newmercman:
As strange configurations go, this is up there with the strangest.
I believe Bedford did one too.
Sorry mate, but all I can see are blurry photos. Would you mind explaining what on earth is going on here?
(Yes, I’ve been called dense before 
)
GCR2ERF:
Scottish & Newcastle brewery built a prototype front wheel drive rigid dray based around a Bedford TL chassis and named it the ‘Bruce’, after Alan Bruce their Fleet Engineer who started the project. This link (should) illustrate things better;
When I think about it a bit more, it strikes me as peculiar that this front-wheel-drive concept was never developed further; after all, it’s not as if there wasn’t a substantial potential market for - as the article says:
“Quite simply,” said Leyland’s UK operations director Robin Woo[■■■■ at the time, “the Bruce offers potentially the best solution to the distribution dilemma It provides the best combination of loading height and uninterrupted load space, and uses proven components in its front-wheel-drive configuration. Most of all,” he said, “it is not confined to the brewery trade but will appeal to all aspects of urban delivery.”…
Think about it - a low loading height (because the body doesn’t have to clear transmissions and driveshafts and rear axles) means easier manhandling of goods on and off the wagon. Anyone who’s had to haul stuff onto and off a truck by hand would have thought all their Christmases had come at once if they’d had a low-loading height wagon. Not just the brewery blokes but those on drinks distribution, those poor sods who lugged coal, fruit & veg providores… Not forgetting, of course, removals. Imagine a low deck height with a 2000cu.ft body. No more lugging 15cwt wardrobes up over the tailgate and up over the well. Joannas? No drama, just wheel the thing up a gentle ramp and park it between the wheel arches.
(sigh) One can but dream…
Sorry for continuing to rant, but this whole front-wheel-drive thing is rather fascinating me. It would have had applications not only in rigid wagons on distribution (as mentioned above) but also… buses.
As far as I can tell, the most significant reason so many decent, reliable and proven buses based on chassis like the Leyland Leopard and Atlantean, the Bristol RE and VR and so on were scrapped or shipped o/s was because of the mandated requirement for low-floor entry/ exit, which none of these were capable of. As a result, any number of bus chassis makers (M-B, Volvo, MAN, even Hino) have gone to extraordinary lengths to come up with low floor designs, but all are compromises - dumping air out of front air suspension, weird body designs that are prone to being smacked on high kerbs, bizarre seating arrangements and so on. Imagine what a front-wheel-drive chassis could have done for buses - chassis makers could not only have pre-empted the low-floor requirement, they could even have suggested it.
ParkRoyal2100:
GCR2ERF:
Scottish & Newcastle brewery built a prototype front wheel drive rigid dray based around a Bedford TL chassis and named it the ‘Bruce’, after Alan Bruce their Fleet Engineer who started the project. This link (should) illustrate things better;When I think about it a bit more, it strikes me as peculiar that this front-wheel-drive concept was never developed further; after all, it’s not as if there wasn’t a substantial potential market for - as the article says:
“Quite simply,” said Leyland’s UK operations director Robin Woo[■■■■ at the time, “the Bruce offers potentially the best solution to the distribution dilemma It provides the best combination of loading height and uninterrupted load space, and uses proven components in its front-wheel-drive configuration. Most of all,” he said, “it is not confined to the brewery trade but will appeal to all aspects of urban delivery.”…
Think about it - a low loading height (because the body doesn’t have to clear transmissions and driveshafts and rear axles) means easier manhandling of goods on and off the wagon. Anyone who’s had to haul stuff onto and off a truck by hand would have thought all their Christmases had come at once if they’d had a low-loading height wagon. Not just the brewery blokes but those on drinks distribution, those poor sods who lugged coal, fruit & veg providores… Not forgetting, of course, removals. Imagine a low deck height with a 2000cu.ft body. No more lugging 15cwt wardrobes up over the tailgate and up over the well. Joannas? No drama, just wheel the thing up a gentle ramp and park it between the wheel arches.
(sigh) One can but dream…
I know De Rooy of Holland created a few FWD vehicle transporters by taking a 4WD rigid and using only drive to the front axle. Sorry no pictures from me on these, and I recall reading in the trade press that they had a few problems with them.
