Intake/l39:
Do any of the old codgers remember when we had reefer wagons for frozen and chilled goods, no refrigeration unit but “blocks of dried ice” there were cold stores all over the country that sold the blocks of ice. We done frozen chicken Liverpool to Bristol etc
and we’re still at the correct temperature when we arrived.
I remember the dry ice. In fact, I nearly sat on a block as a kid. Grabbed by the scruff of the neck just in time.
PS. Regarding joined up thinking was it Carryfast said we import lots of electricity from France? Anyway we certainly do and it’s mostly Nuclear generated. So if we dont build our own Nuclear power stations we will end up using French ones and pay even more for it.
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The diesel powered fridge is old fashioned and never really overhauled.
The are basically still the same as 40 years ago, Euro 0 or worse engine.
The solution is plug in points everywhere, and electric driven from the truck engine.
Modern truck engines are are lot more efficient in fuel, quieter, and much cleaner than the old fashioned donkey engine on a fridge.
The liquid nitrogen, liquid CO2 injection and dry ice worked extremely well, but are very costly to run.
Also health and safety would have a field day, as there are clear work instructions to be followed, any one who had a drip of liquid nitrogen falling on their skin from the roof dispensers know excactly where I talk about.
There is also no network for filling up on the road.
So go electric, stops all the arguments on the parking sat night, stops customers at delivery address complain.
If the Governement would be so kind to reimburse the difference with “red” for the usage of the fridge (easy to calculate) it would become kind of interesting.
And as added benefit, a substantial weight saving.
caledoniandream:
The diesel powered fridge is old fashioned and never really overhauled.
The are basically still the same as 40 years ago, Euro 0 or worse engine.
The solution is plug in points everywhere, and electric driven from the truck engine.
Modern truck engines are are lot more efficient in fuel, quieter, and much cleaner than the old fashioned donkey engine on a fridge.
The liquid nitrogen, liquid CO2 injection and dry ice worked extremely well, but are very costly to run.
Also health and safety would have a field day, as there are clear work instructions to be followed, any one who had a drip of liquid nitrogen falling on their skin from the roof dispensers know excactly where I talk about.
There is also no network for filling up on the road.
So go electric, stops all the arguments on the parking sat night, stops customers at delivery address complain.
If the Governement would be so kind to reimburse the difference with “red” for the usage of the fridge (easy to calculate) it would become kind of interesting.
And as added benefit, a substantial weight saving.
I’ve noticed that there are some plug in points appearing on lorry parking areas of MSA’s, it would be feasible to operate through a network like this, and with better insulated reefers, maintain required temp between overnight stops. As I stated earlier, Refrigerated Containers (reefers) hold temperature for best part of 24 hours, due to being better insulated 
Evil8Beezle:
Carryfast:
LNG isn’t the same thing as LPG regards availability at least.While there’s no reason to think that a spark ignition engine running on LPG should be much less reliable than running it on petrol.Will you knock it on the head with all this gas and hot air mate, gas just isn’t viable at the current price point.
Ask yourself this mate, if it was a viable option, don’t you think the companies that deliver gas like Calor and FloGas would be running them? They probably have the best price point, yet their accountants don’t agree with you. I wonder why that is?And yes, apparently Calor did try them and binned them off!
At the current ‘price point’ road fuel taxed LPG is around similar price as red diesel.Untaxed LPG,which is what would be used in a fridge engine,is a lot cheaper than that.
Exactly which spark ignition dedicated LPG fuelled truck engine did Calor supposedly use ?.While as it stands in the medium to long term the authorities probably won’t give anyone much choice by,rightly,taxing diesel fuelled stuff,that could be petrol/LPG fuelled,out of existence.Or at least strangling it with expensive emissions control to the point of making it unviable anyway in the short term.It looks like in this case that they are kicking that process off by warning people who run fridges and cars on diesel that they are likely to get hit by punitive taxation at some point in the medium term future.There’s no reason why they can’t add truck engines to that when they realise that it’s basically just a case of putting in some spark plugs and an ignition system and dropping the compression on existing diesel truck engines.
