could have been dad’s first Maercedes (which was cream). I surpose it is possible that dad had travelled down to Derby to meet the driver of 1372UP and it would have been typical of Dad if he had rang Atkins to arrange to meet a driver there, as their depot and truck stop was so central for the Midlands.
Peter, if you read this I need your help. Do you recognise the car?
Hi Carl, This one was a bit of a brain tease. Ouch!
The car in the photograph certainly looks like your dads Mercedes but I remember it being a pale Primrose Yellow rather than cream (not that you can tell from a black & white photo) so for this reason I don’t think it was your dad’s as this one looks too “White”. I am sure his car was ‘M’ registered which, if it was your dad’s, would then date the photograph 1973 onwards. The registration which comes to mind is NUP 977M but I could be wrong. Def “M” registered because I married in 1972 and he had the red Rover 3500: JUP 107H then. Your dad kept the Mercedes until 1976 and then this was replaced with a blue Mercedes 280.
Was it this car you took to the continent taking Malcolm Marsden with you on holiday but returned alone Could help with dating the car if you knew which year that was.
Peter
Peter…I would not have got out of Spennymoor with that goon, when he was Chief Estimator his words, for WHW at Green Lane he went to look at a removal before me, when I arrived he had gone (just as well) and the people said I was quoting against WHW and someone else (I cannot remember now) when I said to the people, no problem at least you have another good firm with WHW, the bloke informed me that Malcolm Marsden had done nothing but slag me and my business down, on arriving home I found his home number and phoned him on that evening, of course he denied having said that, but he swallowed the bait when I said if you are calling me a cowboy then WHW must be one to, having nearly choked himself he asked how I could say that, I then informed everything I knew about furniture removals and transport was learnt from WHW, when I informed him I might call and see Harry about what he had said, he was so sorry that I had took it the wrong way?
Eddie
Hi Eddie
There would have been a lot of trouble for Malcolm had dad heard.
Two rules he had was never try to run down competitors and never give the excuse that a van had broken down if we were running late.
Malcolm Marsden was estimator for Spennymoor and Sunderland offices. Patrick Cavagner was estimator of Newcastle office, and in fairness Malcolm was under a lot of pressure.
As you know our area between Catterick and Chester Le Street was very competitive and prices were cheap. In Newcastle, area there was a lot more money and we traded in a higher market. In fact places like Darras hall expected to pay approximately twice as much as say someone in Bishop Auckland. So Newcastle was much better job. Also the personalities Pat had a way with married women. The drivers came back saying they couldn’t understand what he had but women seemed fascinated by him and were always asking if he would be calling to see how they were getting on.
I was also looking through how many enquires we had each week and looking at the percentage conversions into sales, and Malcolm was fully aware that I had sacked his predecessor, David Dalrymple because he had not got good enough results. However that still didn’t give him the excuse for trying to run others down and worse still in my eyes that reeked of desperation.
One thing we did find that if Spennymoor area was down market against Newcastle, Sunderand was worse. Opening the Newcastle office had been a huge success, because we could charge nearly twice as much and had got a name in the top end of the market, and we thought we could probably achieve the same in Sunderland, but the prices there were absolute crap. In farness Malcolm spent a lot of time and effort into looking into opening a travel agents in Sunderland office, which was well situated amongst all the estate agents and solicitors, and had we not have had the problems with the haulage side at Spennymoor, with what I would consider unfair competition from John Dee, who knows how that might have developed.
As it happened Malcolm was promoted to Mail Order manager, spending his entire time meeting and dealing with the mail order companies, and dad gave the estimators job to Kenny Thrower of all people.
