SOLIDARITY=Join the Union or Not?

[latique]

those of you reading this and seeing the RMT as a strong union may like to know that they are actively recruiting in the transport industry’s many bus & coach drivers are now represented by the RMT so maybe they could be approached to represent us

oh and for the record iam a former railway signal man who saw his wages increase from 11k to 23 k in five years and my hours lower from 40 to 38 hours a week whilst staying in exactly the same position and doing exactly the same job all thanks to my union negotiating on my behalf so it can be done

[flunkey]

Latique:
those of you reading this and seeing the RMT as a strong union may like to know that they are actively recruiting in the transport industry’s many bus & coach drivers are now represented by the RMT so maybe they could be approached to represent us

oh and for the record iam a former railway signal man who saw his wages increase from 11k to 23 k in five years and my hours lower from 40 to 38 hours a week whilst staying in exactly the same position and doing exactly the same job all thanks to my union negotiating on my behalf so it can be done

Very interesting…food for thought any other takers?

[sidevalve]

Latique:
those of you reading this and seeing the RMT as a strong union may like to know that they are actively recruiting in the transport industry’s many bus & coach drivers are now represented by the RMT so maybe they could be approached to represent us

oh and for the record iam a former railway signal man who saw his wages increase from 11k to 23 k in five years and my hours lower from 40 to 38 hours a week whilst staying in exactly the same position and doing exactly the same job all thanks to my union negotiating on my behalf so it can be done

They may have done you proud mate but I’m afraid Bob Crow and Len McCluskey are cut from the same cloth in my book, out to stuff the incumbent government (and it don’t matter which) to prove their Marxist credentials. I wouldn’t trust either to run a village fete.

Incidentally would you like to tell us how many signalmen there were on the railway when you first started compared to how many there are now? And, for that matter, how many there are likely to be in about ten years when the whole UK system’s controlled from five ginormous power boxes?

[latique]

Sidevalve:

Latique:
those of you reading this and seeing the RMT as a strong union may like to know that they are actively recruiting in the transport industry’s many bus & coach drivers are now represented by the RMT so maybe they could be approached to represent us

oh and for the record iam a former railway signal man who saw his wages increase from 11k to 23 k in five years and my hours lower from 40 to 38 hours a week whilst staying in exactly the same position and doing exactly the same job all thanks to my union negotiating on my behalf so it can be done

They may have done you proud mate but I’m afraid Bob Crow and Len McCluskey are cut from the same cloth in my book, out to stuff the incumbent government (and it don’t matter which) to prove their Marxist credentials. I wouldn’t trust either to run a village fete.

Incidentally would you like to tell us how many signalmen there were on the railway when you first started compared to how many there are now? And, for that matter, how many there are likely to be in about ten years when the whole UK system’s controlled from five ginormous power boxes?

agree with you on Bob Crow but he wasnt involved in local day to day stuff that our very good union reps were always fighting our corner with a very aggressive management especially post privatization
what you say about signalmen is true as there wont be any as they will all be promoted to supervisors with many of my former colleagues retiring on final salary pensions based on £30-£60k not bad if aged around 55 - 60 thats a pension the union fought to protect & enhance understand your point but there is little ANY union could do when technology makes a man redundant .

was offering an option for others to consider maybe i should of kept my mouth shut and just moaned in rdc’s about poor pay hours and conditions like to many do instead of trying to look for a way to improve things

[flunkey]

Latique:

Sidevalve:

Latique:
those of you reading this and seeing the RMT as a strong union may like to know that they are actively recruiting in the transport industry’s many bus & coach drivers are now represented by the RMT so maybe they could be approached to represent us

oh and for the record iam a former railway signal man who saw his wages increase from 11k to 23 k in five years and my hours lower from 40 to 38 hours a week whilst staying in exactly the same position and doing exactly the same job all thanks to my union negotiating on my behalf so it can be done

They may have done you proud mate but I’m afraid Bob Crow and Len McCluskey are cut from the same cloth in my book, out to stuff the incumbent government (and it don’t matter which) to prove their Marxist credentials. I wouldn’t trust either to run a village fete.

Incidentally would you like to tell us how many signalmen there were on the railway when you first started compared to how many there are now? And, for that matter, how many there are likely to be in about ten years when the whole UK system’s controlled from five ginormous power boxes?

agree with you on Bob Crow but he wasnt involved in local day to day stuff that our very good union reps were always fighting our corner with a very aggressive management especially post privatization
what you say about signalmen is true as there wont be any as they will all be promoted to supervisors with many of my former colleagues retiring on final salary pensions based on £30-£60k not bad if aged around 55 - 60 thats a pension the union fought to protect & enhance understand your point but there is little ANY union could do when technology makes a man redundant .

was offering an option for others to consider maybe i should of kept my mouth shut and just moaned in rdc’s about poor pay hours and conditions like to many do instead of trying to look for a way to improve things

This all good positive stuff-as and when one reads between the lines-be positive…Trains/Buses &Coaches +the URTU= a plan for SOLIDARITY?