Meanwhile I’ll probably go out and mow the lawn using the petrol not diesel fuelled mower.With diesel fuelled fridges making about as much sense in a growing anti diesel environment as a diesel fuelled mower. 
Franglais:
PS. Regarding joined up thinking was it Carryfast said we import lots of electricity from France? Anyway we certainly do and it’s mostly Nuclear generated. So if we dont build our own Nuclear power stations we will end up using French ones and pay even more for it.
No my case is the same as Germany’s population.In that why support and encourage the nuclear industry anywhere in Europe,and the inevitability of another but much bigger Chernobyl,by using Nuclear power.When we’re standing on enough coal of our own to provide us with all we need.Let alone when Nuclear electric is also one of the most expensive options given a level playing field.
None of which is relevant to the fact that powering a road going fridge ideally needs it’s own independent power supply.With spark ignition petrol/LPG fuelled being the best and cleanest option in a ( rightly ) growing anti diesel environment.
There’s no such thing as “Red Petrol”. Hmm.
It’s my understanding that you only have to strain red diesel through dry white cat litter (fullers’ earth) to take the red dye out of it. You also have to re-filter it to get any bits floating around in it out as well of course, but that process would be a lot harder with Petrol, which amongst other things - is a pretty good organic solvent, and therefore more likely to dissolve things like resins, plastics, and even some halogenated materials including PVC over time. Of course, there’s no equivalent to “Ad Blue” for petrol either. The detergents in it that make it frothy are already in at the pump. “Momentum” unleaded costs more than the “windows 95” variety, but it’s more than just a bit of higher-octane blend inovolved. The cars I drive don’t much like the fancier petrol, and I’ve had a rather sulphurous smell from my cat converter despite it being a petrol vehicle that one doesn’t normally associate with such nasty niffs.
Winseer:
There’s no such thing as “Red Petrol”.
You can claim fuel duty relief on petrol not used for road fuel which effectively means similar as rebated ( red ) diesel.Although I don’t bother with all the aggro for the mower though. 
eddie snax:
caledoniandream:
The diesel powered fridge is old fashioned and never really overhauled.
The are basically still the same as 40 years ago, Euro 0 or worse engine.
The solution is plug in points everywhere, and electric driven from the truck engine.
Modern truck engines are are lot more efficient in fuel, quieter, and much cleaner than the old fashioned donkey engine on a fridge.
The liquid nitrogen, liquid CO2 injection and dry ice worked extremely well, but are very costly to run.
Also health and safety would have a field day, as there are clear work instructions to be followed, any one who had a drip of liquid nitrogen falling on their skin from the roof dispensers know excactly where I talk about.
There is also no network for filling up on the road.
So go electric, stops all the arguments on the parking sat night, stops customers at delivery address complain.
If the Governement would be so kind to reimburse the difference with “red” for the usage of the fridge (easy to calculate) it would become kind of interesting.
And as added benefit, a substantial weight saving.I’ve noticed that there are some plug in points appearing on lorry parking areas of MSA’s, it would be feasible to operate through a network like this, and with better insulated reefers, maintain required temp between overnight stops. As I stated earlier, Refrigerated Containers (reefers) hold temperature for best part of 24 hours, due to being better insulated
Those power points cost money and I’d hazard a guess that it costs more for a haulier to use those compared to using red diesel. Plus there is all the other problems that comes along with those. As evidenced earlier in the thread, it didn’t take long before they were ripped out of the ground by club plant pot in a companies own yard. You’ll find that those fridge only bays will be taken up by other trucks when parking gets tight. You seen it now in plenty of MSA’s. Car transporter only bays already taken by regular trucks for example.
