There's dangerous goods then there's

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
21

Themoocher:

dieseldave:

commonrail:
Regularly carried full loads of fireworks.

Same here mate, but I’d just add that a boss might need to be careful when allocating drivers for carrying fireworks.

Lots of fireworks are 1.4S, which can be carried in any quantity, even by a non-ADR trained driver.

However, NOT ALL fireworks are 1.4S.

The bigger fireworks can be 1.1G, 1.2G, 1.3G or 1.4G all of which have various ‘freeby’ limits, above which an ADR trained driver is required.

3

2

1

0

Care is needed because the ‘freeby’ limits are different depending on whether the journey is national or international.

Strange to say, but the ‘freeby’ limits for a UK journey are far more generous than for an international journey. :open_mouth:

Yeah that will change if it’s mixed loads aswell with the compatibility groups and quantity of the explosives.
Due to the amount of units you can mix per load with certain groups.

Turns into a pain in the hoop.

Agreed!! :smiley:

We’re getting back to the old piecemeal ways of doing things…
a bit in ADR, another bit in CDG, and a different bit in ADTP. :frowning:

It keeps us sharp, and discourages the googlers, so I’m all for it. :laughing: :laughing: :smiley:

22

weeto:
Worst has to be, was some spontaniously combustible substance in 3 flasks on a 20 ft flat between Hull docks and ICI Wilton, were they would swap the full flasks for 3 "empty ones.
Stuff was that volatile, it wasn’t allowed to sit on the dock, so was straight off the boat onto the trailer, and could only take it back to the dock just before the boat was due to sail, can’t remember what it was called, just knew it was bloody scarey stuff.

It’s a shame you can’t remember what it was, cos it sounds quite “interesting” in that I’ve never heard of a proper rule that says it can’t stay at a place for X amount of time.

23

I was on the bang for 10 years, much safer than petro chemicals or acids. the only things to worry about are fire or self arming devices like clusters, oh or a driver that was in a hurry to get to ventimiglia and had all the brakes glowing with a full load as we stopped at the French/Italian border peage. (his LGV instructor said the brakes are so efficient these days no need to use gears or exhaust brakes). the real annoyance was it was with the new trailer. luckily life goes on.

24

ABB:

■■■■■■■:

3300John:
Hiya i used to pick up small flasks of olium from Jamaca road london years ago NOT nice stuff

Nasty stuff, that olive oil. I think you mean oleum, bud. :smiley:

Horrible stuff oleum - as discussed here previously:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=35856&start=90

Rgds.

ABB.

Thats mad. Stuff of horror films!

25

dieseldave:

commonrail:
Regularly carried full loads of fireworks.

Same here mate, but I’d just add that a boss might need to be careful when allocating drivers for carrying fireworks.

Lots of fireworks are 1.4S, which can be carried in any quantity, even by a non-ADR trained driver.

However, NOT ALL fireworks are 1.4S.

The bigger fireworks can be 1.1G, 1.2G, 1.3G or 1.4G all of which have various ‘freeby’ limits, above which an ADR trained driver is required.

i had the class 1 part of my adr ticket.

i used to collect the fireworks from the old air force base at upper heyford…where they were stored in the old ammo dump
shown here.

images.jpg

26

dieseldave:

Themoocher:

dieseldave:

commonrail:
Regularly carried full loads of fireworks.

Same here mate, but I’d just add that a boss might need to be careful when allocating drivers for carrying fireworks.

Lots of fireworks are 1.4S, which can be carried in any quantity, even by a non-ADR trained driver.

However, NOT ALL fireworks are 1.4S.

The bigger fireworks can be 1.1G, 1.2G, 1.3G or 1.4G all of which have various ‘freeby’ limits, above which an ADR trained driver is required.

3

2

1

0

Care is needed because the ‘freeby’ limits are different depending on whether the journey is national or international.

Strange to say, but the ‘freeby’ limits for a UK journey are far more generous than for an international journey. :open_mouth:

Yeah that will change if it’s mixed loads aswell with the compatibility groups and quantity of the explosives.
Due to the amount of units you can mix per load with certain groups.

Turns into a pain in the hoop.

