Carryfast:
I was actually referring to the issue of anyone amongst the working class ‘agreeing’ to disagree with the idea that there is something wrong about calling for,or even jointly striking for,rate/price fixing to stop the issue of the erosion of wages,terms and conditions being used as a method of competition between individual employers.
It’s that ‘agreement’,instead of keeping up the 1970’s attitude of total united disagreement,backed by industrial action,which is why the unions and the working class,that they are supposed to represent and as a result the economy,are where they are now.
Er. You’ve just done it again I’ve no dog in this fight. I was trying to suggest you guys agree to disagree?!
Are we even having the same conv…Oh never mind…
There is nothing to agree to disagree about.
The argument is simply that weeto ( correctly ) pointed out the need for rate/price cooperation/fixing between individual employers in order to improve the wage situation.
Stevie then replied with an inference that such ‘fixing’ would fit the definition of ‘cartel’ and damage ‘competition’.While ‘also’ making the contradictory agreement that under cutting of wage rates between employers damages the economy.
Carryfast:
There is nothing to agree to disagree about.
The argument is simply that weeto ( correctly ) pointed out the need for rate/price cooperation/fixing between individual employers in order to improve the wage situation.
Stevie then replied with an inference that such ‘fixing’ would fit the definition of ‘cartel’ and damage ‘competition’.While ‘also’ making the contradictory agreement that under cutting of wage rates between employers damages the economy.
I hope for your sake you’re trolling!!
Feel free to explain which part of that I’ve got wrong and why.
Carryfast:
There is nothing to agree to disagree about.
The argument is simply that weeto ( correctly ) pointed out the need for rate/price cooperation/fixing between individual employers in order to improve the wage situation.
Stevie then replied with an inference that such ‘fixing’ would fit the definition of ‘cartel’ and damage ‘competition’.While ‘also’ making the contradictory agreement that under cutting of wage rates between employers damages the economy.
I hope for your sake you’re trolling!!
Feel free to explain which part of that I’ve got wrong and why.
Oh my god, you’re not
I have done, several times, read the thread from scratch, with a open mind
Carryfast:
There is nothing to agree to disagree about.
The argument is simply that weeto ( correctly ) pointed out the need for rate/price cooperation/fixing between individual employers in order to improve the wage situation.
Stevie then replied with an inference that such ‘fixing’ would fit the definition of ‘cartel’ and damage ‘competition’.While ‘also’ making the contradictory agreement that under cutting of wage rates between employers damages the economy.
I hope for your sake you’re trolling!!
Feel free to explain which part of that I’ve got wrong and why.
Oh my god, you’re not
I have done, several times, read the thread from scratch, with a open mind
I did read the thread.As I said feel free to explain what I’ve got wrong about what you’ve written here.
I’m a member of unite and it feels reassuring having a good shop steward in your corner for any issues you may have, also legal backup if you require. You can also take insurance in case you lose your licence something I’ve not opted for myself though.
Shop steward says jump and the office staff say how high, so we generally don’t get any crap from the office the way other firms do.
They are also going for quite a monumental pay rise this year and if they even get quarter of what they want I will be extremely happy. For only 3 quid a week I think it’s worth it, but you need every driver to be in it so it’s as strong as it can be.
Only thing I don’t like is unite sending you texts basically telling you who you should vote for in either local elections or national. I just delete them and pay no notice.
weeto:
Like drivers, the vehicle owners won’t stick together to get a good deal for the whole industry, they are as much to blame for the situation its in as us as drivers are.
Rate cutting to get a poorly paid contract doesn’t help anyone.
The only thing that will help this industry as a whole is for the rates employers are getting being increased, more profit = more money available to pay drivers a better wage with better working conditions.
Dont believe it? spend a £1 and get a copy of your companies accounts and be suprised by the lack of profit they are making on the massive turn over they are declaring.
I did this once, before I asked for a pay rise, knowing they were struggling, just to see what they would say, and they were honest and said they couldnt afford to pay any more.
Profit goes towards investment in the company, with no investment there’s no future.
