Vans: the unsung heroes of transport?

Learned to drive on an open back mk 1 Transit with Perkins Diesel (a good grounding for Gardner hell later :wink: ) collecting and delivering tyres on L plates, luckily passed first time in a real Mini.
Moved into tyre fitting so drove the Morris 1000 van and the Morris FG thruppeny bit cab at Marshams with the hand operated winch for getting earthmover and crane tyres/wheels on board.
Moved area and worked for a while for a central heating company, Morris 1000 van and Bedford CA, both of which could perform superb exhaust backfires if you switched off the ignition on a long overrun, yeah i know but it was fun at the time.

Got into small van transport, so drove all sorts of mainly Transits, twin wheel petrol flatbed for ages, twin wheel vans both petrol and the then new York Diesel, got given an A series 7.5 tonner but the base model still with that same York 2.4 NA Diesel, runs to Scotland once a week were sloooow…it was a dropside but needed a covered higher volume body for one lucrative contract for weekly Paisley run so boss bought (or more likely found and borrowed) an old National Carriers croquet-post shaped aluminium trailer body, which fitted more or less, which we kept on oil drums when not in use and manually slid it onto the deck then roped and sheeted the body on to make it a van which despite the manky body with barely a lick of paint left on it looked really quite presentable with smart blue sheet over matching the blue cab, and yes that was where i learned to take a pride in roping and sheeting well, made many a silk ■■■■■ from a sows ear then and since.
Thinking more that van body might have been ex whatever came before national carriers, recall what paint there was being two tone, one of the colours maybe a pale reddish tone, i suspect it came off a trailer towed by a Scammel Scarab, must have 25 years old at least in '74, it did the job.

Got issued a new Ford D707 4 pot with van body, unfortunately someone there who never drove the thing :unamused: persuaded Ted to have a step down arse end cos removal work said gob could bring in…motor only ever did one removal…and that rear step down made normal transporting a PITA all the time i had it, had a frame and boards made up to fill the back step-down, but that still left a ledge about 4 ft in, so sliding pallets in and out was a right game, couldn’t use a pallet truck with 1 ton pallets cos the floor was softwood so it was push three in and pull them out with rope levering them over the ledge, all in all a white elephant.
Engine on that blew on my birthday mid morning near Lesmahagow, got towed into a small commercial garage for repair then thumbed it back to Herts and just managed last orders at the pub.

Took an extra unpaid weeks holiday to do my class 1, age 21 and 2 months, two week course, good job i passed first time because Ted was going to sack me anyway for taking that extra week off, or so he said.
I liked Ted, he was a proper character large as life, sort of a less large version of Frank Cannon but with a drooping Mexican moustache.

I did lots of London work on the vans and covered lots of miles all over the country, i still reckon it’s a good grounding for new HGV drivers to try van driving distance work to get the feel and learn the roads before they spend £thousands for an HGV when the job may not be for them after all, sadly the foreigners have sewn up so much of the van work here, both in foreign regd vans but also the number of foreign bods on home deliveries, so not so easy to find good paying jobs on vans any more, i earned near enough general haulage money working for Ted driving vans in the early 70s, which was a blessing because it gave me the impetus to chase the money and not the flash wagon when i got onto the lorries.

The Sherpa must have rated as one of the numbest vans ever produced and this one was a fine example until we sussed out that the rear axle was the same as had been used on the Morris Oxford ( and probably the bigger Austin’s) so we got a diff assembly from the Scrap yard which was from an old Oxford and Bingo ! The Sherpa now clocked about 70 mph in 3rd ! It was a flying machine ! Cheers Bewick.

teatime:
1975 35cwt Lwb transit van had a 2lte engine fast when empty but when loaded to the gunnels slow. I did Christmas hamper deliveries loading from maidenhead in to Greater London and city , A-Z master atlas was essential. 2 runs a day , loading night before and away down the M4 before rush hour for the city and business deliveries back dinner time , hour to load and back for the afternoon / evening residential drops.
It was a brilliant job , the boss was old school do it get it done dont care how you do it, sort your self out dont call me unless you’ve bent the van / been robbed or arrested ! Oh and keep yer eyes open for extra receipts .
Got arrested, the van matched the description of one used in a robbery , half a day wasted before I was sent on my way . Many of the drops in the city resulted in " not here any more take it away" Boss would write them off as undeliverable , we all did well out of that one.
Last drop was about 9pm in Romford, I called in and was told take the motor home for the break, see you in the new year.

Took it back 2nd Jan got paid , in cash :wink: :wink: and bunged a bit extra , threw all the rest of the undelivered stuff in the van , less the booze to take home.
Worked on and off for him when on leave.

