I can,t say I had any trouble on Taif it was a slow hard climb but as we were empty coming back to Jeddah it was,nt any trouble!! I,m glad to share the stuff in the shoebox as it will probably end up in a skip when I croak it
Me posing out there somewhere
going up Taif look for the Volvo!!
at the top after the town
This is one cracking thread ,and of course if we did not do it we cannot join in, which is good because ,no bulllshiiters we are reading the experience no one else will do again.in my view it needs a special place in the history of men within the uk transport industry.
my one Question is ,who had the bridges and concrete barriers built,and were the transport agencies involved in freight movement consulted as where they were needed most.
deckboypeggy:
This is one cracking thread ,and of course if we did not do it we cannot join in, which is good because ,no bulllshiiters we are reading the experience no one else will do again.in my view it needs a special place in the history of men within the uk transport industry.my one Question is ,who had the bridges and concrete barriers built,and were the transport agencies involved in freight movement consulted as where they were needed most.
Hi
The Saudi Goverment had the roads and bridges built!! Korean construction - poor concrete and they certainly were not built for the axle weight that was being put over them - hence why reconstruction was bent carried out all the time - new roads - put a grader over the base - sand - spray tar on and lay surface - no sub base no drainage - I guess things have changd since
The Saidi Goverment were not involved with goods transportation, except to say that they funded the Merc Tonka trucks to the Local tribes people as a way of keeping them on side
The Goverment were obviously involved in the train development but most land based operations involving overseas were joint ventures
And lastly would I do it again - yes - best experience of my life ( I was only 27) and should have stayed longer - Sudan was nxt in our sights but it was not to be
Hope this helps
Ken broster
robert1952:
A considerable number of photos, now valuable evidence of models now almost extinct, were taken from Villa Trans Arabia, it seems!Robert
Robert - there was another company based in Jeddah - MATTS backed by Inchcape Ldn with a fleet of Volvo F89s white - they were based out of Jeddah and did not get involved with them although they had quite a few nasty accidents - the GM brought one UK drivers bots home in a suit case - that’s all tha was left!!
Also Russell Davies had a joint venture with Fayez Shipping - no input from any of there guys■■?
Ken
Kenb:
robert1952:
A considerable number of photos, now valuable evidence of models now almost extinct, were taken from Villa Trans Arabia, it seems!Robert - there was another company based in Jeddah - MATTS backed by Inchcape Ldn with a fleet of Volvo F89s white - they were based out of Jeddah and did not get involved with them although they had quite a few nasty accidents - the GM brought one UK drivers bots home in a suit case - that’s all tha was left!!
Also Russell Davies had a joint venture with Fayez Shipping - no input from any of there guys■■?
Ken
That’s useful info, Ken. I’ll have a look for leads. Cheers! Robert
Kenb:
deckboypeggy:
This is one cracking thread ,and of course if we did not do it we cannot join in, which is good because ,no bulllshiiters we are reading the experience no one else will do again.in my view it needs a special place in the history of men within the uk transport industry.my one Question is ,who had the bridges and concrete barriers built,and were the transport agencies involved in freight movement consulted as where they were needed most.
Hi
The Saudi Goverment had the roads and bridges built!! Korean construction - poor concrete and they certainly were not built for the axle weight that was being put over them - hence why reconstruction was bent carried out all the time - new roads - put a grader over the base - sand - spray tar on and lay surface - no sub base no drainage - I guess things have changd sinceKen broster
Also Ken, there were no weight restrictions until about 1983, so certainly on the very heavily used single carriageway between Dammam and Riyadh, the Tarmac very quickly sank to match the wheels of the overloaded trucks.
It was like being on railway track, self steering!
John
John West:
Kenb:
deckboypeggy:
This is one cracking thread ,and of course if we did not do it we cannot join in, which is good because ,no bulllshiiters we are reading the experience no one else will do again.in my view it needs a special place in the history of men within the uk transport industry.my one Question is ,who had the bridges and concrete barriers built,and were the transport agencies involved in freight movement consulted as where they were needed most.
Hi
The Saudi Goverment had the roads and bridges built!! Korean construction - poor concrete and they certainly were not built for the axle weight that was being put over them - hence why reconstruction was bent carried out all the time - new roads - put a grader over the base - sand - spray tar on and lay surface - no sub base no drainage - I guess things have changd sinceKen broster
Also Ken, there were no weight restrictions until about 1983, so certainly on the very heavily used single carriageway between Dammam and Riyadh, the Tarmac very quickly sank to match the wheels of the overloaded trucks.
It was like being on railway track, self steering!
