Tesla electric lorry to be revealed next month

Carryfast:

elsa Lad:
Electric trucks, gas trucks etc is going to be the thing we be driving in inner citys in years to come, we going to have to get use to it worse luck,
me being a scanny V8 fan :cry:

Why wouldn’t you prefer to get the V8 converted to spark ignition and then run it on hydrogen.Bearing in mind that actually meets the conditions of the 2040 deadline. :confused:

Spark ignition wouldnt require the vastly increased strength and weight of an engine designed to run on diesel. A spark ignition turbo hydrogen engine could be smaller and much lighter in its construction. The Scania V8 as we know it would cease to exist…

elsa Lad:
slighty off thread but I drove a Scania with a 340hp engine run on cows [zb] and I never driven anything so gutless in my life, As I have driven trucks full time for over 30 yrs that’s saying something, 340 horses was super power at 38 tonnes when I first started

Electric trucks, gas trucks etc is going to be the thing we be driving in inner citys in years to come, we going to have to get use to it worse luck,
me being a scanny V8 fan :cry:

this will be us driving an electric truck then.

youtube.com/watch?v=1Bet9jmfdHU

elsa Lad:
340 horses was super power at 38 tonnes when I first started

Agree, look where its at now though, some 19t trucks have the same power. My old F7 224hp at 38t, now that was hard work and needed all of its 16gears… :grimacing:

AndrewG:
Spark ignition wouldnt require the vastly increased strength and weight of an engine designed to run on diesel. A spark ignition turbo hydrogen engine could be smaller and much lighter in its construction. The Scania V8 as we know it would cease to exist…

Maybe with the exception of spark ignition v diesel piston design at the end of the day to get a similar overall and specific torque figure requires a similar strength and capacity engine.A bit like the 1.0 Ford eco boost has an iron block not aluminium for example.While the premise of a converted spark ignition truck diesel running on 100% LPG has already long been a reality in the form of the Merc Actros at least and it’s obviously a relatively easy move from that to hydrogen and a lot more practical than going for an EV truck. :bulb:

To get hydrogen chemical stable is a difficult process and very risky.
Any contamination while fueling up will make it lethal and a chance of creating a hydrogen bomb.
The tanks to store it are ■■■■■■■■■■■ difficult to fuel and it takes ages to fill a small tank.
Birmingham University, University of Delft and Technical University in Eindhoven have been trailing with the small Honda car.
It’s not as easy and straightforward as here above is assumed, we are still way off.

It’s probably easier to build a small nuclear engine in a car or truck.
Advantage is that you only have to fill up once in a couple of years (bit like the submarines.

At the moment the creation of alternative fuels is going a right direction, chemical created petrol is not that far of, and is to a certain extend renewable.

I definitively see electric trucks and cars for distribution in the cities in the immediate future.
This will go fast.

Regarding V8 power, it’s easy to create an electric motor half the size of a V8 with 2000bhp and treble the torque.
Just try to get a test drive in an electric car, and realise the power is immediate there from the first turn.
Nothing more torque than electric and steam.

AndieHyde:
Or payload.
Them battery is mighty heavy.

can remember going into hotpoint on agency they had an experimental hybrid 10tonner on loan from Daff payload 2 tonnes due to the bateries so less than a current puddle jumper

Dragging up memories from the mists of time reagrding alternative fuel for heavy vehicles. Safeway at Aylesford got lumbered with enough lpg powered lorries (Scania 113 I think) to cause vehicle availability problems.

