X 2mtd:
Absolute tosh POA or break does not count as working time therefore BOTH count as reduction on the 48 hour week for working time regulations.
Only wrong if your hourly paid as you just did yourself out of 50 minutes pay.
I did do myself out of 50 mins pay,but I’d of thought he’d want you on break for 3 hrs,expect it.
Kneal:
I got an infringement for it. I was told anything 3hrs or over will be classed as you taking a split rest. I would still need to take a 45. Fair enough if I’m wrong, just thought I’d ask the question.
Things like the make me hod my head in dispair. The standard of tacho analysts can be so bad and it floats down the chain giving dodgy information to drivers. Ive had my run ins with one who spouted so much crap I couldn’t believe it. When I questioned his ability to do the job he threatened me with legal action for slander!
Just to set the record straight regarding break from driving and split daily rest.
Prior to 11/04/2007 the EU drivers hours rules were contained in Council Regulation (EEC) 3820/85. This gave an option for a driver to take his daily rest period split into no more than three periods. The shortest time allowed was one hour and one period had to be at least eight hours, the total daily rest had to be 12 hours. Thus you had splits like; 1+3+8, 4+8 or 2+2+8. A Euro Court ruling said that the eight hour period had to be the last rest. The Regulation was specific in that the shorter rest periods did not count as a ‘break’ when considering the 4:30 continuous driving limit.
When (EC)561/2006 replaced the earlier legislation the requirements for split daily rest were simplified; maximum two periods, the first had to be at least 3 hours and the second at least 9 hours. The first period could also count as a break from driving and hence would ‘reset’ the 4:30 continuous driving period.
Probably a good idea if the transport department lecturing the OP went and read the rules before administering any further lectures.
muckles:
Lusk:
As regards your comments about not being able to change the mode over when you have handed your keys in, I do not believe this is correct. You should be able to change the mode over without the ignition on but certain functions like obtaining a print out without the ignition on will not be possible.It is correct if you’re sat in a drivers waiting room and your cab is locked.
Good point 
The worst thing about a 3 hr continuous break, is that if you do a 15hr day, with a 3hr break you can still do another 3 15hr days. I always take a break first then it goes onto POA.
NewLad:
The worst thing about a 3 hr continuous break, is that if you do a 15hr day, with a 3hr break you can still do another 3 15hr days. I always take a break first then it goes onto POA.
I don’t think it’s a bad thing tbh. I bet a few lads who run across the water like Luke use it often. Then again I could be wrong 
switchlogic:
Kneal:
I got an infringement for it. I was told anything 3hrs or over will be classed as you taking a split rest. I would still need to take a 45. Fair enough if I’m wrong, just thought I’d ask the question.Things like the make me hod my head in dispair. The standard of tacho analysts can be so bad and it floats down the chain giving dodgy information to drivers. Ive had my run ins with one who spouted so much crap I couldn’t believe it. When I questioned his ability to do the job he threatened me with legal action for slander!
Totally agree with this. Our independent tacho analysist told us the old vosa and the bluetooth chestnut last week. I just nodded and agreed and said I’d heard about it already
geebee45:
Just to set the record straight regarding break from driving and split daily rest.Prior to 11/04/2007 the EU drivers hours rules were contained in Council Regulation (EEC) 3820/85. This gave an option for a driver to take his daily rest period split into no more than three periods. The shortest time allowed was one hour and one period had to be at least eight hours, the total daily rest had to be 12 hours. Thus you had splits like; 1+3+8, 4+8 or 2+2+8. A Euro Court ruling said that the eight hour period had to be the last rest. The Regulation was specific in that the shorter rest periods did not count as a ‘break’ when considering the 4:30 continuous driving limit.
When (EC)561/2006 replaced the earlier legislation the requirements for split daily rest were simplified; maximum two periods, the first had to be at least 3 hours and the second at least 9 hours. The first period could also count as a break from driving and hence would ‘reset’ the 4:30 continuous driving period.
Probably a good idea if the transport department lecturing the OP went and read the rules before administering any further lectures.
It’s actually the depot manager who’s stating that only poa counts towards reducing your WTD hours,I’m not sure even if he did read the rules he would accept them,what he says is gospel.
I’m assuming your vosa 
,now he is telling me that they have volunteered to allow you to view my WTD hours through gts( iso trac) ,is that true
If it is true( I’m very dubious it is ) what action ( fines etc) would you take against me when I get to the end of my 17 week reference period and I’m over my 48 hr WTD average hours thankyou
If I have to hand keys in while loading/tipping by warehouse staff and then have access to my cab denied I’ll lock the vehicle, having removed my tacho card, then do a manual entry before moving off the bay once the keys have been returned.
