The essential reason why train drivers earn so much more than truck drivers is that they are highly unionised whereas we are a bunch of union-hating Maggie Thatcher-loving scabs. 
They have always been referred to as train drivers. I just canât see your problem with it. Its not as if they have Knighthoods for driving a train. Its just their job description.
Truckulent:
To those that think driving a train full of people is easyâŚThere is far more to it than meets the eye. Unlike truck driving which is relatively unskilled.
Do you think flying is easy too? After all thereâs very little to hit in the airâŚlook at all that space! Iâm sure there are signposts on clouds as wellâŚ
flying is easy⌠itâs the landing part that is tricky lol
Any landing that you can walk away from is a good one!
Well as a current train driver it does amuse me as to some of the replies on here. In regards to the underground only two lines are automated, thats the central and Victoria. All other lines are completely driven so its all on the driver.
Now I drive for a company that operates across london so im overground not underground and to be honest the underground boys and gals do get a bit of a ribbing from the overground because they dont drive the speeds we do. Believe me when trying to stop a train at 100 mph in the â â â â â â â down rain doesnât work and you end up doing a six mile skid then feel free to slag us train drivers off.
Leaves on the line is a serious problem and when your faced with a red signal and you canât stop because the wheels have completely locked its quite a frightening prospect. In regards to just pushing and pulling the levers etc as was mentioned before we have alot to learn. The signallers control the signals and if they give us a wrong route we have to know and stop or try and stop before it happens.
We have a rule book we have to learn which is the equivalent size of a bible basically lol. Every two years we are tested on it and it equates to roughly 300/350 questions with an 80% pass mark. We also have to learn about the trains inside out, if something fails then its down to us to fix it or try. Obviously there are some things that are way above us in regards to fixing.
The safety side is strict and everything is monitored by a black box. Certain faults come with certain rules laid out in the rule book. Break these and someone get hurts and its in the docks and a cell. Im not trying to big our job up as many people have no true understanding of what we do. Yes the money is good but we can drive for periods of upto six hours without a break and only have to have a 30 min break. Personally it does get boring but its like any job, some good days some bad. At my company the max working day is 10hours so yes in that respect its alot less then road driving jobs but it can be monotonous.
Waiting for the backlash now lol.
Class2ldn:
Well as a current train driver it does amuse me as to some of the replies on here. In regards to the underground only two lines are automated, thats the central and Victoria. All other lines are completely driven so its all on the driver.
Now I drive for a company that operates across london so im overground not underground and to be honest the underground boys and gals do get a bit of a ribbing from the overground because they dont drive the speeds we do. Believe me when trying to stop a train at 100 mph in the â â â â â â â down rain doesnât work and you end up doing a six mile skid then feel free to slag us train drivers off.
Leaves on the line is a serious problem and when your faced with a red signal and you canât stop because the wheels have completely locked its quite a frightening prospect. In regards to just pushing and pulling the levers etc as was mentioned before we have alot to learn. The signallers control the signals and if they give us a wrong route we have to know and stop or try and stop before it happens.
We have a rule book we have to learn which is the equivalent size of a bible basically lol. Every two years we are tested on it and it equates to roughly 300/350 questions with an 80% pass mark. We also have to learn about the trains inside out, if something fails then its down to us to fix it or try. Obviously there are some things that are way above us in regards to fixing.
The safety side is strict and everything is monitored by a black box. Certain faults come with certain rules laid out in the rule book. Break these and someone get hurts and its in the docks and a cell. Im not trying to big our job up as many people have no true understanding of what we do. Yes the money is good but we can drive for periods of upto six hours without a break and only have to have a 30 min break. Personally it does get boring but its like any job, some good days some bad. At my company the max working day is 10hours so yes in that respect its alot less then road driving jobs but it can be monotonous.
Waiting for the backlash now lol.
I donât think youâve said anything that deserves a back lash at all. Youâve made a well balanced and fair point. Itâs good to hear from someone that has direct experience.
Tipper Tom:
I donât think youâve said anything that deserves a back lash at all. Youâve made a well balanced and fair point. Itâs good to hear from someone that has direct experience.
+1
I know itâs not easy operating a train because Iâve taken a ride in the cab of a 1967 stock Victoria line LUL years ago & seen 1st hand what the job is about, I suppose people have to see it to believe itâŚ
The railways not about what you do, itâs about what you know.