You just reminded me… Years ago, we used to work with Ronnie from Perth Removals - he’d leave part-loads with us for later delivery in London and we’ get him jobs going north; and if we were north of the border he’d get us a backload going south. One day Ronnie was running very late so three of us were detailed to come back in at 11pm or so, get in the battered old luton Transit, meet him at his drop and take all his London jobs off him. Thus it was that one dark, murky night at about midnight we all met up in the car parking area beneath several blocks of flats off the N. Circular (Wood Green, I think it was). And yes, Ronnie was tipping at gone midnight… anyway, we got started but not long after, two jam sandwiches (Rover SD1s) and a team van screech into the car park and all of us are separately being asked a lot of awkward questions with bright lights being shone in our faces. Thankfully, two of us knew the boss’ home phone number which we gladly gave to the Met’s finest and then sat down and waited a while… the situation was resolved when, after several unanswered calls, a local unit went round and hammered on the boss’ door at gone 1:30am until they got a satisfactory answer.

Juddian:
given an A series 7.5 tonner but the base model still with that same York 2.4 NA Diesel, runs to Scotland once a week were sloooow…

We had an A-series too. I’ve seen continents move faster.

Juddian:
I did lots of London work on the vans and covered lots of miles all over the country, i still reckon it’s a good grounding for new HGV drivers to try van driving distance work to get the feel and learn the roads before they spend £thousands for an HGV when the job may not be for them after all

I have the same view - do your groundwork in a van (yours or the boss’, doesn’t matter) before taking any further big step. If you can’t/ won’t deal with 20+ drops a day around the sticks or 60+ in town, how do you think it’s going to be better in a bigger wagon?

Chaps, I have a personal confession to make.

It’s taken me some 40 years of wrestling with my conscience (what remains of it anyway), but I have to come out of the closet.

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Once upon a time in 1980/81, I was White Van Man.

There; I’ve said it. I shall accept my penance.

ParkRoyal2100:
I have the same view - do your groundwork in a van (yours or the boss’, doesn’t matter) before taking any further big step. If you can’t/ won’t deal with 20+ drops a day around the sticks or 60+ in town, how do you think it’s going to be better in a bigger wagon?

Distance full load or bulk deliveries or collections means the same thing with a van as it does with a truck and vice versa in the case of multi drop. :wink:

Typical run for me was run to Huntingdon from Feltham.Bring back a load GRP components.I was expected make that job last most of the day.Or maybe fit in a run to Weybridge with paint for the paint contractors for some overtime.
A run to Enfield and back to collect a load of screens from the glassworks usually took until lunchtime.Maybe enough time left to run to Farnham for some pneumatic control parts. :wink:

Things just got better when I’d graduated to the 7.5 tonner.Down to Southampton to collect the tanks made by the boat builder contractor there.Park up in the New Forest for a ‘few’ hours before the run back for some more overtime. :smiley:

No one generally wants an HGV so they can do 10 times as many drops as the worst multi drop van jobs out there.More like the exact opposite more scope for more bulk less drops/collections bonus points for full loads. :bulb: :wink:

The trouble with vans is that they introduced fiendish ideas like cam belts! :imp: Earlier vans had timing chains, an item that generally lasted until the engine needed an overhaul or replacement, now we had a lacky band which needed attention probably two or three times during the engine’s life expectancy; an item that took a fatal dislike to antifreeze from leaking water pumps. Fine the engines now lasted a bit longer, except now we had the issue of access to see properly while attending to the most vital setting associated with the engine. This meant in many cases special tools or improvising to change the things. That was after we’d removed half the vehicle, or hung the lump from a skyhook in the case of smaller vans. Once you had got the belt in place came the business of installing expensive dial test indicators to set the injection timing.

Just a few which I’d rather forget: VW LT - an in cab engine with a cam belt at both ends. Talbot Express - remove half the vehicle and even then it was a transverse engine with access partially through the wheelarch. Renault Master/Traffic - not too bad except that it was completely underneath the vehicle since the gearbox was ahead of the engine.

For a heavy vehicle fitter vans were and still are bad news. I’ve got half a toolbox full of various tools to deal with this small stuff like the Opel Diesel and Mercdes 307s even the splined sockets for the Pinto engine. Ah, Pinto engine and the horrible VV carburettor.

cav551:
The trouble with vans is that they introduced fiendish ideas like cam belts! :imp: Earlier vans had timing chains, an item that generally lasted until the engine needed an overhaul or replacement, now we had a lacky band which needed attention probably two or three times during the engine’s life expectancy; an item that took a fatal dislike to antifreeze from leaking water pumps. Fine the engines now lasted a bit longer, except now we had the issue of access to see properly while attending to the most vital setting associated with the engine. This meant in many cases special tools or improvising to change the things. That was after we’d removed half the vehicle, or hung the lump from a skyhook in the case of smaller vans. Once you had got the belt in place came the business of installing expensive dial test indicators to set the injection timing.

