jeffreyk:
Was it ever law to be a certain distance from the steering wheel when sleeping in the cab, if so what was the distance?
and what if you had a fold down bed in a day cab?.
Hi Jeffreyk
It was, but I am not sure what the distance was. Several of our drivers fitted fold down beds in day cabs. We had no responsibility to maintain the law so had no problem turning blind eye, and our drivers told us the police were well aware that drivers wee sleeping in their cabs and again turned blind eye as they felt it helped them keeping security in HGV parking areas.
The problem would come with Ministry of Transport who could argue that drivers hadn’t taken sufficient rest away from their vehicle. I remember reading several cases published in Commercial Motor where drivers were fined for not taking their required break, because they were sleeping in their vehicle. However again it was relatively rare as MOT would have to prove the driver had not taken this break away from the vehicle. I think the MOT inspectors who made the charges must have been real jobsworths and suspect it was drivers they had cought sleeping daytime in places like laybys. Knowing lorry drivers from the sixties as I did I wouldn’t have liked to be a MOT Inspector checking round a HGV parking area about 1.00am early on a morning. The other strange possition was that the Transport and General Workers Union were very strong in speaking out againt drivers sleeping in cabs. I think they took the view that if it became acceptable some employers would use this as an excuse to reduce subsistance payments. I also believe Inland Revenue were arguing about untaxed subsistance in those cicumstances, which was ironic when you consideed the allowances their staff received allowing them to stay in expensive hotels including meals against the small tax free allowances agreed for HGV drivers.
I hope we get further views and comments but that is how I understood the situation.
Best wishes
Carl
Yes it was illegal to sleep in a cab without a custom sleeper cab and if I remember it right, even if you were in a sleeper cab with the keys in the ignition and you had been drinking, you would be done for drink driving. I remember when I was with Dents of Spennymoor in the late sixties, early seventies, there was a few of us with three steel pipes apiece, we parked up in Wapping High Street next to Tower Bridge, in the early hours the police turned up as usual to catch drivers in their cabs, we were sleeping in the pipes and could see the police looking everywhere for us until one of the lads started throwing tiny bits of grit at them, because we were in sleeping bags and away from the cabs they decided to let it be and strolled off seeing the funny side of it, it was the first time I knew a London bobby had a sense of humour.
Hi Everybody…The only thing I was ever told by the law,was you could not sleep in the wagon but you could sleep under it? as far as security, it was the best thing that happened when we slept in the vans…Carl &Peter…I remember Corner’s racing van in Marmaduke Street, it looked like a bloody big mobile road sign, am not surprised he got pulled, come on Peter tell us what you have got and where from 
Eddie
Carl had to send this as you where talking about Seddons and Perkins, have found a photo I had in my office of SGS in your clivery and mine, I use to have it on the wall as a before and after.
Eddie
Carl…when your dad asked me if I wanted to buy SGS I was over the moon when I saw her, took her straight to John Dee’s to have her painted, at the moment this is all I can find of her, but I do have one standing at Mainsforth in your livery before she was painted, what a wagon, Dave hastie loved it, he was never away from his daughters at Maltby when he drove it for me.
Eddie
Hi Eddie,
The Seddon you bought seems to have been built by VanPlan, from looking at the photo. Am I correct, and after changing the engine how long did you have it? Did you have any problems?
With regard to SGS I have quite a bit to tell,when I can gather u my memory. Thanks for sending the photo as that van had special memories for me How long did you keep it and did you have many troubles with it?
Carl
Hi Carl…If it had not been for Barrie Hindmarch having a spare engine for the Seddon, I would have scrapped it, Dev’s knew what they were doing getting rid of it,as for SGS she was a great wagon, even when our Gail took the business over from me, she still had SGS, when i bought her from your Dad, I thought I had made it, having aquired a Bedford Marsden.By the way the Seddon had a door in the front of the luton,I think for stage props or something pretty long ?.