I will over the next week or so tell a few stories of Newcastle Office and our dealings with Hoults and Pickfords which I am sure will interest you, in particular, but will also be good reading for the followers of this thread
Hi Carl…Found a great photo about haulage in the early days (horses) nothing to do with any of us but when I have it ready will put it on thread for all to see I think in fact I’m sure it will cause some comments…Christine, thats him Trevor, pleased he is doing well he deserves it, know wonder he likes being away he’ll feel free as a bird after working down them S… holes, I can say that because I did my training for the pits at Tursdale and worked at Whitworth Park before Harry saved me,HALALUJA
Eddie
edworth:
If your Dad had caught you flogging the Merc, you would have been driving this ,just think what he could have packed into a furniture van:D
Eddie
Hi Eddie
Great photo,
I surpose carts pulled by horses were often loaded like that. I pitty the poor horses, but the roads must have been better in those days as I don’t think those wheels would stand today’s pot holes.
however in 1909 and 1910 my great grandfather and grandad (seen on photo, a lot younger than you will remember,took this chipvan to the Town Moor Fare (the Hoppings) for two years. It weighed two ton.
Also I remember being told that ■■■■■■, grandad’s horse in 1919-26 went lame and they hired ■■■■ berryman’s to take the cart out with the last load of groceries we delivered by horse and cart. Dad said Berryman’s horse was not very fit and couldn’t pull the cart away after stopping partly up Dobbies bank and so they had to go and get ■■■■■■ (Walking on three legs). Taking Berryman’s horse off and putting ■■■■■■ on with one great pull off the cart went up the bank using his three legs. He then was lead home and back to the stable, until collected to go to be slaughtered. dad said grandad was broken hearted and it was the only time he could recollect him crying.
edworth:
If your Dad had caught you flogging the Merc, you would have been driving this ,just think what he could have packed into a furniture van:D
Eddie0
Eddie, isn’t this Mr Robinson from Tudhoe doing his removal when we refused to do his house move after he was abusive to us?? He did say he could do better with a horse and cart.
Peter
Hi Carl, can you remember that photo I brought in when I worked at WHW of your grandad and my great uncle Jack with the horse drawn van. After he’d seen the photo he wanted to meet me and I went down to the house at Marmaduke St. He was really pleased to meet me as I was a relative of his good friend Jack Knight. I’ve tried to find this photo since as I know you’d be interested to see it again but it must have got lost over the years. Chris
825christineh:
Hi Carl, can you remember that photo I brought in when I worked at WHW of your grandad and my great uncle Jack with the horse drawn van. After he’d seen the photo he wanted to meet me and I went down to the house at Marmaduke St. He was really pleased to meet me as I was a relative of his good friend Jack Knight. I’ve tried to find this photo since as I know you’d be interested to see it again but it must have got lost over the years. Chris
Hi Christine,
I don’t remember the photo, and would be very interested in seeing it again; however I know the story of Jacky Knight from both my grandfather and dad.
Jacky was my grandfather’s friend, probably from school days and a natural comedian. One Monday in the mid-thirties he was at Darlington Mart with my grandfather and dad. It was before dad started driving and from what I can understand whilst granddad went round the mart meeting and talking to the Butchers and Farmers Jacky and Dad had the job of putting the cattle, pigs and sheep in pens, mark them with WHW mark, ready for our cattle trucks to deliver to the butchers slaughter houses.
To put everyone in the picture. In those days drivers started at about five o’clock in the morning collected their wagons from Marmaduke Street and went round the farms collecting their loads of cattle and took them to the mart. Granddad would travel in his Rover and be there to meet them, making sure they were there before the ballot to be entered in the auction. The wagons had been built up as cattle trucks the night before and after making their deliveries to the mart returned to Spennymoor and were broken down into either drop siders or platforms and then did their days work delivering groceries doing removals etc., returning to marmaduke Street and rebuilt into cattle trucks and returning to Darlington Mart and collecting their loads of cattle to deliver to the butchers. A long day for the drivers after starting at 5-00am often finishing as late as 10-00Pm. No log sheets or drivers hours in those days.
This particular Monday when they had a bit time Dad and Jacky Knight had walked down into the middle of Darlington to a hardware shop that sold tools and items situated near the market place which was run by a Quaker family. Although the Quakers were very serious dad said even with them he could see the outline of a smile developing on their faces as Jacky knight joked on. The reason they had gone to this shop was that they had been sent by my grandfather to get some white ribbon as he was using his car for a wedding on the following Saturday and needed white ribbon to decorate the bonnet. Jacky had picked up some rope and was joking, so dad thought, as how it would be ideal for someone to hang themselves with.
