Trump was never talking about getting rid of immigration, but enforcement of the immigration law that already exists in an effort to curb illegal immigrants, there’s a big difference!
[zb]
anorak:newmercman:
With a Republican President, House and Senate there doesn’t appear to be much chance of socialist crap getting passed in America for the next 4/8yrs, the same socialist ideals that have strangled the economy in the US and UK for the past 8yrs. Trump getting in and more importantly, the Republican majority in both the House and Senate is a good thing.Trump’s desire to limit immigration is, effectively, a socialist agenda- the market’s reaction to a reduction in the supply of labour will be an increase in the price of labour, so the gap between rich and poor, within America, will reduce. The gap between the American poor and the Mexican poor may increase, but so what- those people’s welfare is the responsibility of the Mexican Government. How far Trump takes it will be limited by how well America’s working class perform. If they start mucking about like the GB miners and car workers in the 1970’s, the stick-to-carrot ratio may have to increase again.
The left/right distinction has become a cliché. I’m glad someone has come along, from outside the oil/banking/military establishment, hopefully to ignore their accepted norms. This is possibly the most significant political change I have observed in my half-century or so. Good luck Mr. Trump.
You’ve missed the point that ironically the establishment has had to realise the idea of higher paid US jobs for higher paid US workers actually proves that those so called ‘militants’ of the 1970’s were right.IE the ‘significant’ change that you’re referring to is that unsurprisingly the Victorian race to the bottom low wage type of Capitalism has failed catastrophically and ironically it’s the Republicans who’ve realised it.Which is how the Democrats lost the blue collar vote.On that note hopefully Trump isn’t going to be stupid enough to bring back those lost jobs by imposing trade barriers and then defeating the object by expecting American workers to accept Mexican type wages when he’s done it. 
The fact is we’re now at the make or break tipping point,between the realisation of the difference between a return to Fordist Capitalist economic principles,or more of the same.Just as the 1970’s were the tipping point where those Fordist principles were abandoned which is why the western economies are where they are now.Bearing in mind that US workers were blamed for ‘militancy’ in that regard just the same as their Brit counterparts were,as a scapegoat to facilitate that stupid change in economic policy.
newmercman:
Trump was never talking about getting rid of immigration, but enforcement of the immigration law that already exists in an effort to curb illegal immigrants, there’s a big difference!
As with the other criticisms levelled at him, the truth is probably not as bad. I guess the US has, like GB, allowed a calculated number of “illegal” immigrants and/or refugees in, to add extra business to the economy.
[zb]
anorak:
I guess the US has, like GB, allowed a calculated number of “illegal” immigrants and/or refugees in, to add extra business to the economy.
How does anything which puts extra load on social costs together with downward pressure on incomes create ‘extra business’.Especially when it’s combined with the export of jobs to the cheap labour economies that the economic migrants have run away from.
Retired Old ■■■■:
You started it! You should have considered the consequences before waking up the slumbering giant from Leatherhead.
Another thought ROF I may have set our PC mate off again from North of the Border and he will soon pile in defending our old mucker from Leatherhead who we both know doesn’t require any defending as he is more than capable of doing that himself 
Cheers Bewick.
Bewick:
Will it be a replay of our Brexit vote result ? Bewick.
With your forecasting talent the eurolottery will be a walkover Dennis lol .
rigsby:
Bewick:
Will it be a replay of our Brexit vote result ? Bewick.With your forecasting talent the eurolottery will be a walkover Dennis lol .
I’m really not a fan of either of them but Its’ like buying a second hand motor you don’t know if it’s any good until you’ve had it for about 6 months
Tony
rastone:
rigsby:
Bewick:
Will it be a replay of our Brexit vote result ? Bewick.With your forecasting talent the eurolottery will be a walkover Dennis lol .
