Eddie Ramsey in he back of LPT 865J waiting to load outide our warehouse. LPT 965J and LPT866J were two Bedford Luton vans built on TK chassis cabs by Marsden of Warrington .The bodies were fibreglass andour standard size both collected from Marsden and registered the same day with the exception one was in Courtaulds Green livery and thr other in our cream and brown. Arround hat time we had Marsden make four lutons and one boxvan on TK chassis cabs instead of our usual integrals. I think the reason for this was that the TK chassis scuttles we used for the base of the integrals had delivery problems and the chassis cabs were readily available. The integrals were more popular with the drivers, were better to drive and kept their condition much longer with the fible glass cabs not rusting like the standard TK cab. The drivers liked them because they benefited with sleeper cabs where as they tended to use the lutons on normal cabs. As we started to move onto Mercedes the drivers refered to these as tin cabs and said the Mercedes were very cold.
Something happened in the nineteen fifties that sculptured the future of W.H.Williams (Haulage) Ltd. My father discovered the existence of Marsden Coachbuilders Warrington.
We had three 1953 Bedford SB pantechnicons, petrol vans based on the new petrol Passenger chassis. With their large 1750 cu feet body they were versatile vehicles giving us advantage over most the competition at that time often carrying up to twice the loads of older vehicles. Even with their speed limited to20 mph they could move more goods at a cheaper price.
First NUP was supplied and built by Blakes Manchester, the main Bedford Agents, and was a crude effort not well built and badly designed. The integral cab was very difficult to climb into as the steps were badly located, and the body was not as strong as it might have been.
The second CDJ was built by Marsdens. The cab, although not fibreglass in those days, was very well designed making the Bedford a full forward control without the bulge at the front the s type Bedford offered. My dad said it was a pleasure to drive and whilst the body was to the minimum specification, which gave Marsden’s a financial advantage over their competitors at that time; it was strong enough to stand fifteen years hard work.
The third HTH was built by Spurlings of London looking more like NUP, it was unmistakable as a Bedford S Type with the bulge semi normal control look, but unlike NUP was very well designed, over specified and built like a tank. Spurlings were well known as expensive builders, of the pre war era.
At about three years old NUP was delivering a load of radiograms in Scotland when it was hit from behind by another vehicle. Because of the radiograms being lightly built and the body not being strong it was destroyed up to the drop well ended, just behind the wheel arches. My dad went up to Scotland to collect it and cut most of the rear body away and tied the rest up as best he could to bring it back to Spennymoor.
Mr Noble of Sherwood and Wynn at Hurworth near Darlington was unable to see what the rear of the vehicle had been like before the accident and to show him what he needed my dad took CDJ (The Marsden0 down to show him. ‘This buggar will fall apart’ he said on seeing the back frame of the Marsden and how thinly the wood frame was. .Reluctantly he copied the Marsden and once again NUP was on the road again looking identical to .CDJ from the rear
Originally my dad dealt with old Mr Marsden and his son Ken, whose brother Jeff was at the time I believe in the RAF. Eventually the two brothers ran it together and like many brothers tended to argue. Arthur Rathbone had served his time under old Mr Marsden and was the foreman. As the business grew Gerry Crowe was made a foreman and eventually was promoted to sales. Years later Gerry together with another salesman and Arthur Rathbone went onto found Vanplan.
I went with my dad several times to Maesdens to see our vehicles being built. From about 11 years old. I suppose it was about 1963-4 that when we went Arthur Rathbone was busy designing a new front for the integral SB’s. It was much squarer that the original SB cab, and with twin headlights I couldn’t help wonder if they had not copied the Guy Invisible look that was being built by Guy at that time.
Another occasion my dad saw Arthur Rathbone walking around with a piece of wood in deep thought. When my dad asked what was the matter he said they had taken an order for a pigeon carrier and they wanted all the doors to open together so all the birds got the same advantage. He obviously figured it out because a couple of moths later there was a photo and description saying how it was better than any other pigeon transporters up to that time. Jerry Crowe said then only trouble with Arthur was if one of the marsdens asked as foreman to get someone to do something he’d rather just do it himself, rather than get someone else.