That aside, itâs AWS telling you what the signal in advance is, and brakes if you dont aknowledge it.
TPWS will apply the brakes if you are speeding or trying to go through a red.
Yeah the aws gives us about 1.6 seconds to acknowledge it or an emergency brake application applies. We also have a foot pedal called a drivers safety device. If no activity is acknowledged for 1 minute then this starts an audible alarm called the drivers vigilance device so we have to raise our foot and put it back down within about 6/7 seconds or the brakes come on again. Lots of safety devices lol
Forgive my ignorance, if AWS applies the brakes for you after 1.6 seconds of you no acknowledging it, how do you go about taking the brakes off again? The dead man thingy youâre on about, same question, how do you over ride it if for whatever reason you donât acknowledge it.
Dave the Renegade:
They have always been referred to as train drivers. I just canât see your problem with it. Its not as if they have Knighthoods for driving a train. Its just their job description.
Really though, a better job description for a train driver would be âhorizontal lift operatorâ. Just push the button and go. No steering or anything, train drivers donât actually have to balance the thing on those metal rails.
Only joking!
bazza123:
If I can add my two pence, to my knowledge not all of the Underground is automated.In relation to traditional railways, as the son of a railwayman, I know it is a complicated business and is definately not an âattendantâ job.
The eyesight and medical standards are high for entry, and many companies insist on psychometric testing now as well. Operations are governed by the rule book, which must be learned in depth, including electrical supply, signalling, incident management etc
rgsonline.co.uk/rule_book/fo ⌠E1E95DE5C8
Route learning might cover thousands of miles of track, with several different routes. The driver would have to know the location and number of every different bridge, signal and set of points from say, London to Edinburgh. Also weight limits of bridges (yes really!) must be known and the classes of engines and trains which can use them.
The operation of the engine itself and all the likely coupled wagons must be known too, as well as coupling and uncoupling procedures too (which is different for each wagon type too). Safe methods of working and splitting and shunting the train in busy work sites and shunting yards are known too. Track diagrams and very strict timetables are followed too.
Itâs a lot more than pressing a few buttons. Itâs very difficult to get into and with perhaps the safety of 400 people on board, or a full length train of flammable liquids, they canât have just anyone doing it.
Couple of things with this the psychometric testing they do now means that a lot of people are now becoming drivers because they can pass tests, they get degreeâs and train driving is the only thing that pays enough.
I donât think many learn London to Edinburgh maybe half that and now itâs all different companies drivers only stay in there own area so where I live near hull that might be only hull to Sheffield or York. When they go to a city there route is laid out for them on a route they have learned unlike a truck driver who has to drive in a city he has never been in before to a company he has never been to before. They would never be sent from Edinburgh to dover.
To reply to Henryâs cat they maybe earn twice as much as a truck driver but that is for half the hours so therefore 4 times the wage, 20 years ago there wage was no more than anyone else and anyone could get in now every man and his dog want it because of the wage.
Tipper Tom:
Forgive my ignorance, if AWS applies the brakes for you after 1.6 seconds of you no acknowledging it, how do you go about taking the brakes off again? The dead man thingy youâre on about, same question, how do you over ride it if for whatever reason you donât acknowledge it.
Basically what happens is a little red light saying brake application flashes on the tpws panel when the brakes are applied. To reset it you have to press the aws button and it goes a steady red. After 1/2 mins depending on the type of train then the brakes release but you have to inform the signaller first. If you trip one the overspeed grids towards a red then its phone signaller and youll be taken off asap to be questioned in most cases.
Just on a side note I must say I really miss drving the coaches/lorries etc and I hate to say it but its the money thats keeping me here. It is a good job and I didnât start it for the money but its certainky a hard predicament to leave when your getting lots of bonuses.
In relation to the psychometric tests they are changing this month I believe as they were getting too easy to pass because peoole were finding loads of practice material and doing it to death. You only get two fails and its all on a national database so every company in the country has a record of whos passed and failed etc.
Also im going to start looking for some part time class 2 work in surrey /sussex so if anyone knows anywhere give us a shout lol
mac12:
bazza123:
If I can add my two pence, to my knowledge not all of the Underground is automated.In relation to traditional railways, as the son of a railwayman, I know it is a complicated business and is definately not an âattendantâ job.