Eddie
Regarding SGS did John Ward drive it? And Colin Watson used to have a fold down steel frame for a bed in i think an AEC in his artic with a big hump in the middle. Gordon
Carl Williams:
Hi Eddie,
The Seddon you bought seems to have been built by VanPlan, from looking at the photo. Am I correct, and after changing the engine how long did you have it? Did you have any problems?
With regard to SGS I have quite a bit to tell,when I can gather u my memory. Thanks for sending the photo as that van had special memories for me How long did you keep it and did you have many troubles with it?
Carl
Hi Eddy sorry cannot say if Christine went to Durham Road School & if she was a prefect but am trying to contact her brother in Spennymoor so will let you know, as i said she died some years ago but had lived in Australia for many years a lovely woman.Eddie is Peter an ex W H W driver i may know him 
edworth:
Hi Gordon & Carl…Christine on the photo, I am sure she went to Durham Road school and might have been a prefect, it is weird as you get older you seem to remember things more cleary from the past, I cannot remember what the hell I did last week…Carl i think there was a driver from Bishop called Beaumont, think he was related to John Willetts, the only saturday night I ever stopped out was with him, I had a lot of drops for ness and did not get away till late in the week, met up in Kingston he had the old TK 4 cylinder body to big (you know the one) he had been having trouble with it and as we were empty and on our way home we left about 4 in the morning (so I could get back to the club) anyway I stayed behind him all the way to wetherby, I was sick as a pig as it was so slow, I flashed him to stop and to see how it was running and he said it was going brilliant, so I said goodbye to him and off for the club, next morning (monday) when I came in I got such a bollocking off your dad for leaving him as he broke down shortly after I left him, but what made matters worse was when your dad told George Hardy (black spot) to attend him, George went to him in his car and had no bloody gear with him, so when he could not fix it, he had to come back to spennymoor and get something to tow him, no wonder your dad went ballistic, but that was George…wish I had that Alvis now, there was also a 1000cc Vincent in the yard, we use to start it and sit on the seat, but we were not big enough to handle it, what a bike…Gordon, over the food poisoning now, have been bad with it, but like the doc says, as you get older you cannot fight such things as when you are younger, I suppose that go’es for a leg over and all
Eddie
I remember our good freind Dave Hastie a truly nice bloke & never got ruffled did many a job with him.
edworth:
Carl…when your dad asked me if I wanted to buy SGS I was over the moon when I saw her, took her straight to John Dee’s to have her painted, at the moment this is all I can find of her, but I do have one standing at Mainsforth in your livery before she was painted, what a wagon, Dave hastie loved it, he was never away from his daughters at Maltby when he drove it for me.
Eddie
Eddie how many vans did you have.
Carl Williams:
Hi Eddie,
The Seddon you bought seems to have been built by VanPlan, from looking at the photo. Am I correct, and after changing the engine how long did you have it? Did you have any problems?
With regard to SGS I have quite a bit to tell,when I can gather u my memory. Thanks for sending the photo as that van had special memories for me How long did you keep it and did you have many troubles with it?
Carl
hi carl , dont know if anybody rembers me (terry fullard ) from the early 70,s i used to lead out of cautaulds , with geordie gleason (the colonel) arther overton, brian sheldon, ray juler,i left to join the r.a.f. i have a couple of photo,s i will put on later if can find them .
bullwinkle:
hi carl , dont know if anybody rembers me (terry fullard ) from the early 70,s i used to lead out of cautaulds , with geordie gleason (the colonel) arther overton, brian sheldon, ray juler,i left to join the r.a.f. i have a couple of photo,s i will put on later if can find them .
Hi Terry,
Wonderful to hear from you.
As you will read I am trying to list all employees and I have added your name, George Gleaso and Arthur Overtons.
I apologise you had been ommitted but it is difficult to remember and its so good to hear from you.
I would be delighted if you could add photos and any memories of the past.
Once again thank you for contributing and if ever you see anyone ese from your times please tell them about this thread
Best wishes
Carl
A more up to date employee list.