Agreed!! :smiley:

We’re getting back to the old piecemeal ways of doing things…
a bit in ADR, another bit in CDG, and a different bit in ADTP. :frowning:

It keeps us sharp, and discourages the googlers, so I’m all for it. :laughing: :laughing: :smiley:

I don’t know what CDG and ADTP is if I’m honest mate.
I done the DG advisor for Surface and air ( ADR IMDG IATA ).
Then done a explosives advisor and storage requirements for explosives.

Sounds nice and fancy qualifications but has a lot of responsibility and turns into a bit of a nightmare.
If I never seen another DG note in my life I would be happy.

27

Themoocher:
I don’t know what CDG and ADTP is if I’m honest mate.
I done the DG advisor for Surface and air ( ADR IMDG IATA ).
Then done a explosives advisor and storage requirements for explosives.

Sounds nice and fancy qualifications but has a lot of responsibility and turns into a bit of a nightmare.
If I never seen another DG note in my life I would be happy.

I’m always happy to help. :smiley:

As you know, ADR is valid for international movements of dangerous goods by road.

CDG is a set of Regs which modifies some of ADR and is valid for when UK domestic journey requirements differ from ADR.
ADTP is a further modifying and clarification by providing derogations and allowing time to get companies compliant.

I teach and advise on transport rather than storage, but the UK storage Regs for UN Class 1 have just had a massive revision.
A lot of the older Regs have recently been revoked, amended and re-fettled into an overarching set of Regs called The Explosives Regulations 2014, most of which came into force on 01/10/2014, whilst the rest of it comes into force on 05/04/2015.

Fortunately, there are good new ACOPs that are far easier to understand. :smiley:

28

All I know is that I’ve rejected loads because the NEC rating was over 500.

29

dieseldave:

Themoocher:
I don’t know what CDG and ADTP is if I’m honest mate.
I done the DG advisor for Surface and air ( ADR IMDG IATA ).
Then done a explosives advisor and storage requirements for explosives.

Sounds nice and fancy qualifications but has a lot of responsibility and turns into a bit of a nightmare.
If I never seen another DG note in my life I would be happy.

I’m always happy to help. :smiley:

As you know, ADR is valid for international movements of dangerous goods by road.

CDG is a set of Regs which modifies some of ADR and is valid for when UK domestic journey requirements differ from ADR.
ADTP is a further modifying and clarification by providing derogations and allowing time to get companies compliant.

I teach and advise on transport rather than storage, but the UK storage Regs for UN Class 1 have just had a massive revision.
A lot of the older Regs have recently been revoked, amended and re-fettled into an overarching set of Regs called The Explosives Regulations 2014, most of which came into force on 01/10/2014, whilst the rest of it comes into force on 05/04/2015.

Fortunately, there are good new ACOPs that are far easier to understand. :smiley:

I see.
I done all mine in the military a couple of year ago.
The first course I done was the normal DG with the manuals for the relevant surface or air.
The explosives I found a pain. But was made easier as the manuals were on a laptop. So you used the search instead of flipping through manuals.
But we also use military regs in the JSP for DG aswell.

The storage is quite straight forward.
Only put the right amounts of groups in each bunker.

DG is ok if your doing it all the time.
I hadn’t done it for a while and got told to sort out the DG ready for a deployment.
Just a epic :laughing:

30

Radar19:
All I know is that I’ve rejected loads because the NEC rating was over 500.

Hi Radar19,

The 500kg NEQ (UK only) relates to some stuff though, cos for others, the UK only NEQ cut-off can be either 0kg NEQ or 50kg NEQ.

Please don’t worry too much about that unless you’re the owner of the vehicle, cos the responsibility belongs very firmly with the carrier, NOT the driver.

31

dieseldave:

Radar19:
All I know is that I’ve rejected loads because the NEC rating was over 500.

Hi Radar19,

The 500kg NEQ (UK only) relates to some stuff though, cos for others, the UK only NEQ cut-off can be either 0kg NEQ or 50kg NEQ.

Please don’t worry too much about that unless you’re the owner of the vehicle, cos the responsibility belongs very firmly with the carrier, NOT the driver.

It was fireworks that I was carrying. I had one load that was over 700 NEQ, they weren’t very pleased when I told them I was taking it.

32

Themoocher:

dieseldave:

Themoocher:
I don’t know what CDG and ADTP is if I’m honest mate.
I done the DG advisor for Surface and air ( ADR IMDG IATA ).
Then done a explosives advisor and storage requirements for explosives.

Sounds nice and fancy qualifications but has a lot of responsibility and turns into a bit of a nightmare.
If I never seen another DG note in my life I would be happy.

