Tacho Card as Defence for NIP

[davey_driver]

ron9516:
Petrock Wrote:

You only have the legal right to see any evidence against you, AFTER you have elected to go to court. Which you can only do by completing the NIP and receiving a conditional offer, which you then must refuse and elect to go to court.

Rubbish !!!

I recieved an NIP for speeding in my car, I requested photographic evidence to identify the driver and it was sent to me within 10 days, the photo was of the rear of the car. I accepted it was my car and as its only insured for me to drive accepted the points, then found out the following week a mate contested a similar case in court stating his friend could of been driving on his own insurance and as the picture did not show the drivers face he could not be sure who was driving as they both used the car that day, he referred to a local case in which CPS dropped charges against 2 joyriders as each claimed the other was driving after an elderly chap was mown down, and the court threw out the case against him on the grounds of lack of evidence to substantiate who was driving.

[semtex]

ron9516:
(The right of the Police to request this information has been appealed to the House of Lords and upheld).

This may be true, however there is a case being taken to the european court of human rights over this matter, so it is far from a done deal

www.righttosilence.org.uk

[westie]

Hi All,

Many thanks for all the interesting replies. As yet only the firm as received the NIP and have named me as the driver. If the plods send me an NIP I am going to request the evidence and then decide whether to take it to court ( I most likely will). My TM is contacting the factory where I was loading so hopefully their records will confirm my tacho time as being correct.
If I get done then this will be my last time whilst working as a driver. I resent the fact that I can be fined for doing a job which, In my opinion, I was doing correctly. I have just about had enough of driving for a living and this is the final straw.

Regards and thanks again
westie

[krankee]

Going back to the original question.

It is not unknown for an incorrect registration to have been ‘read’ from the photograph, or for the DVLA records to be wrong, but as this particular vehicle obviously uses this section of road on a reasonably regular basis, those possibilities can probably be discounted.

The other alternative is for an incorrect date to have been put on the Notice. An easy mistake.

The best thing to do at this stage is arrange for the form to be returned with the information that is being requested. DON’T query anything at this stage.

Wait for the F.P. to come through and THEN check the details on that.

The IMPORTANT thing to do at this stage is to start gathering evidence. Contact the firm and speak to the Data Manager. (If they have CCTV or a booking in system - then they should have someone appointed to this role.)

Find out what records that there are likely to be and put him on notice that you wish these records to be ‘preserved’.

Find out this person’s name and follow up with a letter for their attention sent by Recorded Delivery post. Any messing about, complaint straight to the Information Commissioner.

As regards tachos. Taking one with you to Court, as has been said, would be pretty meaningless, even if there was someone there who knew what they showed.

You haven’t said if you drive the same vehicle, but if you do, then arrange for all of the charts for that week to be independently analysed. If you drive different vehicles, then, ALL of your charts for that week, plus ALL of the charts used in THAT vehicle, that week, will need to be submitted for analysis. When sending them off you need to make clear that you are not requesting an ‘Infringement report’. What you are requesting is a report as to whether the charts appear to accurately reflect the activities of THAT vehicle during the week in question and the activity of the vehicle at a specific time/date.

It is the report from the Transport Consultant and a statement from the Data Manager that will ultimately decide the result.

I hope that helps.

[ron9516]

Davey Driver Wrote

Rubbish !!!

I received an NIP for speeding in my car, I requested photographic evidence to identify the driver and it was sent to me within 10 days, the photo was of the rear of the car. I accepted it was my car and as its only insured for me to drive accepted the points

NOT rubbish

The Legal position is as stated. Some police forces will send out photographs, an increasing number will not. Because so many people are requesting them it is tying up resources. I was stating the fail safe legal position. If Westie were to withhold his NIP until he got his photographs he would leave himself open to a S172 charge.

Your mate was lucky, for every person who gets off using this defence, hundreds don’t. The magistrate then think you are a wide boy trying it on and pass a higher sentence (points & Fine). Remember you do not need any formal legal qualifications to be a magistrate.

http://www.dca.gov.uk/magistrates/candidates/qualifications.htm

This leads to a certain type of person becoming a magistrate, normally the same type who want speed cameras every 100 yrds.

For further advice on how to proceed I would suggest

PePiPoo: Helping the motorist to get justice

Especially the section on Disclosure.

[ron9516]

Semtex wrote

This may be true, however there is a case being taken to the european court of human rights over this matter, so it is far from a done deal

Good news indeed. I thought this had run up a brick wall when Idris Frances ran out of steam. Although I’m sure it will be a cut and shut job by the government. No way are there just going to roll over and let the cash cow die.

