Well you should all think yourselves lucky 
ā¦
At the end of my shift i have to fill up the diesel tankā¦
Then i have to go and top up the adBlue tankā¦
Then i have to go and fill up the ā ā ā ā SEED OIL tankā¦
And there all in different locations 
OLT:
simple cost savings with adblueā¦dont put it in
I just spent an āinterestingā 8 days working for an Irish outfit (not anymore, but thats another story!) and all their DAF motors registered before 2008 just put water in the AdBlue tank - it certainly didnt seem to affect the performance of the one I drove.
Hombre:
I just spent an āinterestingā 8 days working for an Irish outfit (not anymore, but thats another story!) and all their DAF motors registered before 2008 just put water in the AdBlue tank - it certainly didnt seem to affect the performance of the one I drove.
Interesting. I couldnāt possibly condone this kind of action, but will let my gaffer know if he ever decides to have a labotomy & buy an SCR-equipped motor.
ok, to the above. 
They put water in the tank to stop the piston motor burning out. Imagine your window washers trying to spray but the reservoir is empty 
eventually the pump will go. This is because pre november 2007 build trucks do not have a nox sensor so if you run them without adblue they dont know.
To macplaxton, an egr engine cleans the emissions by recerculating the smoke. This is an advanced version of euro 3 2 and 1,where the engine did the cleaning. If the engine does more work it uses more diesel so an egr engine is harder on fuel. An ad blue engine runs dirty letting the same engine concentrate on power and economy then letting the ad blue take care of the emissions.
egr for convenience and scr for economy/fact. Merc for example are very open about the fact that they could get there v6 and v8 engines to operate as egr engines but went the adblue route instead as this gives better fuel economy. Nuff said.
ellies dad:
To macplaxton, an egr engine cleans the emissions by recerculating the smoke. This is an advanced version of euro 3 2 and 1,where the engine did the cleaning. If the engine does more work it uses more diesel so an egr engine is harder on fuel. An ad blue engine runs dirty letting the same engine concentrate on power and economy then letting the ad blue take care of the emissions.
Thanks, thatās clear. The actual stuff doesnāt āmakeā power as such, itās the filthy engine that does it. 
ellies dad:
egr for convenience and scr for economy/fact.
I agree with you, but if you factor in the additional time it takes for a depotās drivers to fill up with AdBlue and the manoeuvring that goes with it, all clocking up another extra quarter of an hour at least. The inconvenience of ā ā ā ā ā ā ā ā ā ā AdBlue storage tanks, the hassle of reordering the stuff, monitoring it, additional maintenance costs etc.
This might all sound pedantic, but as anyone with a CPC will tell you, profit margins within our industry are very tight and when you add up all the variable running costs, the much trumpeted 1mpg increase with SCR amounts to very little.
Or to put it another wayā¦
MAN ā ADD NOTHING!
Dazza:
ellies dad:
egr for convenience and scr for economy/fact.I agree with you, but if you factor in the additional time it takes for a depotās drivers to fill up with AdBlue and the manoeuvring that goes with it, all clocking up another extra quarter of an hour at least. The inconvenience of ā ā ā ā ā ā ā ā ā ā AdBlue storage tanks, the hassle of reordering the stuff, monitoring it, additional maintenance costs etc.
This might all sound pedantic, but as anyone with a CPC will tell you, profit margins within our industry are very tight and when you add up all the variable running costs, the much trumpeted 1mpg increase with SCR amounts to very little.
Or to put it another wayā¦
MAN ā ADD NOTHING!
for euro 5 you add ad blue. man havent got an egr euro 5 engine yet for all their bragging.
Hombre:
I just spent an āinterestingā 8 days working for an Irish outfit (not anymore, but thats another story!) and all their DAF motors registered before 2008 just put water in the AdBlue tank - it certainly didnt seem to affect the performance of the one I drove.
So, water down your pee bottle and put that in. 