I’m always happy to help. :smiley:

As you know, ADR is valid for international movements of dangerous goods by road.

CDG is a set of Regs which modifies some of ADR and is valid for when UK domestic journey requirements differ from ADR.
ADTP is a further modifying and clarification by providing derogations and allowing time to get companies compliant.

I teach and advise on transport rather than storage, but the UK storage Regs for UN Class 1 have just had a massive revision.
A lot of the older Regs have recently been revoked, amended and re-fettled into an overarching set of Regs called The Explosives Regulations 2014, most of which came into force on 01/10/2014, whilst the rest of it comes into force on 05/04/2015.

Fortunately, there are good new ACOPs that are far easier to understand. :smiley:

I see.
I done all mine in the military a couple of year ago.
The first course I done was the normal DG with the manuals for the relevant surface or air.
The explosives I found a pain. But was made easier as the manuals were on a laptop. So you used the search instead of flipping through manuals.
But we also use military regs in the JSP for DG aswell.

The storage is quite straight forward.
Only put the right amounts of groups in each bunker.

DG is ok if your doing it all the time.
I hadn’t done it for a while and got told to sort out the DG ready for a deployment.
Just a epic :laughing:

Did you teach IATA regs too Themoocher? Was that in the mil?

33

Radar19:

dieseldave:

Radar19:
All I know is that I’ve rejected loads because the NEC rating was over 500.

Hi Radar19,

The 500kg NEQ (UK only) relates to some stuff though, cos for others, the UK only NEQ cut-off can be either 0kg NEQ or 50kg NEQ.

Please don’t worry too much about that unless you’re the owner of the vehicle, cos the responsibility belongs very firmly with the carrier, NOT the driver.

It was fireworks that I was carrying. I had one load that was over 700 NEQ, they weren’t very pleased when I told them I was taking it.

Ahh, I see.

Thanks for the extra info. :smiley:

If the fireworks were 1.4S, then the NEQ is still required to be stated, but there is no limit (apart from axle weights and GVW) to what you can carry.

34

My scariest load that I remember was a trailer full of Ronson lighter gas cans from (I think) Chester Le Street to Lisbon, Portugal, in the middle of summer.

35

Freight Dog:

Themoocher:

dieseldave:

Themoocher:
I don’t know what CDG and ADTP is if I’m honest mate.
I done the DG advisor for Surface and air ( ADR IMDG IATA ).
Then done a explosives advisor and storage requirements for explosives.

Sounds nice and fancy qualifications but has a lot of responsibility and turns into a bit of a nightmare.
If I never seen another DG note in my life I would be happy.

I’m always happy to help. :smiley:

As you know, ADR is valid for international movements of dangerous goods by road.

CDG is a set of Regs which modifies some of ADR and is valid for when UK domestic journey requirements differ from ADR.
ADTP is a further modifying and clarification by providing derogations and allowing time to get companies compliant.

I teach and advise on transport rather than storage, but the UK storage Regs for UN Class 1 have just had a massive revision.
A lot of the older Regs have recently been revoked, amended and re-fettled into an overarching set of Regs called The Explosives Regulations 2014, most of which came into force on 01/10/2014, whilst the rest of it comes into force on 05/04/2015.

Fortunately, there are good new ACOPs that are far easier to understand. :smiley:

I see.
I done all mine in the military a couple of year ago.
The first course I done was the normal DG with the manuals for the relevant surface or air.
The explosives I found a pain. But was made easier as the manuals were on a laptop. So you used the search instead of flipping through manuals.
But we also use military regs in the JSP for DG aswell.

The storage is quite straight forward.
Only put the right amounts of groups in each bunker.

DG is ok if your doing it all the time.
I hadn’t done it for a while and got told to sort out the DG ready for a deployment.
Just a epic :laughing:

Did you teach IATA regs too Themoocher? Was that in the mil?

Na I didn’t teach it.
It’s hard enough trying to get your head round it and understand. Never mind teach it.