I’ve seen accounts for a haulage company which had a £15 million turnover return only £80,000 profit, not much money left there to give 100 staff a wage rise.
do you want a cartel?
do you shop around at renewal time for your car insurance?
he says firms are at fault for not sticking together no mention of standard drivers wage
rate cutting and poor paying contracts doesn’t help anyone no mention of standard drivers wage
employers need increased rates no mention of standard drivers wage
better rate = more profit= more money available to pay better and give better conditions no mention of standard drivers wage
his own experience of the profitability at a firm he worked for no mention of standard drivers wage
so because he’d said firms are at fault for not sticking together and cutting rates, i asked if he wanted a cartel, i think that is a reasonable question given what he’d said and what a cartel is - there was no mention of a standard drivers rate in what he said and i never mentioned it in the question.
when i asked him to clarify what he meant by sticking together, he cited the fuel protests,
i’ve not seen anywhere that weeto has talked about a standard drivers wages, you say he has
weeto:
Like drivers, the vehicle owners won’t stick together to get a good deal for the whole industry, they are as much to blame for the situation its in as us as drivers are.
Rate cutting to get a poorly paid contract doesn’t help anyone.
The only thing that will help this industry as a whole is for the rates employers are getting being increased, more profit = more money available to pay drivers a better wage with better working conditions.
Dont believe it? spend a £1 and get a copy of your companies accounts and be suprised by the lack of profit they are making on the massive turn over they are declaring.
I did this once, before I asked for a pay rise, knowing they were struggling, just to see what they would say, and they were honest and said they couldnt afford to pay any more.
Profit goes towards investment in the company, with no investment there’s no future.
I’ve seen accounts for a haulage company which had a £15 million turnover return only £80,000 profit, not much money left there to give 100 staff a wage rise.
do you want a cartel?
do you shop around at renewal time for your car insurance?
he says firms are at fault for not sticking together no mention of standard drivers wage
rate cutting and poor paying contracts doesn’t help anyone no mention of standard drivers wage
employers need increased rates no mention of standard drivers wage
better rate = more profit= more money available to pay better and give better conditions no mention of standard drivers wage
his own experience of the profitability at a firm he worked for no mention of standard drivers wage
so because he’d said firms are at fault for not sticking together and cutting rates, i asked if he wanted a cartel, i think that is a reasonable question given what he’d said and what a cartel is - there was no mention of a standard drivers rate in what he said and i never mentioned it in the question.
when i asked him to clarify what he meant by sticking together, he cited the fuel protests,
i’ve not seen anywhere that weeto has talked about a standard drivers wages, you say he has
If you really must split hairs about the statement it really doesn’t take a genius to put ‘‘the vehicle owners won’t stick together to get a good deal’’ ( IE fixing rates between them ) together with ‘’ = more money available to pay drivers a better wage and better working conditions’'.Effectively means the same thing as an industry specific minimum wage increase using a system of joint rate fixing to get it.IE effectively just what Hoffa did in 1964 with the Master Freight Agreement.Don’t blame me because neither you nor weeto seem to be able to understand,that fixing rates to just create a decent minimum wage structure in the industry,isn’t a cartel.Whereas fixing rates overall certainly is.
weeto:
No, I gave up posting when you and carryfast started talking [zb]!!
To be fair the finer points,concerning the difference between rate fixing to create a union imposed decent minimum wage,as opposed to overall revenues, seemed to be off your radar when replying to stevie’s zb about so called cartels.
weeto:
Like drivers, the vehicle owners won’t stick together to get a good deal for the whole industry, they are as much to blame for the situation its in as us as drivers are.
Rate cutting to get a poorly paid contract doesn’t help anyone.
The only thing that will help this industry as a whole is for the rates employers are getting being increased, more profit = more money available to pay drivers a better wage with better working conditions.
Dont believe it? spend a £1 and get a copy of your companies accounts and be suprised by the lack of profit they are making on the massive turn over they are declaring.
I did this once, before I asked for a pay rise, knowing they were struggling, just to see what they would say, and they were honest and said they couldnt afford to pay any more.
Profit goes towards investment in the company, with no investment there’s no future.
I’ve seen accounts for a haulage company which had a £15 million turnover return only £80,000 profit, not much money left there to give 100 staff a wage rise.
do you want a cartel?
do you shop around at renewal time for your car insurance?
he says firms are at fault for not sticking together no mention of standard drivers wage
rate cutting and poor paying contracts doesn’t help anyone no mention of standard drivers wage
employers need increased rates no mention of standard drivers wage
better rate = more profit= more money available to pay better and give better conditions no mention of standard drivers wage
his own experience of the profitability at a firm he worked for no mention of standard drivers wage
so because he’d said firms are at fault for not sticking together and cutting rates, i asked if he wanted a cartel, i think that is a reasonable question given what he’d said and what a cartel is - there was no mention of a standard drivers rate in what he said and i never mentioned it in the question.