Up to 1978we collected all new vans in grey primer taking them back to pint in our workshops. This meant we were getting no notice of new vehicles in Magazines like Commercial Motor, so after that time w had them painted by Marsden. The first they painted was a KF integral built to TIR specifications and certificated as such EUP with G prefix on the end. Marsden in fact kept photographs of every vehicle they built. That would have been very interesting to see. Someone somewhere probably will have these photos.
The only problem we ever had with them was originally after about three years the varnish they used cracked which eventually led to the paint flaking. We never had any movements on the back frames which meant that the doors (or shutters) and tailboards fitted perfectly after years of hard usage and mileage. We never had a loose body bolt which one of the first things Ministry of Transport was looked at when they did spot checks. The only real problem we experienced with the KF integrals was the cab sub frame tended to rot at about ten years old, and this was not Marsden’s fault but the Bedford floor panel supplied as part of the original chassis scuttles. We then cut away the Marsden Fibreglass cab and replaced the Bedford cab parts and then bonded the Fibreglass cab back again.
Photo of our Wellingborough Depot. This was the smallst with london about twice the size and Sheffield about 4 times the size.Eventually we had to reduce the delivery area for Sheffield by doing most of Lancashire home deliveries direct from Spennymoor. The London depot would be in a very popular area today as it is to the rear of canary wharf and the wall in front of the depot was at the edge of the Thames overlooking the Thames Barrier. I had to drive past the construction of Canary Wharf as I drove round to the depot
This is a photiograph from the early fifties when Spennymoor Garden Guild used one of our vehicles to promote their organisation. I beleive they were set up to encourage flowers to be planted in public areas such as the enterances to Spennymoor. The photo was taken behind Spennymoor Town Hall. To the left is my Grandfather W.H.Williams Senior who strangley was driving (The only time I ever remember) and the little boy on the front left is me.The vehicle was GPT918, which was registered 1 Jan 1947.
It was the first new vehicle they had bought after the war as by this time the old pre war Bedfords were getting slightly old. It is fortunate that the fleet of 4 2 tonners and 1 30cwt were relatively new before the war, but Bedford had boasted 50 per cent overloading was no problem and I’m sure the 2 tonners had sometimes carried up to 4 ton.Parts had been impossible to obtain during the war and everything had to be repaired as best they could.With new vehicles being in very short supply I am sure my Grandfather and father must have been proud of GPT.
The chassis cab was a Bedford 3 Tonner supplied by Sherwoods of Darlington and the body built by Shewood and Wynn.Although GPT must have seemed very large on arrival at Marmaduke Street, it was soon dwafed by OB’s and then the SB’s which made it have limited use.It was infact the first vehicle to be parked in the new garage at Mamaduke Street that had just been completed. GPT was in there waiting for registration and taxing.
My memory of GPT was better than any other vehicle as often Iplated in the cab as it was often parked up because of its size.I have slight recolections of going one day on a trip to Boots at Nottingham with my dad. He was taking a load of Leather hand bags (Made locally). I don’t think many handbags today are made in UK
GPT waseventually sold to Hughes of Seaham , who was a removal contractor of that time and I beleive the mileage was just over 30,000 milesin about 1959.
In 1956 we got our first diesel. My dad had been reading Commercial Motor and saw Sheffield’s main Ford dealer had a new Thames 4D Luton van for sale and after talking to them on the phone he sent his mother and Father, my grandparents to travel to Sheffield by train and I, about 7 went too. Our job was to see it was as advertised and buy it.
I can vaguely remember going into this building and seeing two new vans both in grey primer. One was large and the other was small. I can remember insisting to my Grandfather that we wanted the biggest. Perhaps it was part of his plan to look at the smaller but after a short telephone call to my dad he bought the larger. Now in hindsight he no doubt baffled the poor salesman and paid the price for the smaller van, as he seemed to achieve so many times in his life.