They all went home and next morning granddad got a message that Jacky was dead and had committed suicide. Apparently he had returned to Darlington and drowned himself in the Skerne in three inches of water. The sad thing was there were scratch marks in the mud where just before he died he had tried to pull himself out.
A month or two earlier my granddad had his fortune told. Three things were mentioned. 1. My Grandmother was seriously ill and needed urgent medical help. Granddad said that was rubbish. 2. He had to tell my grandmother to spend more time with her mother as she would not live much longer. 3. He would be in a building and would look up and see a large glass dome above his head. He would be asked if he had anything to say and he would be wise to say nothing.
He went home and told my grandmother, who told him she was feeling very ill. To cut a long story short he arranged that Sir Harvey Evers, a specialist who operated on members of the royal family came to 14 Marmaduke street Spennymoor, examined my grandmother and carried out an emergency hysterectomy in her own bed, there and then saying if he did not she would die. My great grandmother, as predicted died about three months later. The final part that was predicted was that he was summoned to attend Jackie Knight’s death inquest by the Coroner that took place in Darlington. Granddad knew that Jacky Knight’s wife had had many affairs and he was very depressed as a result. As he sat he looked up and saw the dome and when asked said he knew no reason. Talking about it afterwards he said what was to be achieved. Jacky was dead and had left a family of children some quite young. ‘Would they want to know their dad killed himself because of their mam?’ he said afterwards. He decided not.
edworth:
If your Dad had caught you flogging the Merc, you would have been driving this ,just think what he could have packed into a furniture van:D
Eddie0
Eddie, isn’t this Mr Robinson from Tudhoe doing his removal when we refused to do his house move after he was abusive to us?? He did say he could do better with a horse and cart.
Peter
Yes Carl, you are correct about my great uncle Jack and his suicide. He’d also tried to gas himself which was unsuccessful. I’ve been told he came back from the war a changed man although he hid it very well with his joking ways. I’ve also been told about his wife and her affairs which depressed him immensely. He was my grandad’s older brother but my grandad wouldn’t talk about it but my mother told me. A sad story. Chris
825christineh:
Hi Carl, can you remember that photo I brought in when I worked at WHW of your grandad and my great uncle Jack with the horse drawn van. After he’d seen the photo he wanted to meet me and I went down to the house at Marmaduke St. He was really pleased to meet me as I was a relative of his good friend Jack Knight. I’ve tried to find this photo since as I know you’d be interested to see it again but it must have got lost over the years. Chris
Hi Christine,
I don’t remember the photo, and would be very interested in seeing it again; however I know the story of Jacky Knight from both my grandfather and dad.
Jacky was my grandfather’s friend, probably from school days and a natural comedian. One Monday in the mid-thirties he was at Darlington Mart with my grandfather and dad. It was before dad started driving and from what I can understand whilst granddad went round the mart meeting and talking to the Butchers and Farmers Jacky and Dad had the job of putting the cattle, pigs and sheep in pens, mark them with WHW mark, ready for our cattle trucks to deliver to the butchers slaughter houses.
To put everyone in the picture. In those days drivers started at about five o’clock in the morning collected their wagons from Marmaduke Street and went round the farms collecting their loads of cattle and took them to the mart. Granddad would travel in his Rover and be there to meet them, making sure they were there before the ballot to be entered in the auction. The wagons had been built up as cattle trucks the night before and after making their deliveries to the mart returned to Spennymoor and were broken down into either drop siders or platforms and then did their days work delivering groceries doing removals etc., returning to marmaduke Street and rebuilt into cattle trucks and returning to Darlington Mart and collecting their loads of cattle to deliver to the butchers. A long day for the drivers after starting at 5-00am often finishing as late as 10-00Pm. No log sheets or drivers hours in those days.