John
John. Sounds just like the M6 Tram lines
That Dammam/Riyhad road was a real killer - Arab drivers with that ball of stuff in there cheeks and eyes like organ stops - I wonder how many deaths per year?
Cheers
Ken
Thank you Kenb and John.cricky the Koreans ,you could imagine the joint language making decisions, and just one more question ,purely because i do not know the answer and i am interested …previously posted on another it was stated the the brits did not know how to use the jake brake, as the Americans had not given the correct info on use .
[1] how different was the jake brake from a exhauster,
[2] how was it supposed to have been used
[3] .was it to do with the driver using the correct gear ,revs,etc as it reads as if the weight ratio to the foot brakes was not good [brake fade]plus terrain,
[4] and how come the filipinos could use them properly ,as i have read previously,they seemed to have had to been brit trained,although the americans run the Philippians ,maybe their trucks were being used in the philippians.
thanks dbp
deckboypeggy:
Thank you Kenb and John.cricky the Koreans ,you could imagine the joint language making decisions, and just one more question ,purely because i do not know the answer and i am interested …previously posted on another it was stated the the brits did not know how to use the jake brake, as the Americans had not given the correct info on use .
[1] how different was the jake brake from a exhauster,
[2] how was it supposed to have been used
[3] .was it to do with the driver using the correct gear ,revs,etc as it reads as if the weight ratio to the foot brakes was not good [brake fade]plus terrain,
[4] and how come the filipinos could use them properly ,as i have read previously,they seemed to have had to been brit trained,although the americans run the Philippians ,maybe their trucks were being used in the philippians.
thanks dbp
Hi - I will attempt to answer your questions - I am not that detailed on engineering so may well be corrected by Mr Cook and Mr Hawkins
1 The Jake brake is very different to a an exhauster - the exhauster is a flap within the exhaust pipe that closes off the exhaust gases exiting and throttles the engine - the Jake brake is a mechanical set up fitted to to the head and suppresses the exhaust valves within the engine - very efficient and much more expensive.
2.the Jake brake is operated by a heel switch on the floor and can be operated quite easily. On, off, on off as the driver requires when slowing down
The Mack devise was a switch on the dashboard ( not sure if they also had a foot operated switch) and could only be switched on within certain Rev limits ie if you switch on beyond a certain Revs it would cause valve float whereby the exhaust valves would meet the piston heads repeatedly and destroy them which is what happened to the Trans Arabia Macks - when the heads were lifted - the Pistons were in pieces in the sump - just the conrods sticking up - quite a shock!! When you first see it.
The British drivers were used to the Jake Brake not the Mack system - the Philippino drivers were quite used to American trucks as they are the norm in the Philippines.
We really did not have to do any training of the Phillipino drivers as they were very experienced and some had worked in other overseas locations in fact I would say that most Philipinno drivers were better than the Brits and looked after there vehicles much better and were much more willing to work and help maintain there vehicles
The real issue with Mack engine brake system was that they did not tell us the technical difference between the systems.
Coming to operations - I came down Taif mountain with Goggi in one of the first 6 x 4 ERF new cab with a road train loaded with BP oil drumss(full) probably about 60tons cargo weight 95tons gross - he selected a ow gear at the top and used the Jake brake on and off all the way down - a good decent down but I have to say my heart was in my rear end!! However I have to say Gogi Robathan was one of our very good Brit drivers with loads of experience. Having said that I remember him telling me of a huge mistake he had made traveling north from Jeddah towards Medina with a road train loaded with 80tons rebar (110 tons gross) the mountains n that route are not so severe as Taif - he knocked it out of stick on a decent and lost his bottle as it got out of control gathering speed - tried to get it back in gear and it would not go- so started feathering the brakes - looking in his mirrors he could see the brakes coming on on the rest of the 2nd trailer, then the bogie and then the first trailer - he said it was a most frightening experience as he thought the lot was going to get in a heap on top of him - brown stuff all the way.
Goggi RIP mate
Hope that fills you in a bit
Ken Broster
Ken ,Thank you very much a most detailed explanation ,and yes i do now get it ,and if you said to me, now explain it back to you i would not be able to, however in my head i now know the difference and get the system .
Were the spanish at that time using retarders,? in the1970s, as they would have been the dogs…as weight was not a problem…yes a frighting experience to be trundling down a mountain .THANK YOU AGAIN.
my own fear was going up and over some of the not so popular spanish mountains.but the right gear, was key forget the others pushing you.
It think i could have done the job if i was single back then however married early [21, ]1965 so i have to get it all from this site,and admire what
a lot of drivers did do.