They must have delivered the Ford on trade plates because it was registered TPT.
Anyone who has knowledge of the old 4D will know they were problematic., but it was almost as large as our Bedford SBs (It had a very large van body with a particularly large Luton.) and achieved 21 mpg against 12 with the petrol Bedfords.
The main problem the 4D had was that it blew cylinder head gaskets at about 4,000 mile intervals. My dad said he had got it down to an art and could change the gasket in about an hour and a half. I remember spending hours at Youngs Chester Le Street who were our nearest Ford Agent. Amongst the modifications they made was to replace the start button with a handle at the side of the engine. As it just had a driver’s seat and seat for one passenger I usually had to sit on the battery box which was located between the two seats and it was very uncomfatable. Also my dad informed me it was very cold to ride in with no heater. The old petrols got warm with the heat from the engine but with the normal control cab and being a diesel there was no heat at all so if you were travelling for hours in it you needed to wrap up with blankets over your knees.
The rep from Edmunds Walker told my dad that they had a head gasket that would save the gasket problems. He went on to say the Ford Gasket which we had been using was made to a poor specification to save costs. When fitted the remedy worked, but then soon the engine needed replacing. Youngs fitted a new engine which they said had been modified (I believe under guarantee).They told my dad that this would save our head gasket problems. It did not, but by fitting Edmunds Walker gasket it did.
Oil leaked on both engines from all over the place and one day when my dad was stopped by the Ministry of Transport at a spot check he felt like giving them the keys and catching a bus. He was amazed to be told that it was OK and the cleanest vehicle he had seen for a long time. He was later told that my Uncle Jim (My Grandmother’s Brother), who had worked for us since the twenties and had done all the repairs including during the war had had some time to spare the afternoon before and had decided to grease it round. As was his habit he cleaned everything with petrol withy a paint brush as he went and by doing so he had saved a GV9.
My mother’s brother my uncle Bob was driving south one morning and between Catterick and Leaming it was blown over and a telegraph post went through the body. He was very lucky because it was just behind the cab. It was taken to Youngs at their body shop and they built on a new body. It was decided it previously was too high for such a light chassis and the height was reduced and they made the Luton useless by sloping it which looked ridiculous outside. I was very upset when I saw it, but we used it for a few more years until the early sixties. I cannot remember who bought it.
However I do remember when one day I went out with my dad with a load of paint drums to Hull and on the way back we pulled into I think Thirsk when immediately a Ministry of Transport Inspector asked my dad to see his log book. I was quietly sent into a shop to buy a pen and my dad said his pen had run dry and that’s why he’d stopped to get one. Surprisingly they let him off.
The other problem I remember was in those days they hadn’t put the red dye in farmer’s diesel and we had to keep a record of the mileage done in a book with details of diesel bought. One day an inspector came to Marmaduke Street and spoke to my grandmother who was well trained to say that Mr Williams was out so could he call tomorrow. He readily agreed although he knew my dad and had walked past him. This gave my dad time to bring his records up to date
When did you close the Sheffield depot?
jeffreyk:
When did you close the Sheffield depot?
It was close january 1986
Mysterron a member contacted about a week or so ago,
He had been an ex driver and I asked him if he could give names of drivers who he remembered working with
Below is his reply plus we talked about Ray Juler who was his best man , Brian Sheldon and John Ward
Thanks for the e-mail Carl, sorry I’ve not replied to you before now but
here goes. Drivers I can recall Eddie Worthington (he wasn’t with you
while
I was there but I worked with him elsewhere), Martin ‘‘Doc’’ Halliday,
Norman ‘‘Wacker’’ Robinson, Alan Robinson, Aaron Smith, Jim Lupton, Colin
Pinkney, John Clancey, Colin Sumpton, Kenny Smith, Tommy Brophy. Diane
worked in the office (she used to drink pints in the pub). Allan Henderson
was garage foreman and Eddie Thornton was in the transport office. There
are
others but I can’t put names to faces. Unfortunately I cannot remember
vehicle registrations though I do remember Yorkie the nightwatchman from
Tudhoe. By the way my name is Ron or Ronnie Briggs. Hope these details are
of some help and if any more come to mind I will let you know. Thanks
again
for the photos they bring back memories for myself, Ron.