This particular Monday when they had a bit time Dad and Jacky Knight had walked down into the middle of Darlington to a hardware shop that sold tools and items situated near the market place which was run by a Quaker family. Although the Quakers were very serious dad said even with them he could see the outline of a smile developing on their faces as Jacky knight joked on. The reason they had gone to this shop was that they had been sent by my grandfather to get some white ribbon as he was using his car for a wedding on the following Saturday and needed white ribbon to decorate the bonnet. Jacky had picked up some rope and was joking, so dad thought, as how it would be ideal for someone to hang themselves with.
They all went home and next morning granddad got a message that Jacky was dead and had committed suicide. Apparently he had returned to Darlington and drowned himself in the Skerne in three inches of water. The sad thing was there were scratch marks in the mud where just before he died he had tried to pull himself out.
A month or two earlier my granddad had his fortune told. Three things were mentioned. 1. My Grandmother was seriously ill and needed urgent medical help. Granddad said that was rubbish. 2. He had to tell my grandmother to spend more time with her mother as she would not live much longer. 3. He would be in a building and would look up and see a large glass dome above his head. He would be asked if he had anything to say and he would be wise to say nothing.
He went home and told my grandmother, who told him she was feeling very ill. To cut a long story short he arranged that Sir Harvey Evers, a specialist who operated on members of the royal family came to 14 Marmaduke street Spennymoor, examined my grandmother and carried out an emergency hysterectomy in her own bed, there and then saying if he did not she would die. My great grandmother, as predicted died about three months later. The final part that was predicted was that he was summoned to attend Jackie Knight’s death inquest by the Coroner that took place in Darlington. Granddad knew that Jacky Knight’s wife had had many affairs and he was very depressed as a result. As he sat he looked up and saw the dome and when asked said he knew no reason. Talking about it afterwards he said what was to be achieved. Jacky was dead and had left a family of children some quite young. ‘Would they want to know their dad killed himself because of their mam?’ he said afterwards. He decided not.
Carl
That is a brilliant story, I wonder if Ozzy Broomfield learn’t the saying from your Grandad when he worked for him "If you can’t say now’t good about someone,say "Now,t) he always said that…I remember as a wagon lad with your Dad, when we passed a old lad in Spennymoor your Dad always said he was a great bloke and you could tell he thought a lot about him, think his name was Birch or something similar…Eddie.
825christineh:
Hi Carl, can you remember that photo I brought in when I worked at WHW of your grandad and my great uncle Jack with the horse drawn van. After he’d seen the photo he wanted to meet me and I went down to the house at Marmaduke St. He was really pleased to meet me as I was a relative of his good friend Jack Knight. I’ve tried to find this photo since as I know you’d be interested to see it again but it must have got lost over the years. Chris
Hi Christine,
I don’t remember the photo, and would be very interested in seeing it again; however I know the story of Jacky Knight from both my grandfather and dad.
Jacky was my grandfather’s friend, probably from school days and a natural comedian. One Monday in the mid-thirties he was at Darlington Mart with my grandfather and dad. It was before dad started driving and from what I can understand whilst granddad went round the mart meeting and talking to the Butchers and Farmers Jacky and Dad had the job of putting the cattle, pigs and sheep in pens, mark them with WHW mark, ready for our cattle trucks to deliver to the butchers slaughter houses.
To put everyone in the picture. In those days drivers started at about five o’clock in the morning collected their wagons from Marmaduke Street and went round the farms collecting their loads of cattle and took them to the mart. Granddad would travel in his Rover and be there to meet them, making sure they were there before the ballot to be entered in the auction. The wagons had been built up as cattle trucks the night before and after making their deliveries to the mart returned to Spennymoor and were broken down into either drop siders or platforms and then did their days work delivering groceries doing removals etc., returning to marmaduke Street and rebuilt into cattle trucks and returning to Darlington Mart and collecting their loads of cattle to deliver to the butchers. A long day for the drivers after starting at 5-00am often finishing as late as 10-00Pm. No log sheets or drivers hours in those days.
This particular Monday when they had a bit time Dad and Jacky Knight had walked down into the middle of Darlington to a hardware shop that sold tools and items situated near the market place which was run by a Quaker family. Although the Quakers were very serious dad said even with them he could see the outline of a smile developing on their faces as Jacky knight joked on. The reason they had gone to this shop was that they had been sent by my grandfather to get some white ribbon as he was using his car for a wedding on the following Saturday and needed white ribbon to decorate the bonnet. Jacky had picked up some rope and was joking, so dad thought, as how it would be ideal for someone to hang themselves with.