DAFMAD:
Hombre:
I just spent an āinterestingā 8 days working for an Irish outfit (not anymore, but thats another story!) and all their DAF motors registered before 2008 just put water in the AdBlue tank - it certainly didnt seem to affect the performance of the one I drove.So, water down your pee bottle and put that in.
i see you are now accepting offers on an fh aswell. when did you break.
ellies dad:
An ad blue engine runs dirty letting the same engine concentrate on power and economy then letting the ad blue take care of the emissions.
And therby blows your claim that adblue makes engines run more efficient !!
Adblue may well make a truck comply with lower emmisions at the exhaust pipe (what the EU demand), but its manufacture, transportation, and storage use more emmisions than it saves (in the real world). But lets not look at the bigger picture it all gets confusing. Meanwhile Gordon Brown is raising taxes on oil to discourage its use as its not a ecologically friendly fuel and its not sustainable, and then he has just gone to Scotland to ask oil producers to produce more for us to keep the cost down!!
I give up really.
Mike-C:
ellies dad:
An ad blue engine runs dirty letting the same engine concentrate on power and economy then letting the ad blue take care of the emissions.And therby blows your claim that adblue makes engines run more efficient !!
Adblue may well make a truck comply with lower emmisions at the exhaust pipe (what the EU demand), but its manufacture, transportation, and storage use more emmisions than it saves (in the real world). But lets not look at the bigger picture it all gets confusing. Meanwhile Gordon Brown is raising taxes on oil to discourage its use as its not a ecologically friendly fuel and its not sustainable, and then he has just gone to Scotland to ask oil producers to produce more for us to keep the cost down!!
I give up really.
come on mike, the big picture surely the fact that every new truck on the road is alot cleaner than pre 2007 outweighs the enviromental cost of producing the chemical/water/acid/urine 
(depending on who you ask)
ellies dad:
Mike-C:
ellies dad:
An ad blue engine runs dirty letting the same engine concentrate on power and economy then letting the ad blue take care of the emissions.And therby blows your claim that adblue makes engines run more efficient !!
Adblue may well make a truck comply with lower emmisions at the exhaust pipe (what the EU demand), but its manufacture, transportation, and storage use more emmisions than it saves (in the real world). But lets not look at the bigger picture it all gets confusing. Meanwhile Gordon Brown is raising taxes on oil to discourage its use as its not a ecologically friendly fuel and its not sustainable, and then he has just gone to Scotland to ask oil producers to produce more for us to keep the cost down!!
I give up really.come on mike, the big picture
Yeah sure, its the equivalent of telling your missis youāve gave up the booze and are going to live a healthier lifestyle and then started smoking dope!!
Whatever happened to that bloke who spent 3 months on here trying to flog a fuel saving device?
I cant be arsed to search for the post but not seen him in this years rich list either
I know he had a lot of willing helpers waiting for his magic box of tricks.
Look, no magnets!
ellies dad:
for euro 5 you add ad blue. man havent got an egr euro 5 engine yet for all their bragging.
They didnāt have a Euro 4 engine until the last minute, and the launch of that silenced the SCR brigade for a while.
The fact is that even if MAN design & build a Euro 5 engine, then it wonāt satisfy the exponents of SCR. Theyāll just say that to comply with Euro 6 you need ad blue and they havenāt got an EGR Euro 6 engine yetā¦etc etc
EGR is a revolutionary design which makes driving a Euro4 truck look & feel like a Euro3 truck. The same cannot be said for SCR-engined trucks, or are you one of these drivers who loves spinning the job out at the pump(s) at the end of a shift?
Dazza:
ellies dad:
for euro 5 you add ad blue. man havent got an egr euro 5 engine yet for all their bragging.They didnāt have a Euro 4 engine until the last minute, and the launch of that silenced the SCR brigade for a while.
