Roymondo:
Had a new (to us) driver from the agency turn up for a shift today. After climbing into the cab of our high-tech ultra-modern (59 plate) Daf CF auto, he fumbled and fudged around for a while, attempting to select reverse gear using the wiper/indicator stalk, before admitting defeat and asking how to select reverse and release the parking brake…
Armed with the correct information, he then proceeded to reverse across the yard and backed under the trailer. He got it well under, but not far enough to engage the pin in the jaws. Even so, he then climbed down from the cab and tried to put the dog clip in. Having no joy (and bearing in mind the engine was still running, with reverse gear selected and the beeper squawking away) he then ducked right under the trailer and started peering into the jaws of the 5th wheel, presumably to see what was going on. At this point, our driver assessor cried “enough” and sent him away.
I do sometimes wonder where they get them from…
your from dav mate! that says it all
He was agency with no experance
Hows the blue chip snobery doing
still getting muppits to stand on left foot and wave with right hand and sing the company song as well
Ac the days of me singing and dancing in northampton and rugby are long gone
I have enough experance now to say screw you bunch of little nioes Im going for a proper job now
And that lad will proboly do the same thing one day unlless he is a complete ■■■■■■■ that dose not give a ■■■■
chester:
How many regular employed drivers were driving them units illegaly since 2006 bloody muppets.
But they were not driving them illegally. The offence (or rather, the breach of duty) committed in respect of missing No Smoking signs has nothing at all to do with driving (or the driver) of the vehicle. As you say - bloody muppets
Are you telling me that no driver has never been fined for not displaying a nonsmoking sign?
Reminds me of the time I was sitting in a Sainsbury’s yard waiting for paperwork. One of their units came round and backed under a trailer. The driver did everything right - lowered the suspension, backed under, raised it and engaged the fifth wheel with a loud clang. He got out and looked under, then coupled up the lines. Then he switched on the lights and flashers and set off with his plate to the rear of the trailer. So far so good.
All that remained was to wind the legs up. He started winding, and it was obviously in low gear, but he still carried on. I was just getting out to go and show him when a shunter stopped and beat me too it.
chester:
How many regular employed drivers were driving them units illegaly since 2006 bloody muppets.
But they were not driving them illegally. The offence (or rather, the breach of duty) committed in respect of missing No Smoking signs has nothing at all to do with driving (or the driver) of the vehicle. As you say - bloody muppets
Are you telling me that no driver has never been fined for not displaying a nonsmoking sign?
I have no way of knowing what fixed penalty notices may or may not have been issued in respect of such omissions, let alone whether drivers may or may not have been duped or bullied into paying them on behalf of their employer - although I am led to believe that some operators have indeed been penalised. But I doubt that any driver has actually been found guilty (and fined) by a court for a made-up offence of “driving a vehicle without a No Smoking sign” - mainly because there is no such offence.
For the avoidance of doubt, the duty to ensure those signs are displayed rests with the occupiers and those who are concerned in the management of smoke-free premises - and correspondingly the operators and those concerned in the management of smoke-free vehicles. There is no such duty imposed on mere employees/users of such premises or vehicles.
chester:
How many regular employed drivers were driving them units illegaly since 2006 bloody muppets.
But they were not driving them illegally. The offence (or rather, the breach of duty) committed in respect of missing No Smoking signs has nothing at all to do with driving (or the driver) of the vehicle. As you say - bloody muppets
Are you telling me that no driver has never been fined for not displaying a nonsmoking sign?
I have no way of knowing what fixed penalty notices may or may not have been issued in respect of such omissions, let alone whether drivers may or may not have been duped or bullied into paying them on behalf of their employer - although I am led to believe that some operators have indeed been penalised. But I doubt that any driver has actually been found guilty (and fined) by a court for a made-up offence of “driving a vehicle without a No Smoking sign” - mainly because there is no such offence.
For the avoidance of doubt, the duty to ensure those signs are displayed rests with the occupiers and those who are concerned in the management of smoke-free premises - and correspondingly the operators and those concerned in the management of smoke-free vehicles. There is no such duty imposed on mere employees/users of such premises or vehicles.
I assumed he was saying it’s an ADR reg??
If he’s saying it’s a general defect, it’s obviously not and the trucks have been through plenty of tests since 2006.
I meant defect as in the way somthing needs rectifying before I drive it on a public highway.
If they is not a No Smoking sign displayed then illegal
Smoking sticker displayed, then it’s fine and dandy.
Why did that firm order a shed load of no smoking signs then? gov.uk/smoking-at-work-the-law
Own Account Driver:
Isn’t it just a duty of care to prohibit smoking in an around the vehicle?
Not expert on ADR but either way not sure I’d mark myself out as a troublemaker for anything so pointlessly trivial.
Yeah it’s trivial but it’s a legal requirement!
So your saying Iam a trouble maker by keeping myself legal??
I bet you got many a good tale about logbooks, magnets, ■■■■■■■■ twinsplit etc!
Own account driver is defo one who takes it from behind so to not rock the boat, so to speak.