They all went home and next morning granddad got a message that Jacky was dead and had committed suicide. Apparently he had returned to Darlington and drowned himself in the Skerne in three inches of water. The sad thing was there were scratch marks in the mud where just before he died he had tried to pull himself out.
A month or two earlier my granddad had his fortune told. Three things were mentioned. 1. My Grandmother was seriously ill and needed urgent medical help. Granddad said that was rubbish. 2. He had to tell my grandmother to spend more time with her mother as she would not live much longer. 3. He would be in a building and would look up and see a large glass dome above his head. He would be asked if he had anything to say and he would be wise to say nothing.
He went home and told my grandmother, who told him she was feeling very ill. To cut a long story short he arranged that Sir Harvey Evers, a specialist who operated on members of the royal family came to 14 Marmaduke street Spennymoor, examined my grandmother and carried out an emergency hysterectomy in her own bed, there and then saying if he did not she would die. My great grandmother, as predicted died about three months later. The final part that was predicted was that he was summoned to attend Jackie Knight’s death inquest by the Coroner that took place in Darlington. Granddad knew that Jacky Knight’s wife had had many affairs and he was very depressed as a result. As he sat he looked up and saw the dome and when asked said he knew no reason. Talking about it afterwards he said what was to be achieved. Jacky was dead and had left a family of children some quite young. ‘Would they want to know their dad killed himself because of their mam?’ he said afterwards. He decided not.
Carl
That is a brilliant story, I wonder if Ozzy Broomfield learn’t the saying from your Grandad when he worked for him "If you can’t say now’t good about someone,say "Now,t) he always said that…I remember as a wagon lad with your Dad, when we passed a old lad in Spennymoor your Dad always said he was a great bloke and you could tell he thought a lot about him, think his name was Birch or something similar…Eddie.
Hi Eddie
That would be Jack Birch, who retired in 1952 aged 65 after working for my granddad for 30 years. So he must have been one of his first employees, from about 1922. Dad said he learnt everything he knew from Jack Birch. And yet Jack never drove put was more what today would be described as a porter. Yet he was so much more, more of a king pin in the makeup of the business.
Apart from vehicle mechanical repairs which he didn’t understand Jack did everything. Before the garage that you and I know was built in Marmaduke Street, granddad had bought a wooden chapel from Hunwick, I believe. It was a fine wooden building when Granddad bought it and had hoped it could be dismantled piece by piece and reassembled at the site in Marmaduke Street. However when they went to pick it up it had been taken apart and stood like a heap of firewood. It was Jack Birch who was given the job of figuring out how it had been assembled and erect it and modify the front with garage doors to enable vehicle access.
I have told earlier how following the changeover to Morris, Ford , Chev and later Bedford 2 tonners, in about 1925, bodywork had been devised to make a cattle truck that could in 20 minutes be stripped down into dropsiders and then onto platform wagon. Grandfather always claimed that this was to his design and idea. However from what dad said, although the first and subsequent were all built by professional body builders; it was Jack that told them what was required and how to build.
As far as removals were concerned originally they used platform wagons and roped and sheeted loads which according to dad were loaded up to wardrobe height, ant then as far up again with the beds on top to square up to facilitate sheeting. Jack taught everyone how to do it so there was no damage, and if you checked the DNA of how we did a removal Jack’s input would be there. Problems of moving items like very heavy safes were always supervised by him, and dad had the highest regard for him.
Jack lived in Lyn Road Middlestone Moor, and I often called with dad to see how he was. Often, when we lived in Grayson Road, dad invited him in on a Sunday Morning for a cup of tea if he caught him walking past down to Spennymoor.
Could help with dating the car if you knew which year that was.
![cHIP%20vAN%201[1].jpg](https://europe1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/uploads/trucknetuk/original/3X/d/d/ddf18f41792d6fef02e677d99f46af025c9f4a40.jpeg)