Still many names to come any help appreciated
If you find you are missed off I apologise, sometimes yu cannot see the wood fr the trees.
Aaron Smith
Alan Angus
Alan Brown
Alan Henderson Fleet Engineer
Alan Robinson
Alan Stout
Alan Wharrier
Andrew Sottt Commercial Director
Anne Walton/Askwith Spennymoor Office
Arthur Overton
Arthur Crooks
Barry Lauder
Bev Easter
Bill Bailey
Bill Dixon
Bill Foster (Bilco)
Bill Welford
Bill Westgarth Fitter
Billy Raine
Billy Petty Security
Bob Bradley
Bob Hobson
Bob marsden
Bob pinkney Died at the wheel of heart attack in Lancs driving FUP145C
Bob Wetherall First fully qualified accountant employed, left to be head accountant at Ladbroke’s Hotels division
Brian Archer
Brian Askwith
Brian Spark Accountant Spennymoor office
Brian Sheldon
Brian Winter
Brian Wragg Apprentice
Carl Williams Director/ Company Secretary
Caroline Vane
Cess Ramsey
Charlie Brown
Christine Oliver Female Class 1 Driver
christine Ede Spennymoor Office
Christine Harland Spennymoor Office
Christine Heale Spennymoor Office
Clifford Smiles
Colin pinkney
Colin Porter Fitter
Colin Sumpton
Colin Watson
Colin Williams
Dale harrison
Darren Brown
Dave Brannon Fitter
Dave Hastie
Dave Heron
dave Pope
David Dalrymple Removal Sales
Dennis Bradey
Dennis Lee
Diane Spennymoor Office Lived in Durham
■■■■ Porter Fitter
■■■■ Lowes
Eddie Brown
Eddy Donnelly
Eddie Worthington
Eddy Ramsey
Eddy Thornton Workshop Manager/Transport
Eric Nelson
Farrah Clark
Frank Morgan Orriginally driver then went on, after loosing arm to look after Wilcomatic Vehicle Wash and parking
Fred Nelson
Fred Thirlaway
Fred Winter
Freddie Wallace
Geoff Welford
George Graham
George Gleason
George Hardy Fitter
George Sykes
Gordon Ball
Harry Blatchford
Harry Blyth
Harry Brain
Harry Hawkins
Harry Smith
Harry Whitehead
Henry Barras
Hillary Harrison
howard Rushton
Ian Askwith
Jack Birch
Jack Wilkinson
Janette Drove 4 wheeler Laird Flat to Oldham each day Roping and Sheeting
Jeff Pye
Jenny Myers Spennymoor Office
Jim cairey
Jim Ferguson
Jim Kirk
Jim Lupton
Jim Wilson London Depot manager
Jimmy Clements
Jimmy Testo
Jock Weatherstone
Jock Spennymoor Transport Office Ex ATM and Ramar
Joe carpenter
John Beaumont
John Chapman
John Coed Aprentice Mecanic
John Glancey
John Hetherington
John Hughes
John Hull
John Nixon
John Storey Apprentice Transport Manager
John Tobin
John Ward
John Willets
joy Bunting Spennymoor office nicknaed Blondie
Keith Dixon
Ken Armtrong Fitter
Keith Payne
Keith Winter
Ken Atkinson Painter
Ken Dagga
Kenny Hardy
Kenny Hodgson
Kenny nelson
kenny Smallman
Kenny Smith
Kenny Thmpson Apprentice
John Vasey
Laurece Petch
Laurie hawkins
Les Aislesby
Les Davies
Les Warnet
Linda Irving Lived in Grange Est Spennymoor Wages Clerk last few years emigated to Australia
Linda Turnbull Spennymoor Office
Malcolm Stephenson
Malcome Marsden Removal Sales/ mail Order office
Margaret O’Hern Class 1 female driver lived at Near Scots Corner
Marilyn mason Marmaduke Street/ Green Lane office
Martin Haliday
Martin Wade Fitter
Mickie Solo Fitter
Mick Robson Driver from Bishop Auckland
Mrs Dennis Marmaduke Street/ Green Lane office
Neil Evans
Neil I’anson
Norman Robinson
Norman Snowball
Norman Flatman Transport Magager Spennymoor office
Ozzie Boomfied