-----Original Message-----
From: UKAdmin@truck.net
Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 10:54 AM
To: Mysterron
Two tickets from two of the Dinner Dances we had at Christmas time One from 1986-7 and the other from 1987-8
The first at Eden Arms Rushyford where I think two were held and the Second from Redhills hotel Durham I also remember one being at Morritt Arms Greta Bridge near Barnard Castle. I wonder if any ex employee or ex employee’s wives remembers going to any of these
We were getting an increasing number of removals to do to Europe, and it is difficult to know how to deal with Customs unless you, yourself had some experience.
We had an enquiry from NATO to give an estimate to remove a British member of their staff who was based in Naples to move to NE England and we estimated the load to be about 600 cu ft and our price was accepted. It was the ideal opportunity of learning by going to Italy and carrying out the removal.
Phil Riley, who was then a porter was to accompany me and our route was set ferry Dover-Ostend into France, Switzeland into Italy and down to Naples.
We had three Leyland (BMC) 350 FG’s with 3.8 litre diesel engines and 750 cu ft fibreglass bodies by Marsden of Warrington. I chose to take the newest which was just about three months old at that time. For those of you who remember the FG’s had the threepenny bit cabs which in their larger form were mostly used as breadvans. The advantage these had for us was that under 3.5 ton gross was free from operators licence. At the time we also had two 3.5 GVW Transits with 650 Cu Ft Marsden Bodies and a Bedford CF equivalent making up our smaller vans we operated and the FG’s were certainly better than these, having a proper chassis and conventional springs, and strange for Leyland at that time were fairly reliable.We also had had larger fuel tanks fitted. On the downside the unladen weight was about 2.5 ton giving a load limit of just 1 ton, the cab was particularly uncomfortable (In fairness they were designed for urban deliveries not high mileage work), and finally they had a crash gearbox, when fitted with the larger engine.
We set off on a Monday morning, making it to Ostend (Via Dover) in good time and proceeded into France where we found somewhere to stay about a mile off the main road. Although I took French at School I was not very good and the inn where we stayed had no one speaking English. With my broken French we managed to get something to eat and a few drinks before going to bed. The next morning we made an early start. At one point Phil was able to tell me ‘See that house there, the third one down, we moved them in there’… At one customs post I managed, trying to get as close as possible the customs officer,s office, to bump his flag with the front corner of the luton.
I believe we were going to cross the St Gothard’s pass in Switzerland, I believe now its been tunnelled but as we headed towards the summit the FG heated up and we were unladed. We stopped for something to heat and let the engine cool down and fill up the radiator. THE PHOTO BELOW IS AT THIS POINT (If you enlarge you can just make out the van)
We headed on and our next stop was to stay overnight on the outskirts of Florence.
Next morning we carried on without stopping and approaching Naples we were starving. I saw a restaurant at the side of the road and we pulled in. They could only speak Italian and we managed to make signs to show we were hungry and wanted something to eat. We hadn’t a clue what was on the menu but were brought a plate of spaghetti which we ate thinking this was it, but to our delight it was followed by two massive steaks.
By some miracle and Phil’s wonderful map reading we arrived at the house. Kindly they welcomed us and gave us bunk beds to sleep in that night. We were up next morning to start to load.
One thing neighther of us had anticipated was the heat. Also the chap we were moving was a collector of stones. By about 11am we were loaded, and what a load it was. With Phil’s skilful packing we managed to get everything on but the weight. It must have weighed about three ton. We were grossly overloaded and we had the Alps to cross. We decided to start out and not stop just buying drinks as we refuelled, and at seven o’clock at night we reached the bottom of our climb of four hours in second gear. The 3.8 litre diesel engine drove you sick with its continual drum drum noise, never the less we managed back again at 11 o’clock at night without overheating to where this photo was taken where we stayed overnight. Phil said ‘Thank heaven we are up here’ However I had to explain what goes up must come down and I had no brakes. They were not designed for this heavy a load.