The eyesight and medical standards are high for entry, and many companies insist on psychometric testing now as well. Operations are governed by the rule book, which must be learned in depth, including electrical supply, signalling, incident management etc
rgsonline.co.uk/rule_book/fo ⌠E1E95DE5C8
Route learning might cover thousands of miles of track, with several different routes. The driver would have to know the location and number of every different bridge, signal and set of points from say, London to Edinburgh. Also weight limits of bridges (yes really!) must be known and the classes of engines and trains which can use them.
The operation of the engine itself and all the likely coupled wagons must be known too, as well as coupling and uncoupling procedures too (which is different for each wagon type too). Safe methods of working and splitting and shunting the train in busy work sites and shunting yards are known too. Track diagrams and very strict timetables are followed too.
Itâs a lot more than pressing a few buttons. Itâs very difficult to get into and with perhaps the safety of 400 people on board, or a full length train of flammable liquids, they canât have just anyone doing it.
Couple of things with this the psychometric testing they do now means that a lot of people are now becoming drivers because they can pass tests, they get degreeâs and train driving is the only thing that pays enough.
I donât think many learn London to Edinburgh maybe half that and now itâs all different companies drivers only stay in there own area so where I live near hull that might be only hull to Sheffield or York. When they go to a city there route is laid out for them on a route they have learned unlike a truck driver who has to drive in a city he has never been in before to a company he has never been to before. They would never be sent from Edinburgh to dover.To reply to Henryâs cat they maybe earn twice as much as a truck driver but that is for half the hours so therefore 4 times the wage, 20 years ago there wage was no more than anyone else and anyone could get in now every man and his dog want it because of the wage.
I was thinking of maybe a freight driver covering several different routes, or covering for staff sickness etc, or perhaps Euro freight through the tunnel etc.
I know previously that sometimes freight drivers would drive somewhere and jump in a van to drive back to the loco at the end of their run, whether that still happens I donât know.
andy187:
Truckulent:
To those that think driving a train full of people is easyâŚThere is far more to it than meets the eye. Unlike truck driving which is relatively unskilled.
Do you think flying is easy too? After all thereâs very little to hit in the airâŚlook at all that space! Iâm sure there are signposts on clouds as wellâŚ
flying is easy⌠itâs the landing part that is tricky lol
Any landing that you can walk away from is a good one!
To a point. But not if you are doing a check ride for BA⌠
Flying is easy. Itâs the rest of it that is difficultâŚ
Class2ldn:
Well as a current train driver it does amuse me as to some of the replies on here. In regards to the underground only two lines are automated, thats the central and Victoria. All other lines are completely driven so its all on the driver.
Now I drive for a company that operates across london so im overground not underground and to be honest the underground boys and gals do get a bit of a ribbing from the overground because they dont drive the speeds we do. Believe me when trying to stop a train at 100 mph in the â â â â â â â down rain doesnât work and you end up doing a six mile skid then feel free to slag us train drivers off.
Leaves on the line is a serious problem and when your faced with a red signal and you canât stop because the wheels have completely locked its quite a frightening prospect. In regards to just pushing and pulling the levers etc as was mentioned before we have alot to learn. The signallers control the signals and if they give us a wrong route we have to know and stop or try and stop before it happens.
We have a rule book we have to learn which is the equivalent size of a bible basically lol. Every two years we are tested on it and it equates to roughly 300/350 questions with an 80% pass mark. We also have to learn about the trains inside out, if something fails then its down to us to fix it or try. Obviously there are some things that are way above us in regards to fixing.
The safety side is strict and everything is monitored by a black box. Certain faults come with certain rules laid out in the rule book. Break these and someone get hurts and its in the docks and a cell. Im not trying to big our job up as many people have no true understanding of what we do. Yes the money is good but we can drive for periods of upto six hours without a break and only have to have a 30 min break. Personally it does get boring but its like any job, some good days some bad. At my company the max working day is 10hours so yes in that respect its alot less then road driving jobs but it can be monotonous.
Waiting for the backlash now lol.
No backlash required. Driving a truck is a piece of â â â â in comparison. Yes itâs longer hours, but the more menial the job, the longer you tend to have to work for a decent wage.