The other side of the coin was seen in most UK towns and cities. The Trolleybuses would leave their Diesel powered brethren for dead when it came to a standing start or hill climbing, often with a motor which was slightly lower powered than the ICE fitted bus.

nikolamotor.com/one
Look at this. This explains in pretty simple language what electric trucks could be, and should be, about.
Im not saying anything at all about this particular company, (named Nikola, not to be confused with Tesla*), whether or not their vehicles hit the roads anytime soon, whether its a foolish business plan, or a visionary leap into a better future for us all, I aint commenting on. BUT the premise of batteries on trucks using regenerative braking is sound. The idea of having multiple driven wheels will give better grip and stability. Unit wheels to drag a truck up hills, trailer wheels to regenerate on descents, keeping it all straight. The hydrogen bit of this project is great in principle, but Im not sure how the technology will develop for that. Id expect to see trucks with big batteries and more conventional IC engines before too long. Im surprised they arent here yet. Anyone who can tell me why is most welcome? Note: Im just an interested amateur, like most on here. I`m not claiming expertise, so feel free to correct me.

Carryfast:

rabb:

Carryfast:
It seems obvious that there’s more logic and practicality in alternative fuelled ICE powered vehicles ultimately in the form of Hydrogen,than EV’s.While the dash for EV’s seems to be more about lumbering the customer with a lower value less practical product,to create more profits for the manufacturers.Together with resulting over dependence on electricity and captive market for the expensive electricity suppliers in either case.

I would agree that Hydrogen fuel cells make sense for commercials (It takes a [zb] load of energy to produce Hydrogen) but not for the consumer market. It’s simply not sustainable.
Micro generation will kill off Hydrogen fuel cell in consumer cars. In the last 4 weeks alone, my solar panels on the roof have produced 60Kwh of electricity in [zb] Scottish weather. That’s enough to fully charge a 28Kwh electric car battery twice from 0% to 100%. That’s 250 miles of range for a family car straight from the sun without the need to strip hydrogen, condense it, store it at high pressure and strap it behind the baby seat in the boot.

Residential battery systems like the Tesla powerwall 2 and vehicle to grid technology in electric cars will put the Hydrogen nonsense to bed shortly as the price continues to fall . These smart grids are just around the corner.

If you dabble in stocks & shares, get some money invested in Lithium mining :slight_smile:

Firstly I wasn’t referring to fuel cell technology.I was referring to burning hydrogen directly in conventional ICE powered vehicles.

While assuming that we’re going for loads of electricity generation anyway to power EV’s.Then we might as well use it and put up with the downside of Hydrogen’s production inefficiencies for the upside of not having to drag loads of expensive batteries around the country in addition to all the other expensive,over priced and unreliable technology that goes with EV’s. :bulb: Also bearing in mind that using hydrogen would be a game changer in terms of ICE emissions.Also bearing in mind that conversion of existing diesel engines to spark ignition gas engines is already existing proven technology.On that note great let the market decide which it prefers between hydrogen fuelled ICE v your expensive and ultimately less efficient,not to mention ‘less fun factor’,battery powered EV nightmare.

While it seems clear that the EV agenda is mostly about the real or perceived profits for the manufacturers,in flogging battery powered toys at,or more than,a proper ICE powered vehicle price.In addition to the profit and tax potential of smart metered electricity supplies to fuel the things.Which is really what this EV propaganda agenda,based on the bs that other,better,alternatives,to meet the 2040 deadline,supposedly don’t already exist in the superior form of Hydrogen fuelled ICE,is all about. :unamused:

greencarcongress.com/2006/09 … nts_f.html

youtube.com/watch?v=Kx4F5JuCUuk

The research you linked to is from 11 years ago. Energy density and technology has moved on since then. History will prove BEV advocates were correct.

caledoniandream:
To get hydrogen chemical stable is a difficult process and very risky.
Any contamination while fueling up will make it lethal and a chance of creating a hydrogen bomb.
The tanks to store it are ■■■■■■■■■■■ difficult to fuel and it takes ages to fill a small tank.
Birmingham University, University of Delft and Technical University in Eindhoven have been trailing with the small Honda car.
It’s not as easy and straightforward as here above is assumed, we are still way off.

It’s probably easier to build a small nuclear engine in a car or truck.
Advantage is that you only have to fill up once in a couple of years (bit like the submarines.

At the moment the creation of alternative fuels is going a right direction, chemical created petrol is not that far of, and is to a certain extend renewable.