To be continued
Earlier I said we had 3 1953 petrol Bedford Sbs. This is the third HTH. Bodywork was by Spurlings at their bodyshop in London .
it was the last petrol commercial we had when it was sold just before thr start of Plating and Testing, so it ad had a long hard life by that time.In fact we had had it parked up for about three years as a spare vehcle and when we had need to retax it , one of its first runs was Devon and Cornwall and I’m sure the driver who took it was Colin Watson. It is credit to how well maintained our vehicle were before plating and annual testing.
Phil Reilly and I were staying at the Inn in the photo in Switzerland with a Leyland 350 FG Furniture van loaded with almost 3 ton when the maximum it could carry was 1 ton. I had no brakes because of this excess weight and we had to travel down the windy steep roads that led us back into France.
The next morning we got up early and after breakfast we started our long journey. I held the van in second gear and slowly down we went. It took almost 4 hours but at least we were safe.
Approaching the French customs we could see them pointing at us and laughing. ‘No ping this time’ the customs officer had said as he waved us through, obviously remembering me bumping his flag on the last time.
Our paperwork was made out in Italian, French and English and as well we had a letter addressed from NATO asking them to assist our journey.
Passing through France, once again we did not stop just getting sandwiches and soft drinks as we refuelled.
We travelled along their A1 Which led us to cross customs and travel into Ostend where Phil, from his previous journeys, assured me we would have a good night out? Especially as it was a Saturday night.
The customs post at that time between the French and Belgiums had high towers at each side where they could see each other with a strip of no mans land in between. The French customs let us through and when we went to the Belgium customs I was met with dismay. I could not understand what the customs officer was saying. He obviously didn’t speak English and with my broken French I could not understand him. After talks for a long time where he had made it obvious we could not cross.
Eventually in perfect English he told me that as our paperwork was not made out in Flemish and we could not speak Flemish we could not enter. I asked when I could see someone to discuss it and was told 9-00AM Monday morning
We were in no mans land neither in France or Belgium, starving hungry and tired from the journey. There was nothing there not even water to drink, so I went back to the French side. I told him what was wrong and he phoned up his Belgium counter part. We could see him answer the phone and they argued like mad with one another. The French customs officer then decided he would let us back into France and suggested we could go to Dunkirk and catch the hovercraft. ‘Not with that ‘ I pointed to the van. He immediately got back on the phone to the Belgium Customs Officer again and was shouting to him down the phone. All to no avail and our only option was go back into France and travel to Calais where we arrived at 4 in the morning. We waited for the ferry and I don’t know how Phil managed but I fell asleep with my head on the steering wheel.
We had a good crossing and got something to eat only to find when I pulled off the ferry at Dover and started to drive on the left, the van was very unstable. Obviously we had packed to compensate for the camber of the road being right in Italy and it was leaning well over with the left camber.
Things got worse. The customs demanded the van was unloaded so they could inspect the contents.
I reached agreement that Phil would stay with the van at Dover and I rang back to Spennymoor and arranged for a driver to travel down with one of our large vans which was loaded for Dover and they could tranship from one van onto the other whilst the customs watched and.I returned to Spennymoor by train
In the end I suppose it had a fortunate ending as had I been daft enough to try to drive back in England I would no doubt have been stopped by the police and been prosecuted foe overloading
My dad and me standing next to a newly completed demountable boxvan body way back in 1974. The photograph was taken by and published in Bedford Magazine. If you look closely you might see Peter Butlers chalk marks as he was signwiting round the other side when the photo was taken.