If lorry drivers had to do half the above 90% would be out of a job in no time!! Lorry drivers donât do âtrainingâ. It upsets them!! Granted the dCPC is hardly training but even if it were much better than it is, I canât see drivers embracing it.
Truckulent:
Class2ldn:
No backlash required. Driving a truck is a piece of â â â â in comparison. Yes itâs longer hours, but the more menial the job, the longer you tend to have to work for a decent wage.
Thatâs why Iâve only worked 9.25 hours everyday this week then
Class2ldn:
Yeah the aws gives us about 1.6 seconds to acknowledge it or an emergency brake application applies. We also have a foot pedal called a drivers safety device. If no activity is acknowledged for 1 minute then this starts an audible alarm called the drivers vigilance device so we have to raise our foot and put it back down within about 6/7 seconds or the brakes come on again. Lots of safety devices lol
One thing you havenât mentioned is what happens when you do make a mistake, i.e. PSD (Passed Signal at Danger) or the like. My knowledge of the subject is both limited and somewhat rusty (I worked as a volunteer on the Great Central and North York Moors many years ago but never got beyond passed cleaner) but my best mate is a former Nine Elms passed fireman from steam days who still drives on preserved lines, which have to comply to pretty much the same rules. Is it still an automatic suspension followed by a formal enquiry?
Iâd be grateful if you could enlighten us on this as would give some food for thought, since I am sure the penalties for such are way beyond those for going over a daily driving limit by a couple of seconds.
DAF95XF:
Truckulent:
Class2ldn:
No backlash required. Driving a truck is a piece of â â â â in comparison. Yes itâs longer hours, but the more menial the job, the longer you tend to have to work for a decent wage.Thatâs why Iâve only worked 9.25 hours everyday this week then
Yeh, but do a quick poll on here and most will have done a hell of a lot more than thatâŚIâve done less than you but it doesnât mean everyone does and it doesnât alter the point I was making. 
Sidevalve:
Class2ldn:
Yeah the aws gives us about 1.6 seconds to acknowledge it or an emergency brake application applies. We also have a foot pedal called a drivers safety device. If no activity is acknowledged for 1 minute then this starts an audible alarm called the drivers vigilance device so we have to raise our foot and put it back down within about 6/7 seconds or the brakes come on again. Lots of safety devices lolOne thing you havenât mentioned is what happens when you do make a mistake, i.e. PSD (Passed Signal at Danger) or the like. My knowledge of the subject is both limited and somewhat rusty (I worked as a volunteer on the Great Central and North York Moors many years ago but never got beyond passed cleaner) but my best mate is a former Nine Elms passed fireman from steam days who still drives on preserved lines, which have to comply to pretty much the same rules. Is it still an automatic suspension followed by a formal enquiry?
Iâd be grateful if you could enlighten us on this as would give some food for thought, since I am sure the penalties for such are way beyond those for going over a daily driving limit by a couple of seconds.
Ok well a spad is split into 4 differemt categories.
Cat a, b, c, d
Cat a is the serious one as its the one given to a driver if its their fault basically. Many reasons why people have them and not really relevant here.
Anyway what will happen is in most cases the tpws will trip giving you a brake application if the driver hasnât realised and already whacked it into emergency. The signaller will have to be immediately informed and you follow their instructions. The train will be taken out of service immediately no exception and you will be pulled off track for an interview and med screen. Now you wont get the sack for a spad . People mess up and thats life. What will happen is youâll get put on an action plan normally 6/12 months and maybe some retraining if necessary.
What you will get a p45 for is trying to hide it. If your honest then you will keep your job as long its not a regular thing.
The big thing at the moment is stopping short of the platform and wrong side door releases. Obviously the danger to passengers on both of these is obvious. If you stop short and release the doors youâll be surprised how many people dont actually check the platform is there.
Opening the doors on the wrong side speaks for itself.
In regards to route learning there are some freight and indeed passenger drivers that sign from one end of the country to the other.
I currently drive from brighton to bedford so have to know every junction speed signal , where you can and cant go etc.
I wish we could just follow the rails and know it was correct but unfortunately it wont happen while people are still controlling the routes and thats something that in reality will always be needed so the importance of knowing a route is not to be overlooked.