I definitively see electric trucks and cars for distribution in the cities in the immediate future.
This will go fast.

Regarding V8 power, it’s easy to create an electric motor half the size of a V8 with 2000bhp and treble the torque.
Just try to get a test drive in an electric car, and realise the power is immediate there from the first turn.
Nothing more torque than electric and steam.

I’ve test driven an EV and have ordered one (Hyundai Ioniq EV). Instant torque is a phenomenal experience.

caledoniandream:
To get hydrogen chemical stable is a difficult process and very risky.
Any contamination while fueling up will make it lethal and a chance of creating a hydrogen bomb.
The tanks to store it are ■■■■■■■■■■■ difficult to fuel and it takes ages to fill a small tank.
Birmingham University, University of Delft and Technical University in Eindhoven have been trailing with the small Honda car.
It’s not as easy and straightforward as here above is assumed, we are still way off.

It’s probably easier to build a small nuclear engine in a car or truck.
Advantage is that you only have to fill up once in a couple of years (bit like the submarines.

At the moment the creation of alternative fuels is going a right direction, chemical created petrol is not that far of, and is to a certain extend renewable.

I definitively see electric trucks and cars for distribution in the cities in the immediate future.
This will go fast.

Regarding V8 power, it’s easy to create an electric motor half the size of a V8 with 2000bhp and treble the torque.
Just try to get a test drive in an electric car, and realise the power is immediate there from the first turn.
Nothing more torque than electric and steam.

Firstly we know that it takes a massive amount of energy to trigger an H bomb so the idea that a dodgy Hydrogen connection leak would cause a nuclear explosion is bollox.When the reality is the stuff is no more dangerous to handle than LPG or petrol is.

As for electric powered vehicles v ICE as I said so long as it’s a matter of freedom of choice then the market can decide what it prefers.On that note it’s not a matter of how powerful your electric motor is it’s how to store and/or deliver that power to the motor.Let alone the reliability and expense of an EV component chain v ICE and the cost of smart metered and distributed electricity.Or for that matter the ‘fun factor’ in that the average ICE fan,myself included,isn’t going to be impressed by some miserable whining EV as opposed to the soul contained in a decent ICE car or truck motor.History also not being on the EV option’s side in that regard.Meanwhile if electric power is as good and cost effective as the EV fan boys say it is then we’d obviously have expected to see a switch to all electric rail freight locomotives and shipping,as opposed to diesel and diesel/electric,long before now and we’d all be heating our homes with electricity not gas.

Similar dependence on the expensive electricity generating/supply industry being the main downside of hydrogen fuelled ICE.Not the idea that it’s got any connection with an H bomb.But with the upside of that dependence being translated as the wholesale electricity prices available to the Hydrogen producers.Rather than smart metered local EV fuelling provision at an inevitable massive cost and mark up to the consumer added to the equally inevitable rip off of battery costs whether lease or purchase.

Which then leaves the question that this new post fossil fuel world really will be the choice between the far lesser,if not imagined,downsides of fossil fuel use v the all too real downsides of what happens when nuclear energy generation goes wrong. :unamused:

cav551:
The other side of the coin was seen in most UK towns and cities. The Trolleybuses would leave their Diesel powered brethren for dead when it came to a standing start or hill climbing, often with a motor which was slightly lower powered than the ICE fitted bus.

And as we know trolley buses were wiped out because of the costs of maintaining them and fuelling them.With ICE predictably winning easily on all counts at the end of the day.On that note the best compromise in this case would be to just get rid of dirty diesel engines in favour of LPG.

Carryfast:

cav551:
The other side of the coin was seen in most UK towns and cities. The Trolleybuses would leave their Diesel powered brethren for dead when it came to a standing start or hill climbing, often with a motor which was slightly lower powered than the ICE fitted bus.

And as we know trolley buses were wiped out because of the costs of maintaining them and fuelling them.With ICE predictably winning easily on all counts at the end of the day.On that note the best compromise in this case would be to just get rid of dirty diesel engines in favour of LPG.