The fact is that even if MAN design & build a Euro 5 engine, then it wonāt satisfy the exponents of SCR. Theyāll just say that to comply with Euro 6 you need ad blue and they havenāt got an EGR Euro 6 engine yetā¦etc etc
EGR is a revolutionary design which makes driving a Euro4 truck look & feel like a Euro3 truck. The same cannot be said for SCR-engined trucks, or are you one of these drivers who loves spinning the job out at the pump(s) at the end of a shift?
my original point still stands, they havent got a euro 5 egr
ellies dad:
my original point still stands, they havent got a euro 5 egr
My original point also still stands: MAN havenāt got a Euro 5 engine YET!
This debate is starting to resemble the VHS/Betamax debate of the Eighties.
There is one hell of a lot of mis-information here, its quite staggering. I see MMTM is in full force as ever. Amazes me how some people claim to be experts, without the first clue.
Its interesting that even some truck drivers donāt have a basic understanding of how an engine, even in basic principles work. A guy a page or so back was talking talking about putting 90% petrol in the tank instead of diesel because petrol is cheaper.
It seems bizarre to have to maybe explain the inherent differences between a diesel and petrol engine, but there you go. The only control you have over a compression ignition engine is at what point to inject the fuel, there is no control over ignition itself. Maybe thats what a certain poster meant, but he wasnāt exactly clear on the fact.
It may interest some people to know that EGR actually reduces combustion temperature. The exhaust gas recirculation increases the specific heat capacity of the combustion mix, thus lowering the combustion temperature. The eco benefits actually stem from this fact, in that nitrous oxide is produced more efficiently at higher temperatures, thus by reducing the heat, you reduce the production of NOx.
Before exhaust gas is put back into the combustion chamber it passes through a heat exhanger to reduce the temperature thus allowing a greater amount of recirculated gas to be forced in. Again exhaust gas has a higher specific heat capacity than air, so again it serves tor reduce combustion temperature. There are compromises though, EGR will reduce the amount of fuel burned in the power stroke, thus energy and therefore power is lost. EGR also produces more particulate matter in the exhaust, which means more stuff to clog up the other emission reducing systems.
To more onto SCR for a secondā¦
To those who donāt seem to know, it has nothing to do with the combustion process, it isnāt injecting āintoā the engine, it comes after the fact, the only connection it has to engine operation is a map that helps the system decide how much to use in relation to engine operation/performance.
I have always been dubious towards the benefits of adblue, it still has problems inherent in its design, operating conditions affect its efficiency a great deal, and there is always the problem of un-reacted ammonia being released into the atmosphere.
To those who seem to think its corrosive, reading up reveals that it is slightly alkaline with a PH of 9. So and i quote ā¦
so should not be kept in contact with aluminium, brass, mild steel. Stainless Steel and Plastic tanks and fittings are recommended. Prolonged skin contact may cause irritation.
To put that into perspective, you can buy drinking water that is between PH9 and PH10, and is considered beneficial for your health. So i would say manufacturers are airing on the side of caution with those comments.
Mike C saidā¦
but its manufacture, transportation, and storage use more emmisions than it saves (in the real world)
This is the crux of the matter, very much like tescoās transporting ālocalā produce 3000 miles before it gets to your plate.
On top of that what we do in the UK, and even the EU for that matter, is but a drop in the ocean. The main polluters of the world, China, India, the Americaās etc are the ones who need to make significant changes.
As many have pointed out lately, and a view im subscribing too, is that this planet was here before we were, and it will be here after we destroy ourselves, its arrogant to think whatever we do will have that much of an impact on things. We arenāt having as great an impact as the governments would like us to think, its simply a good opportunity for them to spin more money out of our guilt through green taxes. Enabling them to secure their gold standard pensions, and increase their pay by 60% as was talked about recently
Itās a shame we have to deal with all this emmisions related crap, it destroys the character of decent engines and overcomplicates matters, emissions and efficiency do not run hand in hand, the Euro emissions system is simply another stumbling block for haulage operators.