Iam doing my profession legally and you question it
I went to pick up some new units a wee while ago. There were 2 of us so I drove down and he would drive back. We came back in a scania with range change and splitter. The other driver was very experienced, over 20 years driving, but had never seen this gearbox before. I just sat and laughed as he crunched his way out of the yard.
Own Account Driver:
Isn’t it just a duty of care to prohibit smoking in an around the vehicle?
Not expert on ADR but either way not sure I’d mark myself out as a troublemaker for anything so pointlessly trivial.
Yeah it’s trivial but it’s a legal requirement!
So your saying Iam a trouble maker by keeping myself legal??
I bet you got many a good tale about logbooks, magnets, ■■■■■■■■ twinsplit etc!
Own account driver is defo one who takes it from behind so to not rock the boat, so to speak.
Iam doing my profession legally and you question it
It’s always a balance between doing the job safely, covering yourself, and getting a reputation as a pain in the [zb]. Get this right, and you get the better work. Also, using the defect book/procedure wisely means that when there is a real significant problem the fitters are more likely to feel like helping you.
Being honest a no smoking sticker or lack of it would not prevent you doing the shift safely, VOSA would not give a monkeys about it, and it would have been equally fine for them to fit it one at some point later.
BTW I recently got pulled in a fleet car showing up as no insurance, (was fleet policy) and the the no smoking sign helped convince the boys in blue it was a fleet vehicle.
chester:
I meant defect as in the way somthing needs rectifying before I drive it on a public highway.
If they is not a No Smoking sign displayed then illegal
Smoking sticker displayed, then it’s fine and dandy.
Why did that firm order a shed load of no smoking signs then? gov.uk/smoking-at-work-the-law
If you read what’s on that page you will see that the display of No Smoking signs is listed as being the responsibility of the company, and it is the company who would be penalised for any breach (You can confirm this by reference to the Health Act 2006). The position of the driver is exactly the same as that of say, a warehouse operative - would you say the latter was “working illegally” if he didn’t down tools and go stand outside until the prescribed signs had been put up?
By all means point out the omission to the company, but refusing to take the vehicle out until signs have been put in place is “to keep yourself legal” is at best misguided.
chester:
I meant defect as in the way somthing needs rectifying before I drive it on a public highway.
If they is not a No Smoking sign displayed then illegal
Smoking sticker displayed, then it’s fine and dandy.
Why did that firm order a shed load of no smoking signs then? gov.uk/smoking-at-work-the-law
If you read what’s on that page you will see that the display of No Smoking signs is listed as being the responsibility of the company, and it is the company who would be penalised for any breach (You can confirm this by reference to the Health Act 2006). The position of the driver is exactly the same as that of say, a warehouse operative - would you say the latter was “working illegally” if he didn’t down tools and go stand outside until the prescribed signs had been put up?
By all means point out the omission to the company, but refusing to take the vehicle out until signs have been put in place is “to keep yourself legal” is at best misguided.
Does the truck legally need the sign before it leaves the yard?
Was I right to make sure the truck was legal to leave the yard?
Yep!! that’s right keeping myself legal
Like I said in a previous post, if the permanent drivers and the hauliers knew the basics, they wouldn’t need agency drivers like me highlighting where they are falling foul.
It only takes a tug off the DVSA and when they open the cab door and see the company, and drivers can’t follow the simplest of regulations like placing a sign in a workplace environment eg truck cab, to make them wonder what their maintenance schedule is like.
Does the truck legally need the sign before it leaves the yard?
No!
The company is responsible for it having one whether in the yard, on the road, or on the moon for that matter. They get done, not you. Taking it on the road doesn’t affect anything.
By all means mention that not having one is a 200 quid fine, in a helpful manner, but refusing to drive is over the top and would instantly convince me to make sure you didn’t come back, just because of your attitude. Help them out! make a temporary one out of a scrap of paper or something!
Save the “I’m not driving that” line for serious problems, because if you cry wolf every 10 minutes no one will listen the day you have a bald tyre.
Does the truck legally need the sign before it leaves the yard?
No!
The company is responsible for it having one whether in the yard, on the road, or on the moon for that matter. They get done, not you. Taking it on the road doesn’t affect anything.
By all means mention that not having one is a 200 quid fine, in a helpful manner, but refusing to drive is over the top and would instantly convince me to make sure you didn’t come back, just because of your attitude. Help them out! make a temporary one out of a scrap of paper or something!
Save the “I’m not driving that” line for serious problems, because if you cry wolf every 10 minutes no one will listen the day you have a bald tyre.
You seem to have a fetish for no smoking signs, given your forum avatar. It’s 4 quid for a pack of 25. Why not splash out, then you can make your hobby your job as well
Juddian:
Now that everyone’s condemned this bloke, lets break it all down.
First things first, he’s got an audience of at least one driver and an assessor/trainer, presumably watching but not being exactly shall we say helpful.