I thought trolley buses disappeared because of having to put the infrastructure into the rapidly expanding suburbs of the towns and cities where they were operating, the general reduction in public transport use with the rise of car ownership meaning a lot of investment with less payback and the ease of putting diesel buses onto new routes.

I thought you of all people would have been pleased to see less reliance on oil products, due to dodgy regimes of many of the main producers and the influence they, and the global oil companies, have over Western governments.

muckles:
I thought trolley buses disappeared because of having to put the infrastructure into the rapidly expanding suburbs of the towns and cities where they were operating, the general reduction in public transport use with the rise of car ownership meaning a lot of investment with less payback and the ease of putting diesel buses onto new routes.

I thought you of all people would have been pleased to see less reliance on oil products, due to dodgy regimes of many of the main producers and the influence they, and the global oil companies, have over Western governments.

The premise that Electric = more expensive and less cost effective than ICE stands in either case whether battery powered or fixed cable.

As for supposed reliance on Arab oil.That reminds me of British vehicle users being told that fuel prices are going through the roof because of the Arabs when we were self sufficient in oil and still would be if we didn’t give it all away to the Germans etc etc in exchange for worthless cash spent on imported stuff we could make for ourselves.While ironically LPG supplies are more widely available from numerous sources including our own requiring less reliance on potentially hostile suppliers.Although I thought that the Saudis are our ‘friends’ anyway.While we’re also sitting on a mountain of our own coal supplies which can be turned into same which for some reason we’ve chosen to bury rather than use.

Meanwhile the government goes on about the same old bs that we must stop using fossil fuels,based on non existent global warming,in the form of oil at least while continuing to flog off what remains of our own reserves of the stuff for others to burn and long term plans for ever increasing growth in civil aviation.Something doesn’t exactly add up here in it looking like a stitch up to benefit the electricity generators and the EV manufacturers.Especially when taking into account the propaganda crusade against hydrogen fuelled ICE powered vehicles in favour of EV’s. :unamused:

muckles:

Carryfast:

cav551:
The other side of the coin was seen in most UK towns and cities. The Trolleybuses would leave their Diesel powered brethren for dead when it came to a standing start or hill climbing, often with a motor which was slightly lower powered than the ICE fitted bus.

And as we know trolley buses were wiped out because of the costs of maintaining them and fuelling them.With ICE predictably winning easily on all counts at the end of the day.On that note the best compromise in this case would be to just get rid of dirty diesel engines in favour of LPG.

I thought trolley buses disappeared because of having to put the infrastructure into the rapidly expanding suburbs of the towns and cities where they were operating, the general reduction in public transport use with the rise of car ownership meaning a lot of investment with less payback and the ease of putting diesel buses onto new routes.

I thought you of all people would have been pleased to see less reliance on oil products, due to dodgy regimes of many of the main producers and the influence they, and the global oil companies, have over Western governments.

Looks like the “trolley bus” type era is making a comeback on the autobahns of Germany with electric trucks.

Good stuff. So it’s a hybrid without batteries. I can see that’ll work in some situations. It’s not the ultimate answer to all our futures in transport, but it’ll help out.

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Franglais:
Good stuff. So it’s a hybrid without batteries. I can see that’ll work in some situations. It’s not the ultimate answer to all our futures in transport, but it’ll help out.

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Yes hybrids, seems like the best of both worlds. here is the piece I was reading. insideevs.com/siemens-to-build-f … or-trucks/

bald bloke:
Any pictures about to look at ?

Not too many pictures about yet but rumour has it that it may look something like this :smiley: :smiley:

Have a look at this.
mashable.com/2017/09/19/nikola-b … dU9nrKqiqn
Dave.

davemackie:
Have a look at this.
mashable.com/2017/09/19/nikola-b … dU9nrKqiqn
Dave.

I’m having trouble viewing that link. I’ll try later.
But having Siemens as partners ups the credibility of this project n my eyes.

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