Pam Receptionist Telephonist Spennymoor Office ex ATM
Pat Mccabe Spennymoor Office
Paul Sandford
Patrick Cavagner Newcastle Office manager
Pauline hood Spennymoor Office
Peter Aspinall
Peter Caywood
Peter Clearey
Peter Holliday
Peter moore
Peter Wilson
Peter Windship
Phil Reilly Spennymoor Warehouse Manager
Ray Hornby
Ray Juler
Raymond Russell Fitter/Tyre Fitter/ Recovery Driver/ Class 1 driver
Roger Owen
Ronnie Briggs
Ronnie Harris
Ronnie Wensley
Ronny Allison
Shiela Marmaduke Stree/ Green Lane office
Shiela Juler Office cleaner Green Lane
Shirley cuttey Spennymoor Office
Stan Harper Fitter
Stehen Cairns Fitter
Susan Firth Spennymoor Office
Susan Spennymoor Office Lived in Darlington
Sydney Credit controler ex Homeworthy Accountant
Taffy Evans
Terry Stores Manager from Wolsingham
Terry Fullard
Terry Sumpton
Tommy Bowen
Tommy Brophy
Tommy Clements
Tommy Coates
Tommy magles Fitter
Tommy Stoddart
Tony Dark skinned driver class 3
Tony Hawkins
Tony Kirk
Valerie Powell Spennymoor Office
Vic Britton
Vic Young Fitter
Yvonne Spennymoor office lived in Chilton
W.H.Williams (Harry) Managing Director
W.H.Williams Snr Founder and orriginal Propriator
Hi Carl…that letterhead reminds me when I was a wagon lad and when I was driving the small vans, we used to have the bill for the removal already made out (Distance ones) and there was a postage stamp attatched so when the bill was paid we had to sign across the stamp, or was it the customer that signed across,not sure which, something about the stamp made it legal etc…Gordon, Peter is not a ex driver, he is related to Carl and he was never away from Marmaduke st when he was a kid, he use to go out with anybody as long as he was in a wagon,I don’t want him to get a big head but he was and still is a “Great Lad” and when he reads this, he had better tell me all about this Bedford Marsden he as aquired,Is Dave Hastie still in Spennymoor, I miss so much as I spend nearly half a year over at ■■■■■■■ in my caravan, sometimes people pass away and I don’t find out till a lot later or if at all, I had 6 vans and hired when required, believe me that was enough, when we were really busy and vans running late it was a nightmare, I use to sit in the office on a night and wonder how the hell did Harry cope with all the pressure he had, because everything was happening around Spennymoor then, they were all expanding,New Quipment,Thorns Lighting,Fridges and Cookers,Courtalds,Black and Decker,Ramar,Advanced Throwing Mills,the Pyjama factorys at Wheatley Hill and Trimdon, he was like a rock and just seemed to soake the pressure up, anyway finger is getting tired…Peter still want to know about that van .
Eddie
Hi Eddy firstly no news on Christine her brother was too young @ the time to remember anything like her boyfreinds but did think she went do the Durham Road School.I must say i thought i had a good memory but you are much better & have lots of great photo’s & stories, there was something about W H Williams not only a nice employer but 99% of drivers were like brothers with happy memories.Peter i think is the expert on W H W vans & drivers Peter (Pickfords) we met in the Coach & Horses a couple of years ago with you & Carls mate John the Bank Manager his wife Hillary worked for us.
