Hombre:
As always a healthy debate!! My views are I would think fairly plain to see - I am fully in favour of the strike. The reasons are quite simple. Personally I have been affected by many of the factors mentioned by Vascoingles and as a result been made redundant - twice.
By making a stand and effectively bringing Spain to a halt we will at least open Madrids eyes to the seriousness of the problems faced by hauliers here and maybe, just maybe, Zapatero and his oppos might force the issue in Brussels. If they do then ALL european hauliers will benefit - not just the Spanish.
Since when has the modern day Politburo in Brussels ever listened to anyone apart from their own claims for more expenses ■■?
Vascoingles:
Since when has the modern day Politburo in Brussels ever listened to anyone apart from their own claims for more expenses ■■?
Absolutely, when have they? But they might just if enough people kick up a stink and make them listen. By that I mean concerted action across all of western europe - not just here in Spain.
A few of us were talking about the autocratic attitude in Brussels last night and everyone agreed its time for change. It was also pointed out that most of the EU Commisioners (the unelected who make the rules) are in the main failed politicians - Peter Mandelson for example who resigned twice over various dodgy dealings, Neil Kinnock failed Labour leader, the list goes on.
The point is that we are supposed to live in a democracy, although it can be very difficult to see sometimes. In a democracy the government are supposed to “listen” to the electorate, they are supposed to work for us. Usually however they forget the rules once they are sitting happily on the gravy train - this strike should serve as a reminder to them as to why they are where they are.
I will now await the comments about strikers being undemocratic, theyre bound to arrive sooner or later.
stanley. i was that way too. i’ll keep my eyes out next time.
some good points being made in this thread, and nice too see it hasn’t turned into some daft slagging match, good too see a few varied views on the whole subject.
the fuel speculators, are def at the root of the problem, goverments have a fair bit too answer for too mind. i don’t know the exact figure, but here in the uk, a large percentage of the price of a litre of fuel, is tax, going straight into the goverments pockets.
as long as no one is hurt, i really admire whats going on in spain, at least people are making a stand, win, lose or draw, you have too admire people for making a stand. it may come too nothing, but, if everyone just sat on their arse, and took all the costs and red tape that keeps getting shoved our way, then the goverments of the world will just keep shafting us, as much as they can.
i for one, look forward too the day that fuel does run out.
wonder what the alternatives will be.
fuel cell technology maybe.
mind you, i’m sure the bp’s, shells, repsols and the like are already working on this one. wonder what the tax will be like, on the eventual replacement for fossil fuels■■?
Unelected bods in Brussels have set the VAT on diesel at 15% minimum. Member governments can raise the tax above that but not lower. When interviewed one of them said ," Yeah I know its high but we are trying to get the EU away from an oil based economy & therefor save global warming." He offered no alternative to oil & went home for his dinner ,completely unconcerned.
Spanish lads were the original rate cutters of EU .When Spain first joined the EU they were given massive subsidies to bring the infrastructure up to speed. Anyone could be given a grant for a new truck .The deal being that repayments would be suspended for three years & then kick in. Jose’ & all his bro’s get their hands on state of the art flying machines & go to work .They undercut every other outfit in the EU & get all the work. The reason being that they based their rates on their costs ,which didn’t include repayments on the truck. After three years the repayments kicked in. Of course the rates were so low they couldn’t operate. They had that massive strike where EU trucks were wrecked ,lumps of concrete hung from bridges & drivers beaten up. The Spanish government footed the bill & big firms & owner drivers in Spain were given fleets of free trucks. No wonder they are again in trouble & little wonder they are striking again.
For the record in that big strike ;it started on a Sunday night .I crossed the Irun border in the early hours of Monday. I tipped Madrid,ran the blockade at Badacoz, three drops Portugal,crossed down in Huelva, got to Algerciras & reloaded Maroc.
A squadron from from my firm went Portsmouth -Bilbao ,stayed in Bilbao docks for three days ,returned Bilbao- Portsmouth went Dover Calais .I saw them in convoy coming from Le Jonquera when the srike was over . I was loaded & on my way home. I left Dover on a Friday ,they left Portmouth on the Saturday.Oh,& BTW they were all loaded one drop Maroc.
PS. I missed every one of the French & Spanish strikes thru just plain old good luck.
Given free trucks - well I cant comment on that as I simply do not know what the facts are.
As for Spain been given massive amounts of cash from the EU that is correct and that money has been extremely well invested, particularly into the transport infrastructure, schools, colleges, hospitals, electricity, water and gas supplies as well as numerous technology parks and industrial estates.
Just 40 years ago Spain was classed by the OECD as a third world country - now we have a superb road network, and (I think) more kilometres of ultra high speed railway line than any other country in the World as well as superb schools etc…
As for the comment about VAT on fuel being set at 15% and the comissar from Brussels shrugging his shoulders and buggering off home for his tea - THAT is the whole point about why this strike is occurring - because politicians control our lives, yet politicians do not suffer the consequences of either their actions or inaction.
but its the same people that have brought the standards of your adopted country to in my opinion better than the uk, nobody in spain was moaning about them then.
i also don’t know anything about them being given new lorries so can’t comment on that one, but they were very heavily subsidised to the point of almost giving them away.
i can remember when you hardly ever saw a spanish lorry away from spain and the ones you did see were old pegasos and ebros.
then iveco moved in and they started getting troners and a few more started venturing north
then came the ec grants and all of a sudden they had all the new volvos and scanias and they were everywhere but spain chasing the big bucks.
now they want protection to stop the new EC members doing to them what they’ve been doing for the past 15 years
do i feel feel sorry and solidarity for spanish hauliers? no
all that is happening there is that the new wave of rate cutters are forcing the spaniards more and more back into their own market and theres not enough work to go around for them all.
que va alrededor, viene alrededor, i know thats literal and i was told to put lo que anda, viene but the message is the same.
