Opps! Wrong place!!
marcustandy:
Opps! Wrong place!!
Now look what you have done, you will get them all bickering again 
I cant see how anyone working solely for a quarry operator who is tied to them and their opening times can be an owner driver.
If I bought a concrete mixer, I would want it delivering concrete all day, every day, not when Hanson, Topmix, Pioneer told me
Wheel Nut:
marcustandy:
Opps! Wrong place!!Now look what you have done, you will get them all bickering again
I thought i’d been quick enough to remove my mistaken post…then you spotted it Malc, and told evrybody! 
Wheel Nut:
I cant see how anyone working solely for a quarry operator who is tied to them and their opening times can be an owner driver.
As far as my friend (who is on for Hanson) is concerned, he also thinks that he isn’t an OD as regards the WTD. He says it hasn’t affected him too much though.
Wheel Nut:
If I bought a concrete mixer, I would want it delivering concrete all day, every day, not when Hanson, Topmix, Pioneer told me
I’ve said it before but they keep him busy and he’s doing alright (financially) out of it. But you’re right, lets not start all that again!! 
Wheel Nut:
I cant see how anyone working solely for a quarry operator who is tied to them and their opening times can be an owner driver.If I bought a concrete mixer, I would want it delivering concrete all day, every day, not when Hanson, Topmix, Pioneer told me
Agreed. The deal is you provide them with a vehicle & driver which they then use as they wish. What all these schemes do for the company is to save them the trouble of having to purchase vehicles and employ drivers - they want the good side of having a tied company fleet without the burden of paying salaries, pensions etc etc.
You MAY earn more than you would if employed depending upon your workload luck and what sort of motor you can afford and you can throw all your toys out of the pram, go home in a huff and not get the sack which you would do if employed.
The Inland Revenue has watched these schemes for years as it feels they are sailing close to the wind as regards employed status.
Still, you pays your money you takes your choice
i dont think theres a problem at all lard. i remember when tarmac first took the cacky howard blokes on probably mid 80’s i know a lot of them, they basically had a wage bag! lol! that soon had to stop, but the game must be sorted with the taxman now as these schemes have been going so long, we never got a problem and when i wound up, the taxman did our books to save paying the accountant! in fact im tempted to get another block carrier myself, i allways earned more than any driver, but started and finished when i wanted.
we run two trucks on port traction, a year old r series & a 2.5 year old fh mega, we work max 5.5 day week, the work is split between a good ppm rate & job rates for locals ( 1 of our jobs pays £120 for a 13km round trip!)
we just had our accounts back & in the last 12 months we made £28000 pure profit, if we had been fueling up in belgium as we have started to do that figure would be nearer £40000, & that is pure profit, everything is payed 1st
it can be done, you just need a little luck behind you & have some idea of what you are trying to achieve, if you believe you can do it, go for it, only you know the answers to the questions, theres crap out there & theres decent honest people, but if you show them that you are green they will milk you!
best thing to do is to have a net to catch you if you fall, its a gamble so only play with what you can afford to loose!
good luck & merry xmas!
paul
a little luck■■? not much of that in o/d, but as you say flatbed it can work, the saying is… HAULAGE WILL EITHER MAKE YOU ! OR BREAK YOU!!! and it is normally the last one aswell, daz
just thought i’d dig this up, in case anyone was still interested.
about six months ago five tarmac topblock lads moved into our yard for parking.
over the weeks got to know em, saturday morning chats etc, now, they are all contracted hauliers and been doing it many years, one fella has been there eighteen, this is how they go about it, they take a brand new wagon on every three year on a scheme where the monthly payments are relatively low and then theres a ballooon payment at the end of the agreement which is covered by the sale of the wagon and they start again. the unit is their choice and spec and are covered as far as maintainence, inspections etc for the three years, trailers are bought new or out of the system, i.e if a lad is selling his trailer it goes on tarmac’s system for another tarmac haulier to buy etc.
they are all back at tea time loaded for the next day, no nights out but reasonably early starts. the rates are actually good to say they’re garuanteed the work, they all say that over a year taking into account the slack winter months they clear £800 a week on average which lets face it, running a new wagon aint bad. but the thing is, it’s a clossed shop, one out one in type of thing, maltby where they work out of has said they’ll take on two this year, no more no less so it’s not easy to get in! not sure if it would be my cup of tea but getting it from the horses mouth does dispel some of the secondhand horror stories you hear.
this is a really interesting topic. i have phoned tarmac and enquired about this work and spoke to the regional manager who deals with this . he made it sound worthwhile and agreed to meet me and hopefully set things in motion. he was going to phone me when he was over my way , in a couple of days. well, that was nearly two weeks ago, and still aint heard from him. i think i’ll phone him monday.
paul b:
they are all back at tea time loaded for the next day, no nights out but reasonably early starts. the rates are actually good to say they’re garuanteed the work, they all say that over a year taking into account the slack winter months they clear £800 a week on average which lets face it, running a new wagon aint bad.