That way I can make an accurate record of how my time is accounted for. Time on other work dealing with keys/goods in/out staff, break/poa or other work after keys & paperwork returned, load checked for restraint, doors sealed etc.
switchlogic:
Kneal:
I got an infringement for it. I was told anything 3hrs or over will be classed as you taking a split rest. I would still need to take a 45. Fair enough if I’m wrong, just thought I’d ask the question.Things like the make me hod my head in dispair. The standard of tacho analysts can be so bad and it floats down the chain giving dodgy information to drivers. Ive had my run ins with one who spouted so much crap I couldn’t believe it. When I questioned his ability to do the job he threatened me with legal action for slander!
You should have called his bluff, 
Wiretwister:
If I have to hand keys in while loading/tipping by warehouse staff and then have access to my cab denied I’ll lock the vehicle, having removed my tacho card, then do a manual entry before moving off the bay once the keys have been returned.
That way I can make an accurate record of how my time is accounted for. Time on other work dealing with keys/goods in/out staff, break/poa or other work after keys & paperwork returned, load checked for restraint, doors sealed etc.
That is actually a very simple but good idea…thanks.
dozy said;
I’m assuming your vosa
If it is true( I’m very dubious it is ) what action ( fines etc) would you take against me when I get to the end of my 17 week reference period and I’m over my 48 hr WTD average hours
In answer to your questions; I was until November 2011.
Not quite sure how VOSA are going to see your working time records via IsoTrac, but just about anything is possible. How a company keeps their RT(WT)R records is up to them, there is no required method specified in the legislation. It could be a software programme designed to analyse both scanned analogue charts and digital tacho data and report any offences / infringements. It could be something as simple as written records filled in by the driver either during or at the end of the day. Puzzled by the term ‘volunteered.’ Of course a company can always freely give information to VOSA / the Police etc. However, in my experience it is usually a result of a ‘request’ from the enforcement agency. It’s also my experience that many operators use the threat of VOSA action when they haven’t got the nerve just to ask drivers to do something a particular way. This usually goes hand in hand with somebody not understanding legislation having a ‘good idea’ and rather than talk it through with the workforce they simply issue a command that must be obeyed without question. Their second course of action is to threaten intervention from the enforcement authorities, when in truth those bodies will have far better things to do. See stories about fully winding trailer landing legs up, carrying 3 print rolls for digital tacho vehicles or running 30 seconds over the 4:30 driving time (other waiting room myths are also available).
Any breaches of the limits laid down by the RT(WT)R can lead to a maximum fine in Magistrates Court of up to £5 000. However, this is not directed solely at the driver. The employer must take responsibility for managing hours to ensure employees do not breach the regulations. Don’t forget that the employer is obliged to give copies of records should they request them. Currently there is no provision for fixed penalties to be issued at the roadside for breaches of RT(WT)R, unlike offences committed against EU or GB Domestic hours. However, there is the possibility of a Prohibition being issued, although I’m not aware of one ever having been done.
geebee45:
dozy said;I’m assuming your vosa
If it is true( I’m very dubious it is ) what action ( fines etc) would you take against me when I get to the end of my 17 week reference period and I’m over my 48 hr WTD average hoursIn answer to your questions; I was until November 2011.
Not quite sure how VOSA are going to see your working time records via IsoTrac, but just about anything is possible. How a company keeps their RT(WT)R records is up to them, there is no required method specified in the legislation. It could be a software programme designed to analyse both scanned analogue charts and digital tacho data and report any offences / infringements. It could be something as simple as written records filled in by the driver either during or at the end of the day. Puzzled by the term ‘volunteered.’ Of course a company can always freely give information to VOSA / the Police etc. However, in my experience it is usually a result of a ‘request’ from the enforcement agency. It’s also my experience that many operators use the threat of VOSA action when they haven’t got the nerve just to ask drivers to do something a particular way. This usually goes hand in hand with somebody not understanding legislation having a ‘good idea’ and rather than talk it through with the workforce they simply issue a command that must be obeyed without question. Their second course of action is to threaten intervention from the enforcement authorities, when in truth those bodies will have far better things to do. See stories about fully winding trailer landing legs up, carrying 3 print rolls for digital tacho vehicles or running 30 seconds over the 4:30 driving time (other waiting room myths are also available).