If you mean KaySara-KaySara, I’m wiv you.
Trouble is that all that dosh lent to Spain dragging it into the 20 century had to be paid back & now its payback time.
Originally the dosh for the trucks was a loan suspended for three years while the transport industry got on its feet but when it was time to repay by monthly instalments they all threw a wobbler & got their own way. I think everyone has a right to strike whenever they feel like it but the Spanish lads go over the top with their vicious attacks on trucks & drivers. I also believe that anyone that wants to break thru the strike should not have their face or truck bashed in. I remember the look on Calais’ chief of the Chamber of Commerce face as I broke thru the lines in Calais & headed to my boat. He’d jumped on my nearside mirror arm trying to stop me. Lucky for him I dropped him off on the link span.Scared him to death…
Unfortunately all the incidents in that report did happen, this has gone too far and mostly for the wrong reasons, the price of fuel is something that we all have to put up with but is not the root of all evil it is just one of a number of causes.
Most of Spanish transport is made up of owner drivers and companies with less than 5 vehicles all of whom seem to accept any old freight whether it pays or not, obviously this is a mistake as is this strike.
A far better course of action would have been to picket the companies that do not pay decent rates and let them suffer the consequences of their own green rather than make everyone suffer.
Today the big blockade on the A1 near Alcobendas was removed by force as was the blockade at La Junquera. The blockade at Irun was a bit more difficult as the picket line was actually on French soil so the Spanish police could not act and the French couldn’t be bothered, they have now been persuaded to at least temporarily lift the bolckade at Irun but it is still uncertain as to for how long.
harry:
Probably ,like most public protests these strikes get hi-jacked by the militant ■■■■■■■■ with their own agenda ;especially in BasqueLand.
I think that comment is extremely derogotory of the Basque people - they are not all members of ETA you know. In fact if you look at the Spanish economy and the centres of industry you will find that Pais Vasco has been one of the driving forces of economic growth in Spain for a very long time.
As for the strike, it is a little uncertain (certainly down here in Andalucia) what exactly is going to happen next. Yesterday there was no goods traffic at all, not even little delivery vans, today the vans are out again, but Ive not seen an HGV anywhere.
I can see the A7 just to the west of Malaga from here and I havent seen anything bigger than a delivery van all day.
I was talking to a couple of lads last night who run a small removal service. Yesterday afternoon they were on their way to deliver some household effects for someone who was moving house using a luton type van.
They were stopped just outside Casabermeja, just north of Malaga and told to park up. When they explained that the load included childrens beds and the kids would have to sleep on the floor if the delivery was not made, they were told they could deliver the beds (for all the family) but would have to unload the rest first.
As they had no choice this is what they did, when they got back to where they had left the customers gear, all the pickets had gone home bar one who was sat patiently waiting for them guarding the stuff they had left behind.
pity the rest of europe wouldnt do it.
the english one did nothing in london.
the british government are intransigent.
they need a lot more pressure on them and their ■■■■ style police force.
i am glad to see the french are starting next week.it wil create a shortage of consumer goods perhaps,but at least the ball game needs to start somewhere.
nothing like the militancy of the french and spanish to get this going.
fair play to them.
i am 100 percent behind these fuel protests.
governments are elected to do whats best for the people,not for themselves.
harry:
Probably ,like most public protests these strikes get hi-jacked by the militant ■■■■■■■■ with their own agenda ;especially in BasqueLand.
Apart from the blockade at Irun there have been very few incidents in “Euskadi” or baskenland as you wish to call it and absolutely none whereby violence was involved.
Hombre:
As for the strike, it is a little uncertain (certainly down here in Andalucia) what exactly is going to happen next. Yesterday there was no goods traffic at all, not even little delivery vans, today the vans are out again, but Ive not seen an HGV anywhere.
Time will tell Im sure.
You must have missed the three of mine that loaded in Albolote this morning then
I am away from it all now so they can do what they like in Bas/Land. In the old days in Irun they would call in a bomb scare & close the border down just to watch a football match on tv. Strikes ,bomb scares , bomb attacks & murder were all the go when I was going there. Oh & of course ,when it suited 'em they didn’t speak Spanish or French ,just Basquo .And that was just the waitress when you got out in the sticks. I like Espana but not Pay Basque.Its a place I will transit rapid or give a miss if poss. Don’t tell me they are lovely people ,they are different & thats that. I am talking about the working man here.The civilians were OK but if yer man in blue overalls could throw a spanner in the works ,he would .That goes also for the wonderfull cherry-pickers. Its possible that they’re a new generation these days but years of running the gauntlet has not endeared me to that part of the world.
Hope this doesn’t offend those sensitive souls among us…?
Harry is making a lot of sense here, I remember when the Spaniards were running around in those old corrugated Pegasos, all of a sudden they got a ■■■■ load of EEC money & all went out & bought big Volvos, a couple of years later Enasa (Pegaso) had to sell out to Iveco, then eventually shut down, tell me where their loyalty & patriotism was then?
This is all about bad business practice, yes fuel is going up, but there should be a price escalator in their rates, theyre all small companies though so they don’t have any power over their customers, but how did they get to be small companies? It was through the EEC grants allowing them to undercut everybody else competing for the same traffic. It never bothered them when they had the lowest costs in Europe, but when they have a level platform with the rest of us they resort to violence & blackmail, not good…