How early would you count as “reasonably early”? I wonder how much POA they have on the job. If they can clear 800 on day work only and stay legal under the WTD then they’re onto a winner IMO, as it means an average day of only about 10h so if the starts are really early it means mid afternoon finishes.
Paul
they leave around 5-5.30 obviously dependant on where they’re going with the first load and they’re self employed so don’t have to bother with this wtd nonsnse, and before any train spotters jump on me because they only work for one firm, theres many ways to get around that! one of them actually goes out all week, working out of variouse tarmac plants which is his choice and you’d assume pays a bit better. as i understand it they’ve chosen to finance their wagons on that basis, off their own backs, if you go through tarmac you have to stump up 10% of total cost of unit and trailer on day one.
paul b:
they leave around 5-5.30 obviously dependant on where they’re going with the first load
I wouldn’t count that as early, 5-6am is a normal start time for me.
paul b:
and they’re self employed so don’t have to bother with this wtd nonsnse, and before any train spotters jump on me because they only work for one firm, theres many ways to get around that!
Yes but (assuming the ways round it are actually legal and would stand up in court) that only gets them out of it for another 3 years and given any new finance deal is going to be that long or longer then it’s something you have to bear in mind before comitting yourself or you could find it suddenly goes very pear shaped around March 2009. It would be interesting to know how many hours they actually do each week.
Paul
do you seriously think any self employed person is gona take a blind bit of notice of the wtd in 2009? thats if it’s still current legislation? which i very much doubt it will be as every firm i know has found ways round it so their drivers can do as many hours as they want.
personally i don’t really see the point of these o/d schemes, ok the money is potentially more than you’d get in wages but lets face it, your still on the end of a peace of string just as you are as an employed driver. there’s a lad due to come into our yard at the end of this month, he gone on with a brand new unit and trailer, who knows what thats gona cost him a month? but he’s coming off of general and never done brick or block 
thats just crazy to me, but he must’ve looked into it and is happy he can make it pay.
theres a few firms in this area that offer these type of shcemes, owens and hargreaves on tippers are two but it seems a very one sided setup to me, the driver takes all the risks financially but the named firm takes the profit.
paul b:
it seems a very one sided setup to me, the driver takes all the risks financially but the named firm takes the profit.
Yeah, the way I see it is that if there was loads of money to be made then why on earth would they contract the work out and not do it themselves and keep the profit in house?
Paul
repton:
paul b:
it seems a very one sided setup to me, the driver takes all the risks financially but the named firm takes the profit.Yeah, the way I see it is that if there was loads of money to be made then why on earth would they contract the work out and not do it themselves and keep the profit in house?
Paul
Both relevant comments but don’t you think that could be said about most of the work that OD’s get?
Companies take on owner drivers and do schemes like Tarmac because :
Owing that much money gets you out of bed everyday ! Every O/D is more productive than an employed driver as they reap the rewards .
Simple really !!!
marcustandy:
Both relevant comments but don’t you think that could be said about most of the work that OD’s get?
To a point, there are various degrees of it though. At one end you get people like paulb and coffeeholic who get the truck, o-licence, fuel etc off their own backs and then go out and tout for work, and at the other end you get the “contracted hauliers” at places like tarmac and so on where the company you’re tied into subbing for sorts out the truck (and finance), fuel cards, parking, and so on for you and basically you end up doing little other than actually driving it as though you were employed by them plus a paperwork overhead and financial risk.
Paul
We have been in a local quarry since the 1960s, last year they put adverts in the local press for franchise hauliers so the question was asked how we stood ,i was told if we want to remain in the pecking order get them painted in the colours so 3 out of 4 have been done and the other can stop.As it stands our place has picked up a contract with the local highways so it looks ok however our rival who lost the job is not looking so good ,hauliers stood around i hear.Tarmacs, Hanson et all dont welcome their rivals trucks into their units, its a bit of a worry to me if i have gone to all the time and expense of getting tied to 1 company then another gets all the work