I would say the majority of men, then out there ,had to be very mechanically minded ,and inventive.i cannot distinguish who of you contributors to this site were engineers [mechanics] or just drivers with a common sense.as when you post you can tell that you all mucked in, and looked after each other reguarding status.
Jake brake brilliant invention turns engine into a compressor ,The ■■■■■■■ engine was an engineering marvel. By two chaps , one was ■■■■■■■ the other Jacob, the idea was talked about in a taxi ride,to the air port Jacob was the driver and they got talking ,both men where engineers in need of a venture !! ■■■■■■■ told him about this three lobe camshaft idea it was so simple to understand! that they developed this engine using the third cam on the same camshaft to lift and return a spring loaded injector and this was how P T system came into being P was pressure T was timed together with a governor this worked . After more development they had a engine that was stronger than most ,Jacob invented the Jake brake specifically to fit this engine and this to,was the best ! It is just like a set of very substantion rockers that was bolted onto the head above the originals ,the setting was “critical” and was timed up on the base circle of the camshaft with both valves closed ,in the fire order the electric solenoids controlled the valves so that more air could go into the cylinder at the start of the exhaust stroke this would then be compressed on 2 or 4 or more cylinders, Giving the driver a fantastic feeling of safe control on steep mountain rds ,JD and myself where so pleased to fit these engine brakes !! Making sure that our drivers where as safe as we could make them ,knowing the Heavy loads we carried in this unavoidable terrain ? Tony Cope came in from Damman loaded heavy, I said how’s the Jake brake TC knowing that he had just come down the mountain ,he said great but there’s a noise from the back axle, on investigation withdrawing. The half shaft From the the hub reduction i found the splines had severe damage at the diff end stripping out the diff I found the planet gears had broken up inside the the crown housing ,and had locked the axle inconstant drive .This could have been catastrophic had, the half shaft broken, and it was very close to being striped of the splines this could have resulted of another wreck coming down the mountain to Jedda ,TC did not know how close he had come to grief?to the lay man even with a jake, with nothing to hold back this would have been useless, over loading was cause of lots of problems ,In my opinion ,But to have KB to say our lads were not as good as the philapeanos is out of order,our lads where fantastic ,By the way I said to Gogi did you really bring that loaded road train down Tief ? He said no,!! he left one at the top ,and dropped it at the bottom then went back up to collect the second ? I said I only wandered ,if the air tanks had the capacity to feed the 16 brake chambers with the the constant brake applications and wether the compressor could cope? But this must have been another 95tonload RIP Photo of TCs ERF with the jake brake badge on the front ,to be continued RON
Very informative, Ron. Thanks! Robert
ronhawk:
0
I see that the Trans Arabia in Arabic in blank!!! I remember asking Salmine Binmafoze what the Arabic signing in our original vehicle said?? Reply. Nothing is was jibberish which did not surprise me - the sign writing on the Kenworths were correct as it was done locally but not written like our sign writers do it - another story!!
Correct Arabic name for Trans Arabia A sherakat arbra algerze - Across the Abrabian Peninsula
Another bit of useless info
Ken broster
ronhawk:
Jake brake brilliant invention turns engine into a compressor ,The ■■■■■■■ engine was an engineering marvel. By two chaps , one was ■■■■■■■ the other Jacob, the idea was talked about in a taxi ride,to the air port Jacob was the driver and they got talking ,both men where engineers in need of a venture !! ■■■■■■■ told him about this three lobe camshaft idea it was so simple to understand! that they developed this engine using the third cam on the same camshaft to lift and return a spring loaded injector and this was how P T system came into being P was pressure T was timed together with a governor this worked . After more development they had a engine that was stronger than most ,Jacob invented the Jake brake specifically to fit this engine and this to,was the best ! It is just like a set of very substantion rockers that was bolted onto the head above the originals ,the setting was “critical” and was timed up on the base circle of the camshaft with both valves closed ,in the fire order the electric solenoids controlled the valves so that more air could go into the cylinder at the start of the exhaust stroke this would then be compressed on 2 or 4 or more cylinders, Giving the driver a fantastic feeling of safe control on steep mountain rds ,JD and myself where so pleased to fit these engine brakes !! Making sure that our drivers where as safe as we could make them ,knowing the Heavy loads we carried in this unavoidable terrain ? Tony Cope came in from Damman loaded heavy, I said how’s the Jake brake TC knowing that he had just come down the mountain ,he said great but there’s a noise from the back axle, on investigation withdrawing. The half shaft From the the hub reduction i found the splines had severe damage at the diff end stripping out the diff I found the planet gears had broken up inside the the crown housing ,and had locked the axle inconstant drive .This could have been catastrophic had, the half shaft broken, and it was very close to being striped of the splines this could have resulted of another wreck coming down the mountain to Jedda ,TC did not know how close he had come to grief?to the lay man even with a jake, with nothing to hold back this would have been useless, over loading was cause of lots of problems ,In my opinion ,But to have KB to say our lads were not as good as the philapeanos is out of order,our lads where fantastic ,By the way I said to Gogi did you really bring that loaded road train down Tief ? He said no,!! he left one at the top ,and dropped it at the bottom then went back up to collect the second ? I said I only wandered ,if the air tanks had the capacity to feed the 12 brake chambers with the the constant brake applications and wether the compressor could cope? But this must have been another 95tonload RIP Photo of TCs ERF with the jake brake badge on the front ,to be continued RON
Compliments Ron! This subject deserves a thread on its own…but I keep following you over here though.