I’m really not a fan of either of them but Its’ like buying a second hand motor you don’t know if it’s any good until you’ve had it for about 6 months
Tony
Difference is, with a second hand motor if it’s a lemon you can get rid in 6 months, with the US president you have to put up with it for 4 years
rastone:
I’m really not a fan of either of them but Its’ like buying a second hand motor you don’t know if it’s any good until you’ve had it for about 6 monthsTony
You can’t take Trump back for a refund though Tony! Can’t stand the bloke myself, he doesn’t want immigrants (presumably though his family were and the current Mrs trump certainly is) he takes the ■■■■ out of disabled folk and treats women like they are sub human, not my idea of a person to look up to at all.
Peter.
Carryfast:
[zb]
anorak:
I guess the US has, like GB, allowed a calculated number of “illegal” immigrants and/or refugees in, to add extra business to the economy.How does anything which puts extra load on social costs together with downward pressure on incomes create ‘extra business’.Especially when it’s combined with the export of jobs to the cheap labour economies that the economic migrants have run away from.
“Downward pressure on incomes” makes business more profitable, so more of it tends to get done. The import of extra people means more customers, so it’s a win/win for the people who have an interest in business. I don’t necessarily approve of it- it is just an observation.
That last sentence disagrees with itself- if you import people to do jobs cheaply, thereby generating the need for more work to be done, how are jobs exported?
[zb]
anorak:Carryfast:
[zb]
anorak:
I guess the US has, like GB, allowed a calculated number of “illegal” immigrants and/or refugees in, to add extra business to the economy.How does anything which puts extra load on social costs together with downward pressure on incomes create ‘extra business’.Especially when it’s combined with the export of jobs to the cheap labour economies that the economic migrants have run away from.
“Downward pressure on incomes” makes business more profitable, so more of it tends to get done. The import of extra people means more customers, so it’s a win/win for the people who have an interest in business. I don’t necessarily approve of it- it is just an observation.
That last sentence disagrees with itself- if you import people to do jobs cheaply, thereby generating the need for more work to be done, how are jobs exported?
Downward pressure on incomes actually just results in lower economic growth and a reduction in living standards.IE low disposable incomes means less sales and less profit not more.In addition to creating demand for low cost imports made by even cheaper labour in Mexico and Asia for what is sold and adding to the trade deficit which creates national debt and adding to the problems of economic migration.Thereby increasing the supply and reducing the demand for labour in the domestic economy even more and thereby adding to the unemployment numbers and reducing wage levels for what jobs remain even more.While also diluting the ethnic Brit colonial demographic.In addition to the fact that low paid or unemployed workers can’t afford the premiums/taxes for their health care/unemployment cover/retirement funds.While more immigrants means more demand for all those.
Which more or less explains Trump’s blue collar vote wot won it which is actually all about the working class realising that Socialism and workers of the world unite doesn’t work when its nationalism and protectionism that’s needed.On that note this is make or break time in that Trump has to now deliver on his promises in that regard.In which case a statement that post Fordist race to the bottom global free market economics have failed to be replaced with protectionist policies,would be good to hear from him about now.Nor is this just an American thing. 
rigsby:
Bewick:
Will it be a replay of our Brexit vote result ? Bewick.With your forecasting talent the eurolottery will be a walkover Dennis lol .
Send me “the brown envelope” Dave and I’ll send you the winning numbers by return ! Dennis.
windrush:
rastone:
I’m really not a fan of either of them but Its’ like buying a second hand motor you don’t know if it’s any good until you’ve had it for about 6 monthsTony
You can’t take Trump back for a refund though Tony! Can’t stand the bloke myself, he doesn’t want immigrants (presumably though his family were and the current Mrs trump certainly is) he takes the ■■■■ out of disabled folk and treats women like they are sub human, not my idea of a person to look up to at all.
Peter.
Quite right Pete
rastone:
windrush:
You can’t take Trump back for a refund though Tony! Can’t stand the bloke myself, he doesn’t want immigrants (presumably though his family were and the current Mrs trump certainly is) he takes the ■■■■ out of disabled folk and treats women like they are sub human, not my idea of a person to look up to at all.Peter.