Just a few which I’d rather forget: VW LT - an in cab engine with a cam belt at both ends. Talbot Express - remove half the vehicle and even then it was a transverse engine with access partially through the wheelarch. Renault Master/Traffic - not too bad except that it was completely underneath the vehicle since the gearbox was ahead of the engine.

For a heavy vehicle fitter vans were and still are bad news. I’ve got half a toolbox full of various tools to deal with this small stuff like the Opel Diesel and Mercdes 307s even the splined sockets for the Pinto engine. Ah, Pinto engine and the horrible VV carburettor.

If we didn’t have pushrod and rwd longitudinal mounted engines we’d have to invent them.Oh wait.You’ll have to blame those like Anorak who calls OHC and fwd transverse mounted engines ‘progress.’ :smiling_imp: :laughing:

cav551:
The trouble with vans is that they introduced fiendish ideas like cam belts! :imp:

If you chose wisely, ie a Toyota Hiace with the 2.5 Hilux engine you found the world’s easiest cambelt replacement, 90k miles interval, done these meself on Hilux, takes 1 hour your first time, cambelt only drives camshaft nothing else and there’s real old school timing marks, don’t even need to remove auxilliary drive belt, Gates kit incl new idler and tensioner under £100.
youtube.com/watch?v=ynZFal1YB_0

Juddian:

cav551:
The trouble with vans is that they introduced fiendish ideas like cam belts! :imp:

If you chose wisely, ie a Toyota Hiace with the 2.5 Hilux engine you found the world’s easiest cambelt replacement, 90k miles interval

:open_mouth:

OHC engines are just bad news.Even their long chain runs create too much scope for aggro.Let alone needing to do a cylinder head over haul or even just gasket replacement.

Carryfast:
If we didn’t have pushrod and rwd longitudinal mounted engines we’d have to invent them.Oh wait.You’ll have to blame those like Anorak who calls OHC and fwd transverse mounted engines ‘progress.’ :smiling_imp: :laughing:

Chain or gear driven DOHC is the ultimate solution for cars. Ask anyone who works, or has worked, in engine design.

Transverse engines are used in cars, for the obvious reasons. Ask anyone with knowledge of manufacturing.

Japanese knotweed.

[zb]
anorak:

Carryfast:
If we didn’t have pushrod and rwd longitudinal mounted engines we’d have to invent them.Oh wait.You’ll have to blame those like Anorak who calls OHC and fwd transverse mounted engines ‘progress.’ :smiling_imp: :laughing:

Chain or gear driven DOHC is the ultimate solution for cars. Ask anyone who works, or has worked, in engine design.

Transverse engines are used in cars, for the obvious reasons. Ask anyone with knowledge of manufacturing.

Japanese knotweed.

Far from it, viz the Ford chain driven abortion - introduces leaks from the timing cover and the wonderful idea of a timing chain tensioner dependent upon oil pressure. Many an owner been caught out bump starting the engine to find that without oil pressure the chain jumps a tooth and bang, wrecked engine.

The designers come up with an answer to the brief they have been given, which for small vehicles under about 3 litres engine capacity is governed by cost.

The principle advantage for large FWD vans is that it allows the structure to be cut off behind the cab bulkhead to allow for purpose dedicated bodywork. Other than that one has to learn to park facing downhill if the gradient is steep.

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I remember the BMC ‘B Series’ engines having hydraulic timing chain tensioners, although they were also sprung and pretty much trouble free. I’m glad that at the age of 70 my fitting days are many years behind me now, although I still try to maintain my own van (2007 Citroen Dispatch 2.0 HDI) and when the weather improves have the cam belt and waterpump to change. I did one before on my last van, easy enough but they don’t give you a lot of room and it’s very tempting nowadays with my mobility issues to get a local garage to do the job! :laughing:

Pete.

cav551:

[zb]
anorak:

Carryfast:

Far from it, viz the Ford chain driven abortion - introduces leaks from the timing cover and the wonderful idea of a timing chain tensioner dependent upon oil pressure. Many an owner been caught out bump starting the engine to find that without oil pressure the chain jumps a tooth and bang, wrecked engine.

The designers come up with an answer to the brief they have been given, which for small vehicles under about 3 litres engine capacity is governed by cost.

