try it in reality and see what happens,or google it for a more real world perspective. you can have aa 3 year old as a company secretary and still be legal,same as a major shareholder…though a director needs to be 16 I think,after it goes ringaringaroses,it goes away,though theres no big deal in a scoolie getting points for a licence they wont get for another 10 years…where theres a will…google it,and watch the points vanish.
Directors in the UK need to be 18
Driver-Once-More:
Directors in the UK need to be 18
is that to do with having a Credit rating ?
Much the same as a credit card and stuff
nick2008:
Driver-Once-More:
Directors in the UK need to be 18is that to do with having a Credit rating ?
Much the same as a credit card and stuff
not sure. I only know this because I became Company Secretary of a company and was asked if I was over 18, (I’m 55)
nick2008:
as for the vehicle with no tacho fitted in the end both drivers would be failing to provide the information so I suppose both could be done technically
They can’t prosecute two drivers for the one offence, as only one of them who where named by the company could of been driving the vehicle at the time of the alleged offence, is there an expectation that the drivers should be able to reiably recall which of them was driving at the time in question after several months have passed,? I’m sure that a defence lawyer would argue that it was unreasonable for the prosecution to expect this several months after the date that the offence was alleged to of taken place , and if both drivers said it wasn’t me gov then the prosecution are screwed,because they cannot do the both of them
Didn’t the Hamiltons do exactly this?
Both claimed that the other was driving and both got away with it.
company directors must be a minimum age of 16…company secretarys or shareholders have no minimum age…I just googled it again to make sure.so even if they can actually fine/put points onto a limited companys secretary for not providing information as to who was driving,then its irrelevant if theyre too young to be driving,and its highly unlikely for them to be done anyway assuming the v5 is in the name of a limited company. same for 2 drivers,it just opens up a can of worms,moreso if the drivers are named johhny foreigner with a similar address…knowing and proving works wonders
Conor:
No, you get a fine, points or a ban. The person who would get the points or ban would be the company secretary. Limited companies still have people who are liable and it is usually the company secretary or officers of the company who get to carry the can.
The 1st NIP goes to the registered keeper & they are responsible for indentifying the driver or risk a fine + points on their licence.
If ABC & co ltd are the RK then things change as it’s impossible to endorse the driving licence or ban it from driving for a simple reason… ABC & co ltd can’t & never will hold a licence to drive!
It can’t be passed down to the company secretary (or anyone else in the company) because they are NOT the registered keeper, the company is. Questions may be asked about vehicle use logging but as far as the NIP goes it’s a £1000 fine.
Para 4 & 5 to section 2 of nick2008’s link apply;
A person shall not be guilty of an offence by virtue of paragraph (a) of subsection (2) above if he shows that he did not know and could not with reasonable diligence have ascertained who the driver of the vehicle was.
This defence has been used successfully, however it would be very difficult to prove reasonable diligence and still no know who was driving at any particular time. You would be expected as a company to have a robust system in place to record who was driving at the time.
(5)Where a body corporate is guilty of an offence under this section and the offence is proved to have been committed with the consent or connivance of, or to be attributable to neglect on the part of, a director, manager, secretary or other similar officer of the body corporate, or a person who was purporting to act in any such capacity, he, as well as the body corporate, is guilty of that offence and liable to be proceeded against and punished accordingly.
Don’t know about the points but the fine is certainly going to be painful.
tommy t:
So the supplying of 2 drivers details it seems flummoxes the system in place,
Only if a court of law accepts you took all reasonable measures to try and identify the driver. If they don’t then they’ll just let you carry the can.
And as for speed cammeras they are no more than revenue generators, In particular on managed motorways, where temp restricions are left in place longer than needed,or no need for the restriction in speed in the first place , and roadworks where no work is taking place at the time the scammera was triggered so imo if there is a loophole that saves paying the parasites then it should be exploited to the hilt
Speed restrictions are left in place where there’s roadworks with nothing going on because the cones, existing ground works and lack of central reservations present a hazard. Comes as no surprise that you’re incapable of seeing this.
not always the case with roadworks, as for giving the details of who was driving the boss could not know which of the 2 drivers in the said vehicle was driving at the time of the alleged offence,
of course he would have records of who was in what vehicle and when, but if it’s double manned and both employees hold the licence to drive it, then all he can be reasonably expected to do is disclose details of both drivers, unless it was a vehicle with a tacho fitted then he would/should have the charts/data from their cards to be able to see which of the 2 was driving at the time of offence,
No if it was a double manned vehicle without a tacho, the company would have to prove that it had a system in place to record who was driving at any particular time (eg Logbook) and that the system is checked and working, but on this particular occurrence the drivers failed to log the journey. Note that if is proved that the system was not robust enough or not checked regularly and action taken against offenders, then due diligence would have failed. Two drivers just saying we can’t remember who was driving at the time isn’t going to wash.
£1000 fine and no points works for me…how much would you lose with no brief for 12 months,i think the £1000 is worth the money.any other officialdom heat is just water off a ducks back.if your an owner operator working for yourself with the vehichle registered to the company,what yould you take.,£100 and 3 points,or £1000 and walk away happy…?
Here’s a rather quaint and novel idea.
Why not just follow the f**king speed limit.
Who said nobody gets the points?
Where a body corporate is guilty of an offence under this section and the offence is proved to have been committed with the consent or connivance of, or to be attributable to neglect on the part of, a director, manager, secretary or other similar officer of the body corporate, or a person who was purporting to act in any such capacity, he, as well as the body corporate, is guilty of that offence and liable to be proceeded against and punished accordingly.
Yes I realise you could put the company in your grannies name and employ a second driver to travel with you, just so that when you get caught you can dodge the 3 points. But surely slowing down would be a more cost effective way to run a company.
Mr Physick:
Here’s a rather quaint and novel idea.
Why not just follow the f**king speed limit.
wheres the fun in that…millions must agree or there wouldn’t be anyone speeding… 
slow down…drive within the speed limits,don’t bend the rules,how does that work when your on trip money or a o/d. my post wasn’t about what to do,my post was about if your vehicles in a limited co name,then theres every option to bounce the points…assuming you didn’t want to take them.
But surely to bring the option to bounce into play you would have to prepare the scenario at great expense before hand by putting your non driving granny in all the key roles within the company & hauling another qualified driver around with you to create the doubt should the speeding ticket land on the doorstep.
So yes in theory it could be done, in practice it is impractical.
ron9516:
No if it was a double manned vehicle without a tacho, the company would have to prove that it had a system in place to record who was driving at any particular time (eg Logbook) and that the system is checked and working, but on this particular occurrence the drivers failed to log the journey. Note that if is proved that the system was not robust enough or not checked regularly and action taken against offenders, then due diligence would have failed. Two drivers just saying we can’t remember who was driving at the time isn’t going to wash.
Log book’s /record of times each driver was behind the wheel, lol sorry that may work in theory but there’s no way it would work in reality,seriously ,So what can they do if they are unable to ascertain prove beyond reasonable doubt in a court who the driver was then? not a lot would be my guess as it wouldn’t be in the public interest to waste resources and time on it, log books for driving a van,lol we aren’t part of the ussr yet to my knowlage
well the logic behind my post was that if you were an owner driver and went limited co on the v5,then theres a good chance you would have the option of taking a mega fine and no points if you refuse to tell them whos driving…and take any flak that comes from elsewhere as collateral damage…you would still have no points on your licence.with the satisfaction that you would have put the finger up to the enforcement section. 