[sidevalve]

Latique:
agree with you on Bob Crow but he wasnt involved in local day to day stuff that our very good union reps were always fighting our corner with a very aggressive management especially post privatization
what you say about signalmen is true as there wont be any as they will all be promoted to supervisors with many of my former colleagues retiring on final salary pensions based on £30-£60k not bad if aged around 55 - 60 thats a pension the union fought to protect & enhance understand your point but there is little ANY union could do when technology makes a man redundant .

was offering an option for others to consider maybe i should of kept my mouth shut and just moaned in rdc’s about poor pay hours and conditions like to many do instead of trying to look for a way to improve things

I wasn’t intending to shoot you down mate, sorry if it came across like that; you do make a fair point about having good regoinal guys who will fight your corner. You’re right about the technology too, pity Scargill was too blind to see that.

[latique]

Sidevalve:

Latique:
agree with you on Bob Crow but he wasnt involved in local day to day stuff that our very good union reps were always fighting our corner with a very aggressive management especially post privatization
what you say about signalmen is true as there wont be any as they will all be promoted to supervisors with many of my former colleagues retiring on final salary pensions based on £30-£60k not bad if aged around 55 - 60 thats a pension the union fought to protect & enhance understand your point but there is little ANY union could do when technology makes a man redundant .

was offering an option for others to consider maybe i should of kept my mouth shut and just moaned in rdc’s about poor pay hours and conditions like to many do instead of trying to look for a way to improve things

I wasn’t intending to shoot you down mate, sorry if it came across like that; you do make a fair point about having good regoinal guys who will fight your corner. You’re right about the technology too, pity Scargill was too blind to see that.

no probs mate feel very strongly about unions thats all my farther and grandfather were big union men and instilled in me the belief that a good union can look after its members . My grandfather stood for parliament three times as a labour candidate in the 50s and was mayor of his local council he would be bewildered at the antics of nooo labour to appease big business. Scargill was lead by the nose into a fight he couldn’t win if he had held the required ballot ( which he most probably have won ) Thatcher would of been helpless as it would of complied with her rules and trumped her ace .the most pitiful sight i ever saw was members of the UDM rattling their tins for backing from other unions after effectively getting into bed with thatcher and breaking the strike .

[carryfast]

Latique:

Sidevalve:

Latique:
agree with you on Bob Crow but he wasnt involved in local day to day stuff that our very good union reps were always fighting our corner with a very aggressive management especially post privatization
what you say about signalmen is true as there wont be any as they will all be promoted to supervisors with many of my former colleagues retiring on final salary pensions based on £30-£60k not bad if aged around 55 - 60 thats a pension the union fought to protect & enhance understand your point but there is little ANY union could do when technology makes a man redundant .

was offering an option for others to consider maybe i should of kept my mouth shut and just moaned in rdc’s about poor pay hours and conditions like to many do instead of trying to look for a way to improve things

I wasn’t intending to shoot you down mate, sorry if it came across like that; you do make a fair point about having good regoinal guys who will fight your corner. You’re right about the technology too, pity Scargill was too blind to see that.

no probs mate feel very strongly about unions thats all my farther and grandfather were big union men and instilled in me the belief that a good union can look after its members . My grandfather stood for parliament three times as a labour candidate in the 50s and was mayor of his local council he would be bewildered at the antics of nooo labour to appease big business. Scargill was lead by the nose into a fight he couldn’t win if he had held the required ballot ( which he most probably have won ) Thatcher would of been helpless as it would of complied with her rules and trumped her ace .the most pitiful sight i ever saw was members of the UDM rattling their tins for backing from other unions after effectively getting into bed with thatcher and breaking the strike .

I think the evidence of how much support that Scargill had was there anyway.Thatcher wouldn’t have been helpless because ironically she had the backing of the British public many of who were the so called working classes who acted like turkeys voting for Christmas.The miners were defeated simply by the lack of unity of the whole union movement in not standing with the miners and calling a general strike in support of them.Then to add insult to injury the ‘New Labour’ project and agenda took off.The rest is history.

[wheel_nut]

DAF95XF:
I’m in USDAW

Here you go then, a sample of a few of the leaders salaries in the various unions. Not a lorry drivers wage that I see before me; USDAW in red at the bottom

Trades Union Congress
Brendan Barber
93,000
24,000
117,000

Unite the Union
Tony Woodley
93,815
28,293
122,108

Unite the Union
Derek Simpson
97,027
89,599
186,626
Unite the Union has Joint General Secretaries

Union of Democratic Mineworkers
Mick Stevens
95,285
67,564
162,849

Royal College of Midwives
Cathy Warwick
129,663
41,691
171,354

National Union of Teachers
Christine Blower
111,431
22,440
133,871

National Association of Head Teachers
Mick Brookes
102,967
26,103
129,070

Lloyds TSB Group Union
Ian Partridge
92,000
32,735
124,735

Fire Brigades Union
Matt Wrack
68,054
49,176
117,230

National Union of Rail, Maritime and Transport Workers
Bob Crow
84,923
28,088
113,011

GMB
Paul Kenny
84,000
28,000
112,000

Union of Shop Distributive and Allied Workers
John Hannett
85,812
27,344
113,156

The first figure is the salary, the second is the bonus payments and the third is the combined total.