The principle advantage for large FWD vans is that it allows the structure to be cut off behind the cab bulkhead to allow for purpose dedicated bodywork. Other than that one has to learn to park facing downhill if the gradient is steep.

Ford still at it.
3.2 5 pot Diesel as found in Ranger has variable rate oil pump, John Cadogan did an interesting video about this, seems you have to complete refilling the sump within 15 mins of draining because said pump otherwise can’t prime itself, progress.
Until i found about this it was pencilled in a possible used buy for the future due to decent sized torquey motor, not any more.

Personally i’ve never been against cambelts, what i am against is expecting the to take a tortuous route flexing forwards and backwards and they have no business driving the water pump or any other ancilliaries, a cam drive should only power one thing, the camshaft(s) via as gentle an angle drive as possible, also too many makers design their cars for ease of production and to hell with maintenance other than oil changes, in depth maintenance like this should be able to be completed in reasonable time say 2 hours tops.

Served my apprenticeship at a local authority so got to work on all types of van,s used by various departments and when i started the old BMC JU and Dodge and Commer vans were coming to an end and fleet mainly became Ford . Transits were the mainstay and to be honest found them to be the best for working on although not without their faults the early V4,s head gaskets were prone to go usually between cylinders 3&4.
Then they went to the OHC Pinto,s our breakdown works van twin wheel long wheelbase 2 litre which fair shifted. Main problem with OHC was the oil spray bar for the camshaft which could block therefore cam followers starved of lubrication and wear away producing a lovely loud tapping noise!
This is where with just a little thought in the engine design for repair Ford didn’t help, as to remove cam from the head it had to be fitted ,removed from the rear due to different size bearing runners, so you had to take head off for a camshaft renewal. It was still a pretty straight forward task as long as you also had the 2 off special splined cam belt adjuster sockets.
RWD transits were for me easier to maintain and work on than say the Sherpa’ s which we also had.
The Pinto OHC was a simple design, just driving the camshaft, then we started replacing our ■■■■■■ mark 1&2 van fleet with Astra and ■■■■■■ mk3 where OHC engines started to become more complicated with running water pumps etc. Astra’s were prone to water pumps leaking which meant removal of cambelt and refitment of new belt then adjust belt tension by turning water pump and using the GM belt tension gauge (another special tool!) so even in the 80’s you could see the trend by manufacturer’s to make it harder for the ordinary mechanic to work make a living as an independant.

As yet no mention of Austin K8s, have you fellows no confidence in the domestic products? :smiley:

Star down under.:
As yet no mention of Austin K8s, have you fellows no confidence in the domestic products? :smiley:

Ah well, the K8 was made for simple maintenance as the whole engine and gearbox could be rolled on rollers out of the front of the chassis in one lump similar to the Jensen lorry. Then when Austin and Morris joined it was ditched in favour of the Morris LD where the engine had to come out through the passenger door after firstly removing the floorboards (retained by numerous brass screws in captive nuts that usually broke away :unamused: ) and removing the gearbox.

Pete.

I remember as a small child standing at the bus stop in the pouring rain with my mother when the baker’s roundsman pulled up in one of these and gave us both a lift into town.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morrison- … ozz13x.jpg

cav551:
I remember as a small child standing at the bus stop in the pouring rain with my mother when the baker’s roundsman pulled up in one of these and gave us both a lift into town.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morrison- … ozz13x.jpg

! What about that 2nd picture on your link?
An electric float on the 1995 Beaujolais run!

jshepguis:
Then they went to the OHC Pinto,s our breakdown works van twin wheel long wheelbase 2 litre which fair shifted. Main problem with OHC was the oil spray bar for the camshaft which could block therefore cam followers starved of lubrication and wear away producing a lovely loud tapping noise!
This is where with just a little thought in the engine design for repair Ford didn’t help, as to remove cam from the head it had to be fitted ,removed from the rear due to different size bearing runners, so you had to take head off for a camshaft renewal. It was still a pretty straight forward task as long as you also had the 2 off special splined cam belt adjuster sockets.

The good news is that some designs used split bearing caps allowing the cam to be lifted away from the head.The bad news is usually because the cam had to be removed to adjust the valve clearances and/or to get at the head bolts. :laughing:
Not sure about the BMC O series in the Sherpa in that regard but going by the cam cover it looked like one of those types.
Also knew of plenty of examples of the Pinto rightly being replaced with previous cross flow push rod types in Mk3 Cortinas.
As in the case of the Transit the Essex V6 was also a much better motor than either the Pinto or the V4 therefore another go to option for conversions wherever the latter types were fitted cars or vans.