There will be another way, maybe invite you to fill out the form, when you refuse, invite you to attend a police station in the area the offence was committed (at your expense) and interview you under PACE. Then the court can then infer what it whats from your silence.

I’m sure the French, Dutch & Germans have a workable system the the British Government could adopt. It would be interesting to hear from Trucknet members who live in these countries what the system is.

[marcustandy]

ron9516:
I’m sure the French, Dutch & Germans have a workable system the the British Government could adopt. It would be interesting to hear from Trucknet members who live in these countries what the system is.

Brit Pete will also be able to tell you more but from my time (4 years) working in Germany, there was never no question as to who was driving etc.

The camera’s there are all forward-facing and when the NIP equivalent comes through the post there are enlargements of the picture included that clearly show the drivers face and the VRN. There isn’t really any ‘getting off’ with their system.

What is better though, is the system that gives points on a sliding scale i.e. if you are only 5 - 8 kmh over the limit, then you will only get 1 point etc. There are also stiffer ‘punishments’ depending on where you comit the offence i.e. 10 kmh over on an Autobahn is treated lighter than 10 kmh over in a built up area. Outside a school a more severe than an ‘other’ built up area.

I don’t think that there is too much extra administration and costs involved, otherwise the Germans wouldn’t use it!

[kate]

Westie,
Is the vehicle fitted with a Tracker? If so ask for a copy of the Tracker report, to back up the evidence on your Tacho. I have done the same as I was flashed , doing 31 in a 40 zone.. Waiting to hear more when I get back to the UK on Monday.
Good Luck.

[rexyu]

Just a thought…is it worth asking the police to send you a copy of the calibration certificate for the camera/equipment used?

I do know that calibration is required at specific intervals. They just might have slipped up.

I haven’t read all this thread, so my apologies ifr somebody has already raised this.

Steve

[buttyman]

rexyu:
Just a thought…is it worth asking the police to send you a copy of the calibration certificate for the camera/equipment used?

I do know that calibration is required at specific intervals. They just might have slipped up.

I haven’t read all this thread, so my apologies ifr somebody has already raised this.

Steve

I read on another site that the time to ask for evidence of calibration is in the courtroom, and dont even mention it before that time.
Most attending police officers wont have the appropriate calibration paperwork and certificates with them and a judge will not want to adjourn the proceedings to another date, therefore it has been known for a judge to dismiss the proceedings due to the police being illprepared for their prosecution.

Anythings worth a try.

[rick_b]

Kate:
I was flashed , doing 31 in a 40 zone..

PMSL

[fred_kanka]

westie:
Hi All,

I have just been informed by the firm I am working for that there is a notice of inpending prosecution on its way to me for doing 35 in a 30mph limit. Now I know this road well, even though it is a dual carriageway with nothing but waste land at the side of it, there is an unmarked van parked on it frequently. I am convinced that I was not speeding so asked to see my Tacho charts for the day. The offence was supposed to have taken place at 12.18pm but my tacho chart shows the vehicle stationary from 12.14 until 13.00 apart from a small movement at 12.25 which was less than 20kmph. I know from my time sheets that this was the time I was at a factory loading.
My question is, as anyone used a Tachograph chart as evidence in a speeding case and is it worth going to court.

Thanks for all comments
regards
westie

I am sure it’s enough to take Mail you got,visit the Officer with your Tachochart and let tell ya what he thinks about it.

[rexyu]

That’s excellent and I’m pretty sure that you’re right. The only thing is …wouldn’t one have to enter a not guilty plea first, before you could expect police to bring sufficient evedence to court? Of course a not guilty plea at the initial proceedings means an adjournment to go to trial. No matter, as long as you don’t give ahint to the police of what you will be demanding.

Well worth the try though

Steve

[ron9516]

Don’t get me wrong I hate these things BUT!!!

Before you embark on trying to get off this charge ask yourself.

Did I drive down the same road the offence was committed on, to the factory I was parked at?

Remember we are only talking about four minutes difference between your tacho and the time the offence took place and although you have not said I believe (Reading between the lines - forgive me if I’m wrong) that the factory where you were loading is in the vicinity of the road on which the offence took place.

If the answer is YES then dont try to get off on a technicality because all that will happen is you annoy the magistrates and will incur a bigger fine more points and court costs. You are not the first to try it and you will not be the last.

If you think you did not commit the offence and only you will know. Then ring up the office where the ticket is issued from and ask for a photo or an opportunity to view the video. You never know it might be a totally different vehicle.

This should help you make your mind up whether to proceed or not.

Do not just go to court and try and ambush the CPS on the inspection certificate thing. All that will happen is the case will be adjourned, as the CPS have a right to have sight of what evidence you are relying on for your defence.

Good Luck

Let us know what you decide