Quite right Pete
It’s actually his electorate who’ve got justified reservations about continuing open door immigration.You know the same electorate who’ve just kicked Hilary out of the race.Especially when that immigration is in large part a deliberate circumvention of the immigration controls with the intention of changing voter demographics to benefit the bleedin democrat Party’s electoral chances.As for supposedly treating women as sub human he’s got a wife and family who all seem to have no problem with him.Not to mention the women for Trump supporter group.
Carryfast:
[zb]
anorak:
I guess the US has, like GB, allowed a calculated number of “illegal” immigrants and/or refugees in, to add extra business to the economy.Downward pressure on incomes actually just results in lower economic growth and a reduction in living standards.IE low disposable incomes means less sales …In addition to the fact that low paid or unemployed workers can’t afford the premiums/taxes for their health care/unemployment cover/retirement funds.While more immigrants means more demand for all those…
The low paid immigrants don’t have a disposable income. They eat, s**t, wear tat, live in otherwise unrentable flats and do jobs to furnish themselves with those things. Businesses take a profit out of that process. If a country is importing cheap goods made by slaves, why not just import the slaves and make the profit locally? Of course the immigrants use public services, but the business sector does not care about that. If the government wants to make “growth”, immigration is the easy option. As I said, I do not necessarily approve of it. It looks as if the new American president is promising to take a less easy option. As I said, good luck Mr. Trump.
[zb]
anorak:
The low paid immigrants don’t have a disposable income. They eat, s**t, wear tat, live in otherwise unrentable flats and do jobs to furnish themselves with those things. Businesses take a profit out of that process. If a country is importing cheap goods made by slaves, why not just import the slaves and make the profit locally?
Not exactly the American dream is it.
Meanwhile dedicated to the rust belt Trump voters. 
Spud1960:
rastone:
rigsby:
Bewick:
Will it be a replay of our Brexit vote result ? Bewick.With your forecasting talent the eurolottery will be a walkover Dennis lol .
I’m really not a fan of either of them but Its’ like buying a second hand motor you don’t know if it’s any good until you’ve had it for about 6 months
Tony
Difference is, with a second hand motor if it’s a lemon you can get rid in 6 months, with the US president you have to put up with it for 4 years
Not necessarily Spud as Donald said about Hilary, we have always got the second amendment folks, the second amendment.
I think that’s American speak for if you don’t like somebody, then you can shoot them.
I was driving to work yesterday morning listening to 5 live whilst the election was nearing its conclusion when an “expert” voiced his thoughts on 1 of the areas Trump had won . He said Trump had won that area because uneducated white men had voted for him , this reminded me of some of the comments after the Brexit vote when the people of northern england who were also not the sharpest tools in the box had voted out , it seems to me when the pc brigade don`t get what they want they let their guard down , could you imagine the uproar if Trump had called black men uneducated for voting Clinton , in a democracy the majority vote wins so the majority of people in the USA want Trump rather than Clinton just like over here the majority voted out so why cant it be accepted … Oh by the way if i was an American i would vote Trump
Carryfast:
It’s actually his electorate who’ve got justified reservations about continuing open door immigration.You know the same electorate who’ve just kicked Hilary out of the race.Especially when that immigration is in large part a deliberate circumvention of the immigration controls with the intention of changing voter demographics to benefit the bleedin democrat Party’s electoral chances.As for supposedly treating women as sub human he’s got a wife and family who all seem to have no problem with him.Not to mention the women for Trump supporter group.
[/quote]Women are often attracted to powerful men and bullies Carryfast, even when they treat them like ■■■■?
I wonder why his other marriages failed? If Mrs Trump doesn’t mind his recorded thoughts, and actions, on women he has encountered then he must have some sort of hold over her, I’m pretty certain that Mrs Windrush would have given me my marching orders double quick!
Anyway he is only a figurehead and will have to follow procedure, his ‘backroom staff’ will advise him on the feasability of anymore crackpot ideas he has like the amount of materials he needs to build his Eighth wonder of the World across the Mexican border…
Pete.