Any breaches of the limits laid down by the RT(WT)R can lead to a maximum fine in Magistrates Court of up to £5 000. However, this is not directed solely at the driver. The employer must take responsibility for managing hours to ensure employees do not breach the regulations. Don’t forget that the employer is obliged to give copies of records should they request them. Currently there is no provision for fixed penalties to be issued at the roadside for breaches of RT(WT)R, unlike offences committed against EU or GB Domestic hours. However, there is the possibility of a Prohibition being issued, although I’m not aware of one ever having been done.
Thanks gee bee,some interesting points there,the main one is he should manage our hours,I guess that means types of work ,hours etc ,not you will book x amount of poa whatever. 
I’m going to sit back and let it run it’s course now,I’m not done anything wrong so don’t feel I’ve anything to worry about ,thanks again geebee
Lusk:
I think it all delepnds on how the driver wants to play it but fair play to your company for having money to burn!!If this was a regular run that you were doing, I would be instructing all drivers to ensure they take a break when at the RDC and having a 45 min on the way back is just time wasting.
As regards your comments about not being able to change the mode over when you have handed your keys in, I do not believe this is correct. You should be able to change the mode over without the ignition on but certain functions like obtaining a print out without the ignition on will not be possible.
This information is incorrect!
Mucker1:
Dozy you done right. You also satisfied the 30 min break for WTD for 6 hrs work. If u done it there way you would only of had 15 mins to get yourself on rest before you breached the WTD… in my opinion.
Back to school mate.
1st, the 6hrs is WORKING time not duty time, so if he was on POA for 3hrs, then he’d have still had 3hrs 15mins before he required his 15 minutes break for the 6hr rule 
muckles:
blueroom1:
maybe its not such a bad thing this DCPC, after all lots of drivers don’t even know the basic drivers regs, opinions don’t matter when it comes to getting your wheels tapped by that fussy ■■■88ker in the big Hi ViZ !!If you read the thread, it seems the driver knew, but the transport department didn’t,
Also, how many drivers have completed their dCPC and STILL haven’t got a clue, either because they didn’t pay attention or were taught by a muppet who didn’t have a clue?
weeto:
Lusk:
I think it all delepnds on how the driver wants to play it but fair play to your company for having money to burn!!If this was a regular run that you were doing, I would be instructing all drivers to ensure they take a break when at the RDC and having a 45 min on the way back is just time wasting.
As regards your comments about not being able to change the mode over when you have handed your keys in, I do not believe this is correct. You should be able to change the mode over without the ignition on but certain functions like obtaining a print out without the ignition on will not be possible.
This information is incorrect!
On some vehicles it’s correct, on some it’s incorrect.
waynedl:
weeto:
Lusk:
I think it all delepnds on how the driver wants to play it but fair play to your company for having money to burn!!If this was a regular run that you were doing, I would be instructing all drivers to ensure they take a break when at the RDC and having a 45 min on the way back is just time wasting.
As regards your comments about not being able to change the mode over when you have handed your keys in, I do not believe this is correct. You should be able to change the mode over without the ignition on but certain functions like obtaining a print out without the ignition on will not be possible.
This information is incorrect!
On some vehicles it’s correct, on some it’s incorrect.
So a pointless statement to make!
weeto:
waynedl:
weeto:
Lusk:
I think it all delepnds on how the driver wants to play it but fair play to your company for having money to burn!!If this was a regular run that you were doing, I would be instructing all drivers to ensure they take a break when at the RDC and having a 45 min on the way back is just time wasting.
As regards your comments about not being able to change the mode over when you have handed your keys in, I do not believe this is correct. You should be able to change the mode over without the ignition on but certain functions like obtaining a print out without the ignition on will not be possible.
This information is incorrect!
On some vehicles it’s correct, on some it’s incorrect.
So a pointless statement to make!
Either way …
waynedl:
weeto:
Lusk:
I think it all delepnds on how the driver wants to play it but fair play to your company for having money to burn!!If this was a regular run that you were doing, I would be instructing all drivers to ensure they take a break when at the RDC and having a 45 min on the way back is just time wasting.
As regards your comments about not being able to change the mode over when you have handed your keys in, I do not believe this is correct. You should be able to change the mode over without the ignition on but certain functions like obtaining a print out without the ignition on will not be possible.
This information is incorrect!
On some vehicles it’s correct, on some it’s incorrect.
Could you elaborate on this more please as I mainly drive the older type vehicle, I’ve not seen this before?