■■■■■■■ and Jacobs were more or less directly family as the nephew of founder Clessie ■■■■■■■ (Don was a son of Clessie’s brother Deloss) was engaged and later married with Roberta Englund who happened to be the daughter of Jacobs vice president Bob Englund. Louis B. Stoner and his brother Arthur M. Stoner were respectively president and vice president (engineering) for Jacobs. Jacobs (acquired by the Chicago Pneumatical Tool Company) was located in West Hartford (Connecticut) and by then a world’s leading maker of drill chucks.
Keep up the good work Ron! A-J
Thank you Ronhawk, excellent information , now i know the difference, you obviously had a busy time while you were out in the M/E.wherever you were .
Some marvellous stuff on the braking systems Ron and Ken, thanks. Most of the seventies built trucks I drove had exhaust brakes which were next to useless - except for stopping the engine if you slipped out of gear! The Scania was perhaps the best of a bad lot. (In my opinion).
I translate the sign outside your villa as ‘Across the country Arabia’
Shereka is the word for company. Arbra I read as across and I thought Algerze or something similar, was island, but perhaps it’s peninsula.
What I liked about Arabic was the realisation that most vowels were unnecessary and almost any vowel can be replaced with a sort of ‘Uh’ sound. So unless it’s a specific sound, it’s simply left out.
As in the word vowel. The o is a distinct ow sound, connecting with the w, but the e is just that generic ‘uh’, so if that word existed in arabic it would just be vowl.
John.
John West:
Some marvellous stuff on the braking systems Ron and Ken, thanks. Most of the seventies built trucks I drove had exhaust brakes which were next to useless - except for stopping the engine if you slipped out of gear! The Scania was perhaps the best of a bad lot. (In my opinion).I translate the sign outside your villa as ‘Across the country Arabia’
Shereka is the word for company. Arbra I read as across and I thought Algerze or something similar, was island, but perhaps it’s peninsula.
What I liked about Arabic was the realisation that most vowels were unnecessary and almost any vowel can be replaced with a sort of ‘Uh’ sound. So unless it’s a specific sound, it’s simply left out.
As in the word vowel. The o is a distinct ow sound, connecting with the w, but the e is just that generic ‘uh’, so if that word existed in arabic it would just be vowl.
John.
You are both more or less right because you are both translating different signs!
This one says: Shirkit a3br il-3arabeeya aljazeera muHuda = company across (trans) Arabian island (peninsula) sincere (professional).
And this one says: a3br il-balad il-3arabeeya = across (trans) the country (of) Arabia.
[The ‘3’ symbol stands for the throaty Ain letter / sound]. Hope that’s helpful! Robert
John West:
Some marvellous stuff on the braking systems Ron and Ken, thanks. Most of the seventies built trucks I drove had exhaust brakes which were next to useless - except for stopping the engine if you slipped out of gear! The Scania was perhaps the best of a bad lot. (In my opinion).I translate the sign outside your villa as ‘Across the country Arabia’
Shereka is the word for company. Arbra I read as across and I thought Algerze or something similar, was island, but perhaps it’s peninsula.
What I liked about Arabic was the realisation that most vowels were unnecessary and almost any vowel can be replaced with a sort of ‘Uh’ sound. So unless it’s a specific sound, it’s simply left out.
As in the word vowel. The o is a distinct ow sound, connecting with the w, but the e is just that generic ‘uh’, so if that word existed in arabic it would just be
John
“Across the Arabian Peninsula”. Was the name - get there in the end
The vehicles sign written in Alridge were by a local sign writer copying a faxed document!!!
Thanks
Ken broster
John.
Talking about Arabic at SARAMAT newcomers were sent to the office to see “Admin Dept” I was looking for him Too■■?
Mah Salam