This photograph, which appeared in The Picture Post (A magazine which was very popular in the 50’s) shows the first family moving into Newton Aycliffe. Newton Aycliffe was the first’New Town’ established after the war and was based near to the Munitions factory which was transposed into Aycliffe Industrial Estate. I believe they were carrying a bed settee, which were very heavy at the time the photographer came and were sick of holding it by the time the photo was taken. The man on the left was my dad W. H (Harry) Williams. I forgot to ask who his assistant was so unfortunatly I cannot say who he was, but my dad went home that evening he told my Grandmother he was going to be in the Picture Post, she was a little aprehensive, but when she received her next copy, there he was. The van JUP was a Bedford )B registered new in 1948 (Possibly January 1949). Strangley although it was a Bedford OB Passenger chassis my dad had Sherwoods who supplied the chassis cab fit a standard Bedford cab
Just thinking of name of people working for us early 50’s who could have been at the other end of the settee. Peter Cleary, Jack Birch, Norman Snowball, Tommy Coates Tommy Clements and Tony Hawkins. No doubt they will all have passed away many years ago, as I was only 3 or 4 when the photo was taken, but if any relatives recognise their grandfather of great granfather I would love to hear from them.
A fellow member who lives near the first house to be moved into Newton Aycliffe added the attached post onto another forum. It was taken from an Aycliffe magazine a few years back describing the above photograph
The van JUP was unusual in so much that the Bedford coach chassis and scuttle was supplied by Sherwoods,from who it had been ordered after some argument, where the salesman had been trying to subsidise his wages by getting a cash extra payment to sell it to someone else. As you can imagine delivery lists were very long so close after the war. For some reason my dad wanted a standard cab fitting instead of an integral cab and body. Sherwoods had one and their sister company Sherwood and Wynn would fit it, however they were a lot dearer than Adams and Gibbon for the same job.However Adams and Gibbon hadn’t got a cab. Eventuslly Sherwoods relented and said they would match n price. However when my dad went to collect it the stepboards were not fitted and instead just three woodern slats on each side., and Mr Noble from Sherwood and Wynn said he had had to cut back to save on the price. The next argument was the body, and Noble’s price was way too much as compared to a price given by Youngs the Ford dealers, who had a body shop in Sunderland, so the body was built by the Ford dealers, which was a shoddy effort. The next thing was it was painted by Youngs in Stone and Brown instead of cream and Brown. Finally when they went to collect from Youngs it wouldn’t go out through their doors, as they had built in heigher than their doorway. After letting down the tyres it was put on the road.
JUP’s strange history goes on. Apprently it had an accident when it was about four years old, and it was taken into Mr Noble of Sherwood and Wynn for repair. By this time it Young’s bodywork was virtually falling apart and as part of the repair my dad had agreed with Noble that they would strengthen the body and give it a repaint.It returned in our traditional cream and brown livery with struts holding up the luton which I can remember my dad and granfather saying they didn’t like, however I have a brief memory of it and I can remember thinking it looked a beautiful van. I could never understand why but my dad advertised it for sale, probably to replace it with a much larger SB passenger chassis. One of the Kenmire family, who had the furniture factory came to look at it as they wanted a show van that they could sed round the country to show their range of furniture to shopkeepers (Most furniture shops were independent small businesses in those days). He liked the van and said they would have it at the price it was advertised for.
A week or two went by and ny dad had heard nothing from Kenmires so when someone elce came to see it he sold it to them.
It always seemed such a waste as it had just been repainted and looked like new. As I will explain later it probably was a good decision
The Bedford TK Breakdown from a different angle (The Front)
Although it had negligible mileage when we bought it certainly made up for it in our possession. We towed almost all breakdowns home to Spennymoor, usually if they were still loaded towing them to unload first. It was not unusual to see it towing a tractor complete with 40foot trailer going north on the A1 on its way back to Spennymoor. We had a trailer turn over at the Eden Arms roundabout scattering some of its load of Fisher Price toys across the road. The old TK was used to put it back on its feet again.
The original engine did just over 200,000 miles which was remarkable when you consider the work it had doing so much more than any designers had ever thought of. The original cab suffered the usual rot TKs suffered and was replaced, but all in all it was an exceptional vehicle