Carryfast:
At the current ‘price point’ road fuel taxed LPG is around similar price as red diesel.Untaxed LPG,which is what would be used in a fridge engine,is a lot cheaper than that.Exactly which spark ignition dedicated LPG fuelled truck engine did Calor supposedly use ?.While as it stands in the medium to long term the authorities probably won’t give anyone much choice by,rightly,taxing diesel fuelled stuff,that could be petrol/LPG fuelled,out of existence.Or at least strangling it with expensive emissions control to the point of making it unviable anyway in the short term.It looks like in this case that they are kicking that process off by warning people who run fridges and cars on diesel that they are likely to get hit by punitive taxation at some point in the medium term future.There’s no reason why they can’t add truck engines to that when they realise that it’s basically just a case of putting in some spark plugs and an ignition system and dropping the compression on existing diesel truck engines.
Meanwhile I’ll probably go out and mow the lawn using the petrol not diesel fuelled mower.With diesel fuelled fridges making about as much sense in a growing anti diesel environment as a diesel fuelled mower.
TAX■■? 
You mean the way the government control things like resources and their usage?
Sounds like a conspiracy to me!
Yes it would be viable of if that tax was taken off and it was a cheap as water, but is that the way forward?
Just give the fridge manufactures an easy get out, and maintain or possibly increase the dependence on our planets finite resources. 
I don’t know what the answer is, but is bringing in boats from Puru with fracked LNG the answer?
Evil8Beezle:
Carryfast:
At the current ‘price point’ road fuel taxed LPG is around similar price as red diesel.Untaxed LPG,which is what would be used in a fridge engine,is a lot cheaper than that.Exactly which spark ignition dedicated LPG fuelled truck engine did Calor supposedly use ?.While as it stands in the medium to long term the authorities probably won’t give anyone much choice by,rightly,taxing diesel fuelled stuff,that could be petrol/LPG fuelled,out of existence.Or at least strangling it with expensive emissions control to the point of making it unviable anyway in the short term.It looks like in this case that they are kicking that process off by warning people who run fridges and cars on diesel that they are likely to get hit by punitive taxation at some point in the medium term future.There’s no reason why they can’t add truck engines to that when they realise that it’s basically just a case of putting in some spark plugs and an ignition system and dropping the compression on existing diesel truck engines.
Meanwhile I’ll probably go out and mow the lawn using the petrol not diesel fuelled mower.With diesel fuelled fridges making about as much sense in a growing anti diesel environment as a diesel fuelled mower.
TAX■■?
You mean the way the government control things like resources and their usage?
Sounds like a conspiracy to me!Yes it would be viable of if that tax was taken off and it was a cheap as water, but is that the way forward?
Just give the fridge manufactures an easy get out, and maintain or possibly increase the dependence on our planets finite resources.I don’t know what the answer is, but is bringing in boats from Puru with fracked LNG the answer?
‘LPG’ doesn’t involve any Peruvian fracking it’s just a cheap plentiful by product of existing fuel production. But no not indiscriminate taxation.It just means selective taxation to encourage the use of a cleaner and probably net cheaper fuel than a more expensive dirtier one wherever possible.Which the government has got right for once.As for the planet’s ‘resources’ what and who are we supposed to be saving them for.
Radar19:
eddie snax:
caledoniandream:
The diesel powered fridge is old fashioned and never really overhauled.
The are basically still the same as 40 years ago, Euro 0 or worse engine.
The solution is plug in points everywhere, and electric driven from the truck engine.
Modern truck engines are are lot more efficient in fuel, quieter, and much cleaner than the old fashioned donkey engine on a fridge.
The liquid nitrogen, liquid CO2 injection and dry ice worked extremely well, but are very costly to run.
Also health and safety would have a field day, as there are clear work instructions to be followed, any one who had a drip of liquid nitrogen falling on their skin from the roof dispensers know excactly where I talk about.
There is also no network for filling up on the road.
So go electric, stops all the arguments on the parking sat night, stops customers at delivery address complain.
If the Governement would be so kind to reimburse the difference with “red” for the usage of the fridge (easy to calculate) it would become kind of interesting.