As regards the Bruce on brewery work, speaking as an ex-drayman I would have loved to have had a go in one! Having said that, I found the Volvo urban artics we had to be the best all-round tool for the job.
ParkRoyal2100:
Sorry for continuing to rant, but this whole front-wheel-drive thing is rather fascinating me. It would have had applications not only in rigid wagons on distribution (as mentioned above) but also… buses.As far as I can tell, the most significant reason so many decent, reliable and proven buses based on chassis like the Leyland Leopard and Atlantean, the Bristol RE and VR and so on were scrapped or shipped o/s was because of the mandated requirement for low-floor entry/ exit, which none of these were capable of. As a result, any number of bus chassis makers (M-B, Volvo, MAN, even Hino) have gone to extraordinary lengths to come up with low floor designs, but all are compromises - dumping air out of front air suspension, weird body designs that are prone to being smacked on high kerbs, bizarre seating arrangements and so on. Imagine what a front-wheel-drive chassis could have done for buses - chassis makers could not only have pre-empted the low-floor requirement, they could even have suggested it.
Berliet/RVI did produce front wheel drive buses back in the 70`s. I think the whole bus was built by them too. The RATP, the Paris transport authority, were using them when I lived there at that time. Doubtless there were other users. I do not have time to Google this at the moment but there will probably be something.
Of course Saviem would have been able to tell us about them.
Both BICC and BT used 4wd Bedfords with the backs modified to carry Wire-reels. The rear wheel axle was replaced by a yoke with free wheel stub axles and the reel suspended between to run off the cable. We did a similar conversion on a Cat. DW21 to pull a water roller. 4wd gave you millions of options - look at 6wheeler caravanettes and market wagons. Jim.
I read this morning in the Vintage Roadscene mag, “The Rare Ones”, of the firm Gilford way back in the '30’s that experimented with a low floor double deck coach with front wheel drive before anyone had even considered front wheel drive.
It only says experimented, not actually produced.
I’ve posted some pic’s on the Saviem thread of a vehicle that perfectly fits on here.
It’s a 8 wheeled rigid low loader based on a DAF 85…with FWD, very rare indeed, most possibly a one off…
Now, one of you clever IT lads have to figure out how I can put the pic’s from the Saviem thread onto this one…
Cheers, Patrick
I suppose this fits in this thread somewhere, how about a 24 X 24 road train!
Don’t know what the transmission layout was.
This was the first Australian road train, a truck built by AEC in the '30’s. to do the job previously done by camel train.
Scroll down to the video.
bestbooties:
I suppose this fits in this thread somewhere, how about a 24 X 24 road train!
Don’t know what the transmission layout was.
This was the first Australian road train, a truck built by AEC in the '30’s. to do the job previously done by camel train.
Scroll down to the video.
This Muller Falkiner prime mover invention was earlier in 1915, two petrol driven generators powered electric motors on the axles of the trailers. I posted more pics here viewtopic.php?f=35&t=94992&start=30.
Oily
Twin engine Ford and a twin engine Bedford.NMP found on the Internet
If my memory is right I understand they were made to test the power needed to power the Transcon.I might be wrong but they made four of these.One went to B.R.S. ( saw this outside the Dog and Partridge in Lower Tean) E.C.C.had one and H.T.S.There was another one but I think that was kept at F.M.C probably for spares.I think it was something not to talk about but it would be cheaper to build than a few Transcos.It was quite an interesting motor and one writer on T.Net said it had two clutch pedals,two gearlevers etc.When lightly loaded it could be powered on one engine.
Here is a copy of an article from a magazine
Tony
rastone:
If my memory is right I understand they were made to test the power needed to power the Transcon.I might be wrong but they made four of these.One went to B.R.S. ( saw this outside the Dog and Partridge in Lower Tean) E.C.C.had one and H.T.S.There was another one but I think that was kept at F.M.C probably for spares.I think it was something not to talk about but it would be cheaper to build than a few Transcos.It was quite an interesting motor and one writer on T.Net said it had two clutch pedals,two gearlevers etc.When lightly loaded it could be powered on one engine.Here is a copy of an article from a magazine
Tony
Just trying to work out how you’d drive it 
! Robert
robert1952:
rastone:
If my memory is right I understand they were made to test the power needed to power the Transcon.I might be wrong but they made four of these.One went to B.R.S. ( saw this outside the Dog and Partridge in Lower Tean) E.C.C.had one and H.T.S.There was another one but I think that was kept at F.M.C probably for spares.I think it was something not to talk about but it would be cheaper to build than a few Transcos.It was quite an interesting motor and one writer on T.Net said it had two clutch pedals,two gearlevers etc.When lightly loaded it could be powered on one engine.Here is a copy of an article from a magazine
Tony
Just trying to work out how you’d drive it
Sorry I was refering to the chap who said it had all the pedals.It was just the same as a conventional controls apart from a transfer box lever
Tony
Most airport fire trucks are configured with engine and gearbox over the back end.