Obviously he’s never had an auto DAF before cos he didn’t know about the gear selector and its manoeuvering functions, he may never have had the dubious pleasure of ZF’s version of automatic clutched hell before, he may have had a Volvo, he may have had a Scania, both of which are at least able to competently control torque when picking up a heavy.
So he’s now found reverse cos one of the audience has shown him where it is, he’s backing under this trailer then, presumably loaded, knowing how the clutch on these things behave he’s probably reached that point where you have to provide loads more torque to get the thing to push under.
Remember those watchers…now does it need a bit more power to push it in (often with an almighty bang) or has he got it off centre and trying to push against the king pin with one side of the fifth wheel.
So being a sensible sort of chap he’s pulled the parking brake on and got out to have a look see where he is before he does some damage.
Unfortunately with his audience enjoying this, and bearing in mind he’s never had a ZF auto before, certainly not a DAF or MAN anyway, he’s got flustered, who wouldn’t have by then, and forgotten to take it out of gear.
Now as to safety, as he’s being watched at this point, did he put the parking brake on before diving under to have a poke nose?, if he did whats the big deal, if he didn’t then a gentle reminder at that point, or rather a bit of help for a bloke in a new place might have been more productive than the way he was treated.
When you who can do no wrong get another new type of lorry to drive, i hope its in a strange place, with regular full timers milling about watching and waiting (but not helping/instructing) for you to muck up…the you might recall this incident.
Blimey - you seem to know all about this incident and you were not even there (unless it was you in the driver’s seat…?).
For the record - No, he did not have “an audience of at least one driver”. He had the yard pretty much entirely to himself as everyone else was busy in the warehouse, loading the rigids for that day’s runs. No assessor either as company policy is that a new (to us) driver can be used once without assessment.
Having failed dismally to locate Reverse gear on the hidden rotary selector and the parking brake (and let’s face it, the Daf CF parking brake control is totally unlike those on any other make of truck…), he then sought advice - Unfortunately from a non-driving Temp who is employed as a driver’s mate to assist a driver (me) who is recovering from a chest/shoulder injury. This non-driving Temp was naturally unable to assist him, and, feeling that the bloke really didn’t have a clue, went to find an experienced driver from the transport office who could help. Said driver just happens to be one of our assessors, and he went out to offer advice/assistance. He found the bloke already out of the cab and ducking under the trailer (Transmission in Reverse and engine running, unit park brake not applied). He was asked if he had checked the trailer park brake and fifth wheel height (response: shrug of shoulders). He didn’t appear to think there was anything wrong with what he had done (I only know that he hadn’t engaged the pin because I was tasked with taking the thing out after he had been sent off-site).
Nobody was “enjoying” what went on - his efforts with the wiper stalk and the dog clip only came to light after the dust had settled. The only person present was the assessor who, in his own words, came to the conclusion that the only way he would feel confident letting him loose on the road would be to sit with him for the entire shift.
Interestingly, had he been ‘experienced’ and belted under the trailer without checking anything on either the unit or trailer, gone tear arsing out of the yard and buggered off, there’d have been no issue. And yet potentially, such a driver would have been just as big a liability.
It’s a funny old world the driving game…
Maybe potentially but at least he can drive the thing.
You appear to have accepted now that the responsibility for the signs rests entirely with the company, and of course you have done the correct thing in pointing out their breach.
But it’s much the same as any number of other certificates/signs that are required to be displayed (or accessible) in the workplace - e.g. Employer’s Liability Insurance, Fire exit signs etc - If the signs were not in place, would you point this out? Probably you would. Would you refuse to use that building until they were put up though?
Roymondo:
Had a new (to us) driver from the agency turn up for a shift today. After climbing into the cab of our high-tech ultra-modern (59 plate) Daf CF auto, he fumbled and fudged around for a while, attempting to select reverse gear using the wiper/indicator stalk, before admitting defeat and asking how to select reverse and release the parking brake…
Armed with the correct information, he then proceeded to reverse across the yard and backed under the trailer. He got it well under, but not far enough to engage the pin in the jaws. Even so, he then climbed down from the cab and tried to put the dog clip in. Having no joy (and bearing in mind the engine was still running, with reverse gear selected and the beeper squawking away) he then ducked right under the trailer and started peering into the jaws of the 5th wheel, presumably to see what was going on. At this point, our driver assessor cried “enough” and sent him away.
I do sometimes wonder where they get them from…
your from dav mate! that says it all
He was agency with no experance
Hows the blue chip snobery doing
still getting muppits to stand on left foot and wave with right hand and sing the company song as well
Ac the days of me singing and dancing in northampton and rugby are long gone
I have enough experance now to say screw you bunch of little nioes Im going for a proper job now
And that lad will proboly do the same thing one day unlless he is a complete [zb] that dose not give a [zb]
You are missing the point. This “blue chip” company are paying top banana to an agency for a pro with 2 years experience.
They got a newbie which maybe would have been ok if he wasn’t being a muppet in the yard, I’m all for cracking on & cutting corners to get the job done but there is a limit. Wether the firm knew he was green before he turned up I don’t know.
I’ll have a double of whatever you’ve been on, B&D!