And as added benefit, a substantial weight saving.I’ve noticed that there are some plug in points appearing on lorry parking areas of MSA’s, it would be feasible to operate through a network like this, and with better insulated reefers, maintain required temp between overnight stops. As I stated earlier, Refrigerated Containers (reefers) hold temperature for best part of 24 hours, due to being better insulated
Those power points cost money and I’d hazard a guess that it costs more for a haulier to use those compared to using red diesel. Plus there is all the other problems that comes along with those. As evidenced earlier in the thread, it didn’t take long before they were ripped out of the ground by club plant pot in a companies own yard. You’ll find that those fridge only bays will be taken up by other trucks when parking gets tight. You seen it now in plenty of MSA’s. Car transporter only bays already taken by regular trucks for example.
I know that, but I wouldn’t be so sure that they out strip the cost of using red diesel
eddie snax:
Radar19:
eddie snax:
caledoniandream:
The diesel powered fridge is old fashioned and never really overhauled.
The are basically still the same as 40 years ago, Euro 0 or worse engine.
The solution is plug in points everywhere, and electric driven from the truck engine.
Modern truck engines are are lot more efficient in fuel, quieter, and much cleaner than the old fashioned donkey engine on a fridge.
The liquid nitrogen, liquid CO2 injection and dry ice worked extremely well, but are very costly to run.
Also health and safety would have a field day, as there are clear work instructions to be followed, any one who had a drip of liquid nitrogen falling on their skin from the roof dispensers know excactly where I talk about.
There is also no network for filling up on the road.
So go electric, stops all the arguments on the parking sat night, stops customers at delivery address complain.
If the Governement would be so kind to reimburse the difference with “red” for the usage of the fridge (easy to calculate) it would become kind of interesting.
And as added benefit, a substantial weight saving.I’ve noticed that there are some plug in points appearing on lorry parking areas of MSA’s, it would be feasible to operate through a network like this, and with better insulated reefers, maintain required temp between overnight stops. As I stated earlier, Refrigerated Containers (reefers) hold temperature for best part of 24 hours, due to being better insulated
Those power points cost money and I’d hazard a guess that it costs more for a haulier to use those compared to using red diesel. Plus there is all the other problems that comes along with those. As evidenced earlier in the thread, it didn’t take long before they were ripped out of the ground by club plant pot in a companies own yard. You’ll find that those fridge only bays will be taken up by other trucks when parking gets tight. You seen it now in plenty of MSA’s. Car transporter only bays already taken by regular trucks for example.
I know that, but I wouldn’t be so sure that they out strip the cost of using red diesel
Exactly. So that’s why the Gov wants to stop use of Red. Once it’s full price white only, the industry will seek cheaper and cleaner alternatives.
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I’m just ■■■■■■■■ myself at the thought that they might move on next to look at my boat engine. 
Franglais:
eddie snax:
Radar19:
eddie snax:
[
I’ve noticed that there are some plug in points appearing on lorry parking areas of MSA’s, it would be feasible to operate through a network like this, and with better insulated reefers, maintain required temp between overnight stops. As I stated earlier, Refrigerated Containers (reefers) hold temperature for best part of 24 hours, due to being better insulatedThose power points cost money and I’d hazard a guess that it costs more for a haulier to use those compared to using red diesel. Plus there is all the other problems that comes along with those. As evidenced earlier in the thread, it didn’t take long before they were ripped out of the ground by club plant pot in a companies own yard. You’ll find that those fridge only bays will be taken up by other trucks when parking gets tight. You seen it now in plenty of MSA’s. Car transporter only bays already taken by regular trucks for example.
I know that, but I wouldn’t be so sure that they out strip the cost of using red diesel
Exactly. So that’s why the Gov wants to stop use of Red. Once it’s full price white only, the industry will seek cheaper and cleaner alternatives.