Gordon
edworth:
Hi Carl…that letterhead reminds me when I was a wagon lad and when I was driving the small vans, we used to have the bill for the removal already made out (Distance ones) and there was a postage stamp attatched so when the bill was paid we had to sign across the stamp, or was it the customer that signed across,not sure which, something about the stamp made it legal etc…Gordon, Peter is not a ex driver, he is related to Carl and he was never away from Marmaduke st when he was a kid, he use to go out with anybody as long as he was in a wagon,I don’t want him to get a big head but he was and still is a “Great Lad” and when he reads this, he had better tell me all about this Bedford Marsden he as aquired,Is Dave Hastie still in Spennymoor, I miss so much as I spend nearly half a year over at ■■■■■■■ in my caravan, sometimes people pass away and I don’t find out till a lot later or if at all, I had 6 vans and hired when required, believe me that was enough, when we were really busy and vans running late it was a nightmare, I use to sit in the office on a night and wonder how the hell did Harry cope with all the pressure he had, because everything was happening around Spennymoor then, they were all expanding,New Quipment,Thorns Lighting,Fridges and Cookers,Courtalds,Black and Decker,Ramar,Advanced Throwing Mills,the Pyjama factorys at Wheatley Hill and Trimdon, he was like a rock and just seemed to soake the pressure up, anyway finger is getting tired…Peter still want to know about that van .
Eddie
Carl i managed to get a message to David Brannan’s son & will pass it on to his Dad & hopefully get a call from David who will have some stories from the fitting shop.
Gordon.
goggietara:
Hi Eddy firstly no news on Christine her brother was too young @ the time to remember anything like her boyfreinds but did think she went do the Durham Road School.I must say i thought i had a good memory but you are much better & have lots of great photo’s & stories, there was something about W H Williams not only a nice employer but 99% of drivers were like brothers with happy memories.Peter i think is the expert on W H W vans & drivers Peter (Pickfords) we met in the Coach & Horses a couple of years ago with you & Carls mate John the Bank Manager his wife Hillary worked for us.
Gordon
edworth:
Hi Carl…that letterhead reminds me when I was a wagon lad and when I was driving the small vans, we used to have the bill for the removal already made out (Distance ones) and there was a postage stamp attatched so when the bill was paid we had to sign across the stamp, or was it the customer that signed across,not sure which, something about the stamp made it legal etc…Gordon, Peter is not a ex driver, he is related to Carl and he was never away from Marmaduke st when he was a kid, he use to go out with anybody as long as he was in a wagon,I don’t want him to get a big head but he was and still is a “Great Lad” and when he reads this, he had better tell me all about this Bedford Marsden he as aquired,Is Dave Hastie still in Spennymoor, I miss so much as I spend nearly half a year over at ■■■■■■■ in my caravan, sometimes people pass away and I don’t find out till a lot later or if at all, I had 6 vans and hired when required, believe me that was enough, when we were really busy and vans running late it was a nightmare, I use to sit in the office on a night and wonder how the hell did Harry cope with all the pressure he had, because everything was happening around Spennymoor then, they were all expanding,New Quipment,Thorns Lighting,Fridges and Cookers,Courtalds,Black and Decker,Ramar,Advanced Throwing Mills,the Pyjama factorys at Wheatley Hill and Trimdon, he was like a rock and just seemed to soake the pressure up, anyway finger is getting tired…Peter still want to know about that van .
Eddie
Carl this must be the same Truck i drove to Wigan on a rally, you & Susan went in the red Merc, as i was driving others passed & slowed to get a good look as it was a nice OLD coloured Truck i remember while parked on the A59 near preston a family in a Rolls Royce pulled up behind & was truly admiring it i nearly gave him a swap Carl.
Carl Williams:
1937 Bedford 2 Tonner
Hi Terry did you join us after being in the R A F then went back to the R A F ?
Gordon Ball
bullwinkle:
hi carl , dont know if anybody rembers me (terry fullard ) from the early 70,s i used to lead out of cautaulds , with geordie gleason (the colonel) arther overton, brian sheldon, ray juler,i left to join the r.a.f. i have a couple of photo,s i will put on later if can find them .