36

weeto:
Worst has to be, was some spontaniously combustible substance in 3 flasks on a 20 ft flat between Hull docks and ICI Wilton, were they would swap the full flasks for 3 "empty ones.
Stuff was that volatile, it wasn’t allowed to sit on the dock, so was straight off the boat onto the trailer, and could only take it back to the dock just before the boat was due to sail, can’t remember what it was called, just knew it was bloody scarey stuff.

triethylaliminium?

one of the worst i carry is dimethylsulphate. looks like water and has no real odour (apparently)

37

The worst for me was a pack of detonators (6) irc, on a 15 ton man SV (army over kill) before I was allowed to leave the ammo depot I had to ratchet them to be bed, this box was the size of a ■■■ packet and was made of rubber containin 6 of the most volitile munitions I had ever carried from salisbury plains to brecon beacons off road too… my ■■■ was twitching…

But another scary one was I craned a large box of explosives onto my 9 ton man sv and took it from tidworth to lulworth cove, once I arrived I helped the armoured lads to crane it onto their Trojan where they took the lid off and it was a Python (missile) with 100m of explosive’s (in a rope form 3-4" thick) where they took it off to the range and fired it… I did try to film it but when it went pop, I ■■■■ myself and was filming the sky more than anything… but heres a link to a video of it…

  • Carl
38

Used to deliver loads of Xmas crackers…

39

■■■■■■■:

3300John:
Hiya i used to pick up small flasks of olium from Jamaca road london years ago NOT nice stuff

Nasty stuff, that olive oil. I think you mean oleum, bud. :smiley:

Oleum is concentrated sulphuric acid, aka “Oil of Vitriol”. that is 100% sulphuric acid with extra added sulphur trioxide to give it those nasty fumes that’ll take the lining off your lungs if inhaled.
Lab “tech grade” Sulphuric acid is about 98%, which does NOT have the same fumes, but still causes bad skin burns a few seconds after contact.
Battery acid strength is nowhere near 98% on the other hand, so battery acid on the skin should do no more than sting a bit, like domestos on the hands…

Neat Oleum is not particularily strong as an acid, since the neat fluid is oily, and lacks water (which tends to be what makes acids “acidic and corrosive to metals”.)
However, it’s a strong dehydrating agent, drawing water out of anything it comes into contact with. This drying out of the skin is what makes it burn so much ON the skin.

It also heats up when absorbing water - part of the “burning process” is being scalded by the superheated liquid.

The boiling point of Sulphuric acid is so high compared to other acids - that it is considered one of the most stable acids, and can be used to drive other acids out of their salts.
Apply it to table salt for example, and you can capture and dissolve in water the vapour produced as “Spirits of Salt” - also known as “Concentrated Hydrochloric Acid”.
Add H2S04 to Saltpetre - and you can distill this vapour off as Nitric Acid.

Do not add water to this stuff, do not make it moist by letting it drip in damp air (pretty much everywhere), and do not touch it with anything organic like clothes, wood, skin, apples, cider, and very small rocks. :stuck_out_tongue:

If you wish to dilute it - you add acid to a large amount of water (I used to use a bucket-sized beaker as a lab technician) allowing for the heat to disperse as you do so, as it will boil the water if the oleum is added too quickly. It will form a layer on the bottom of the vessel, so it needs a bit of stirring with a glass rod to get it to mix in with the water.

Spillages of neat Sulphuric acid can be safely covered with Bicarbonate of Soda, or Washing Soda. Although the reaction is exothermic, it won’t catch fire. The reaction products are essentially Cat Litter, Carbon Dioxide Gas, and Steam.
Keep away from the steam though, as it’s likely to still have some unreacted acid vapour in it.

The Bicarb of Soda/Sulphuric Acid reaction was also used to force water out of the old big red fire extinguishers.

Back to the original confusion with Oleum and Olive Oil - Mix these two together, and you’ll end up with “Sulphonated Detergent”.

40

dieseldave:

weeto:
Worst has to be, was some spontaniously combustible substance in 3 flasks on a 20 ft flat between Hull docks and ICI Wilton, were they would swap the full flasks for 3 "empty ones.
Stuff was that volatile, it wasn’t allowed to sit on the dock, so was straight off the boat onto the trailer, and could only take it back to the dock just before the boat was due to sail, can’t remember what it was called, just knew it was bloody scarey stuff.

It’s a shame you can’t remember what it was, cos it sounds quite “interesting” in that I’ve never heard of a proper rule that says it can’t stay at a place for X amount of time.

It was probably Hull container terminal policy for it to not sit on on quay, everything was to much trouble for them,even loading and unloading containers on to trucks. :smiling_imp:
If you’ve been in there, you’ll know what I mean!