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rastone:
robert1952:
rastone:
If my memory is right I understand they were made to test the power needed to power the Transcon.I might be wrong but they made four of these.One went to B.R.S. ( saw this outside the Dog and Partridge in Lower Tean) E.C.C.had one and H.T.S.There was another one but I think that was kept at F.M.C probably for spares.I think it was something not to talk about but it would be cheaper to build than a few Transcos.It was quite an interesting motor and one writer on T.Net said it had two clutch pedals,two gearlevers etc.When lightly loaded it could be powered on one engine.Here is a copy of an article from a magazine
Tony
Just trying to work out how you’d drive it
Sorry I was refering to the chap who said it had all the pedals.It was just the same as a conventional controls apart from a transfer box lever
Tony
Ah! Thanks. Robert
One for ‘Anorak’ here: an interesting (and quite tastefully executed IMHO) half-cab MAN for overlength timber/steel work (I imagine). I was surprised at the Trilex wheels until I saw the registration plate. Robert
I once saw a FWD Mercedes LP in Germany, it had a near ground level platform and the rear wheels were on stub axles mounted on the chassis rails, which were outside of the platform body thingy.
It brought a forklift to an evacuated service area to offload 3/4s of a load of hazardous that was incompatible with the 1/4 up against the headboard.
As the driver of the vehicle being unloaded I had other more important stuff going on, sitting in the back of a locked police car, being the most important, that I didn’t think to take a photo!
I have seen similar configurations with cable drums on the back, the base lorry was a Bedford KM, I’m thinking it may have been a Reeves Boughton(?) conversion?
newmercman:
I once saw a FWD Mercedes LP in Germany, it had a near ground level platform and the rear wheels were on stub axles mounted on the chassis rails, which were outside of the platform body thingy.It brought a forklift to an evacuated service area to offload 3/4s of a load of hazardous that was incompatible with the 1/4 up against the headboard.
As the driver of the vehicle being unloaded I had other more important stuff going on, sitting in the back of a locked police car, being the most important, that I didn’t think to take a photo!
I have seen similar configurations with cable drums on the back, the base lorry was a Bedford KM, I’m thinking it may have been a Reeves Boughton(?) conversion?
There’s something similar to that LP here, about 3/4 down the page. This one looks as if it could carry a very heavy forklift indeed:
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=109317&start=4290
I reckon this deserves a mention:
flickr.com/photos/brimen/se … 368880798/
What was the outcome of the chemicals/Polizei debacle?
Those Bedford cable reel lorries ring a bell. I have had a look around the place, but no joy yet.
The Polizei took me to their house whilst it was all getting sorted, it started when I got pulled in for a document check, the hazchem labels were like a red rag to a bull. First of all I was fined DM200 for having an incorrect flash point on the German translation Tremcard and then it all went mental. The services were evacuated and the unloading crew turned up dressed head to toe in silver hazchem suits, breathing apparatus, the whole hog.
The chemicals themselves were nasty, but not that bad, however put them together and the ■■■■■ matter would hit the rotational ventilation device in a big way.
I had loaded the whole lot as a full load in Switzerland at a Henkel Chemicals plant, they were the ones that had to deal with it and pay all the bills, including the fine.
I went on my merry way with 4plts (16 drums) and DM200 less on my Visa card after paying the fine for the Tremcard!
It wasn’t all bad, I did get treated very well by the coppers and on the ride up to the nick, I asked them what they cleaned their windows with as the rain was beading off with no wipers and it was persisting down and we were flying. They showed me a bottle of Rain X and I’ve used it ever since.