when i asked him to clarify what he meant by sticking together, he cited the fuel protests,
i’ve not seen anywhere that weeto has talked about a standard drivers wages, you say he has
If you really must split hairs about the statement it really doesn’t take a genius to put ‘‘the vehicle owners won’t stick together to get a good deal’’ ( IE fixing rates between them ) together with ‘’ = more money available to pay drivers a better wage and better working conditions’'.Effectively means the same thing as an industry specific minimum wage increase using a system of joint rate fixing to get it.IE effectively just what Hoffa did in 1964 with the Master Freight Agreement.Don’t blame me because neither you nor weeto seem to be able to understand,that fixing rates to just create a decent minimum wage structure in the industry,isn’t a cartel.Whereas fixing rates overall certainly is.
now i know you don’t have the greatest reputation on here, but i thought you were brighter than this.
effectively it doesn’t mean the same thing!
but we did get there in the end well done carryfast, it takes a big man to hold his hands up
merc0447:
They are also going for quite a monumental pay rise this year and if they even get quarter of what they want I will be extremely happy.
Only thing I don’t like is unite sending you texts basically telling you who you should vote for in either local elections or national. I just delete them and pay no notice.
The latter,concerning the union’s support of an anti road transport government policy,being the contradiction which will probably defeat the object of the former.
IE from the guvnor’s ( justified ) point of view it is all about rip off fuel taxation and getting a government policy in place which wants to increase demand for road transport as opposed to trying to tax as many trucks as possible off the road.
stevieboy308:
now i know you don’t have the greatest reputation on here, but i thought you were brighter than this.
effectively it doesn’t mean the same thing!
but we did get there in the end well done carryfast, it takes a big man to hold his hands up
Hold my hands up to what exactly.In the case of realising that what weeto was describing was something along the lines of The Master Freight Agreement it’s you who needs to admit defeat.While it isn’t my fault if weeto obviously doesn’t/didn’t know enough about union history to realise it himself.
stevieboy308:
now i know you don’t have the greatest reputation on here, but i thought you were brighter than this.
effectively it doesn’t mean the same thing!
but we did get there in the end well done carryfast, it takes a big man to hold his hands up
Hold my hands up to what exactly.In the case of realising that what weeto was describing was something along the lines of The Master Freight Agreement it’s you who needs to admit defeat.While it isn’t my fault if weeto obviously doesn’t/didn’t know enough about union history to realise it himself.
dude, you’re in the keep net, but don’t worry i’m not gonna donk you over the head, i’ll throw you back in
well done again carryfast, you big little ■■■■■■ you!
I am migrant but my wages about 11 pound per hours on Paye.but to many British work for 6.50.to many migrant have much better car than some British.all depend.
Andrejs:
I am migrant but my wages about 11 pound per hours on Paye.but to msny British work gor 6.50.to many migrant have much better car than some British.all depend.
Sorry to say it but you really are no good at trolling, In fact you appear to be a bigger ■■■■ than your pretend foreign writing. May I suggest you try this on the beano web site a few 6 or 7 year olds might fall for it,.,.,. Now please leave us proper Adults alone and get back to playing with the barby doll.,.,
To be fair that does sound like classic trolling. The foreign lads I ever met on the road wouldn’t come out with crap like that and if you were from far lands and not great with written English, I doubt you’d pair 4 consonants together such as “msny” .
Your shunt button post, if trolling was a better topic and poor trolling, as netted a few classic tales of shunt button madness from the ole boys and quite a useful thing to cover. See Boss and Driver or his alter ego McThackeray for lesson on how to troll. Unless you are boss and driver…
Sorry for some mistakes.i now at my great job-lgv driver.i ready sleep 3 hours at Turners (Soham).waiting for load here.great job I sleep nut get some 35 quid.What job as well can sleep and get money■■?
I wonder how many jobs there would be in the UK now if the big unions were still crippling our industries (British Leyland for example). The companies that are investing big money in UK (JLR/BMW/Volkswagen etc etc) do so because we now have a stable workforce that they can rely on to come and work every day and get on with the job. Our manufacturing industry did not just go into decline just because of cheap foreign competition. Apart from probably a handful of traditional transport I expect most do not have much spare money or incentive to increase wages so long as there is an abundance of drivers. Also it is not fair to blame the immigrant drivers from the EU for perceived low wages, they are only doing what our brickies did in the 70’s (Auf Weidersen Pet)
I’ve no dog in this fight. I was trying to suggest you guys agree to disagree?!