That’s probably true
My point was that, you could run a fridge un powered, as we do with reefer containers(rarely is a genset fitted), provided you could get them on power every 12 to 18 hours or so, again pretty much how we run reefer containers. For a more sensitive loads such as Ice Cream, you could fit a temporary power source (genset) again as we do with containers. The but is, the fridges need to have thicker better insulating walls, but the method of operation exists
She’ll have a new product out called GTL ( gas to liquids ) supposed to be the way forward. I’ve only seen it for off road use (red) so far . I think they worked out to produce diesel and petrol from natural gas
Harry Monk:
I’m just ■■■■■■■■ myself at the thought that they might move on next to look at my boat engine. [emoji14]
Ate you still on Red on waterways? I’ll stand correction but I think French fishermen had to start using White 10 or more years ago? Big fuss at the time? Are UK barges/boats/fishing craft on White or Red or ■■
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eddie snax:
Franglais:
eddie snax:
Radar19:
eddie snax:
[
I’ve noticed that there are some plug in points appearing on lorry parking areas of MSA’s, it would be feasible to operate through a network like this, and with better insulated reefers, maintain required temp between overnight stops. As I stated earlier, Refrigerated Containers (reefers) hold temperature for best part of 24 hours, due to being better insulatedThose power points cost money and I’d hazard a guess that it costs more for a haulier to use those compared to using red diesel. Plus there is all the other problems that comes along with those. As evidenced earlier in the thread, it didn’t take long before they were ripped out of the ground by club plant pot in a companies own yard. You’ll find that those fridge only bays will be taken up by other trucks when parking gets tight. You seen it now in plenty of MSA’s. Car transporter only bays already taken by regular trucks for example.
I know that, but I wouldn’t be so sure that they out strip the cost of using red diesel
Exactly. So that’s why the Gov wants to stop use of Red. Once it’s full price white only, the industry will seek cheaper and cleaner alternatives.
That’s probably true
My point was that, you could run a fridge un powered, as we do with reefer containers(rarely is a genset fitted), provided you could get them on power every 12 to 18 hours or so, again pretty much how we run reefer containers. For a more sensitive loads such as Ice Cream, you could fit a temporary power source (genset) again as we do with containers. The but is, the fridges need to have thicker better insulating walls, but the method of operation exists
I’m sure you’re right in that. I’ve no real experience in chill or frozen, but from listening to others it seems that once the doors are opened it all changes. I mean that a well insulated container backed onto a cold store dock full off load would be ok. A trailer doing multi drop to shops or cool stores might not be so good? And I’ve heard of fridge lads talking of picking stuff from pavk houses at near ambient temps and having to use their fridge to drag the temperature down.
I know what you say should make sense, but maybe not in all cases?
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yes boats still are on red but it’s a 60/40 split part propulsion and part heating so you only pay tax on part of it the marinas work it all out but of course with me been honest I never took 5 gallon of red down to my boat with me 
Franglais:
eddie snax:
[
That’s probably trueMy point was that, you could run a fridge un powered, as we do with reefer containers(rarely is a genset fitted), provided you could get them on power every 12 to 18 hours or so, again pretty much how we run reefer containers. For a more sensitive loads such as Ice Cream, you could fit a temporary power source (genset) again as we do with containers. The but is, the fridges need to have thicker better insulating walls, but the method of operation exists
I’m sure you’re right in that. I’ve no real experience in chill or frozen, but from listening to others it seems that once the doors are opened it all changes. I mean that a well insulated container backed onto a cold store dock full off load would be ok. A trailer doing multi drop to shops or cool stores might not be so good? And I’ve heard of fridge lads talking of picking stuff from pavk houses at near ambient temps and having to use their fridge to drag the temperature down.
I know what you say should make sense, but maybe not in all cases?Sent from my GT-S7275R using Tapatalk
Indeed, you’d have to pick where it would work and not work. In theory though, a fridge could be run long distance without its own power source. hooking up to power point during a daily rest period for 9+ hrs, fridges are hooked upto ferries power supply for crossings now anyway, but as you state multi drop would cause an issue. but for single destination, and single destination pre grouped multi supplier loads, it would work, and from my experience, which was a decade ago, a lot of work was like that, cant see it being that much different
Some say that using the fridge to drag the load temp down is bad practice, and that you should pre chill the fridge, but I allways felt this to be contradictory, if it was bad practice to use the fridge to drag down the load temp, then the same would surely apply to dragging down the ambient air temp in an empty fridge. I always found that frozen loads -18 or lower soon chilled down the fridge, it was the fresh loads that needed the fridge pre chilled +5 sort of temp.