[juddian]

Ah…^^^^^…the politics of envy.

Part of the reason why lorry drivers in particular but not exclusively almost never stick together and support one another.

If lorry drivers spent their time doing whats best for them, including looking at the big picture or further forward than next week, instead of staring with envy at other peoples gains they might get somewhere.

[dozy]

The majority of the drivers I know have had enough,there not interested in pay,hrs etc etc,there only interest is how soon will they get there redundancy,when will depot actually shut,if you have the zb beat out of you enough times you eventually die,but a slow lingering death,don’t think they’d want a union fighting for them,just prolong the suffering

[flunkey]

Juddian:
Ah…^^^^^…the politics of envy.

Part of the reason why lorry drivers in particular but not exclusively almost never stick together and support one another.

If lorry drivers spent their time doing whats best for them, including looking at the big picture or further forward than next week, instead of staring with envy at other peoples gains they might get somewhere.

This seems to be a factor caused by insecurity? Possibly due to a fear of rocking the boat on the job-i.e ■■■■■■■ off the management at work/getting fired & and getting replaced by a “new arrival”. If we were represented; as are the Railway folks…?

[latique]

FLUNKEY:

Juddian:
Ah…^^^^^…the politics of envy.

Part of the reason why lorry drivers in particular but not exclusively almost never stick together and support one another.

If lorry drivers spent their time doing whats best for them, including looking at the big picture or further forward than next week, instead of staring with envy at other peoples gains they might get somewhere.

This seems to be a factor caused by insecurity? Possibly due to a fear of rocking the boat on the job-i.e ■■■■■■■ off the management at work/getting fired & and getting replaced by a “new arrival”. If we were represented; as are the Railway folks…?

spot on tho it is a little harder to replace most safety critical railway posts which helps lead time of about four months start to taking over to train a signalman even longer for a driver

[flunkey]

Latique:

FLUNKEY:

Juddian:
Ah…^^^^^…the politics of envy.

Part of the reason why lorry drivers in particular but not exclusively almost never stick together and support one another.

If lorry drivers spent their time doing whats best for them, including looking at the big picture or further forward than next week, instead of staring with envy at other peoples gains they might get somewhere.

This seems to be a factor caused by insecurity? Possibly due to a fear of rocking the boat on the job-i.e ■■■■■■■ off the management at work/getting fired & and getting replaced by a “new arrival”. If we were represented; as are the Railway folks…?

spot on tho it is a little harder to replace most safety critical railway posts which helps lead time of about four months start to taking over to train a signalman even longer for a driver

Not that I know where they buried/wood chippered Jimmy Hoffa; but what is needed to motivate the lame majority? Some advice from the Rail Union and amalgamation with the URTU to create some competitive/collective healthy competition with the “champagne socialists” called “unite” that sponged/absorbed the T&G?

Functional minority action-NOW! Possibly include all the flip flops? Divide and Conquer? I am just putting it out there…Face it if you bought it a LORRY brought it!

[happy_keith]

fredthered:
‘… I am not jealous or envious of anyone for any reason …’

What

Not even a laundry-lad in a convent

Weirdo

[wheel_nut]

Juddian:
Ah…^^^^^…the politics of envy.

Part of the reason why lorry drivers in particular but not exclusively almost never stick together and support one another.

If lorry drivers spent their time doing whats best for them, including looking at the big picture or further forward than next week, instead of staring with envy at other peoples gains they might get somewhere.

The politics of envy, or your union subs, depends which side of the fence you sit.

[alamcculloch]

If you got it a lorry brought it,that includes bringing in the flip-flop brigade.

[solly]

Juddian:
Well i’m in a unionised job, every good job i’ve had and the current one is the best of all have been unionised, thats over a period of 37 years, my first job was unionised even then.

Yes unions have changed but on the shop floor level nothing has really changed.

The most important decison you will make as a collective is who is to be your spokesperson/shop steward, take time over that one for your majority terms and conditions are at stake.

A good steward has to wear two hats, one to negotiate strongly but fairly with the management, this means having the balls to stand up for whats right yet unable to be bought/bribed by being fed the right work to keep himself sweet.

The other hat is required to keep discipline in the ranks, once you negotiate (full sick pay for example) benefits then there is a sizeable minority too stupid not to take adavantage and milk the situation, which will eventually destroy the job from within.
This other hat is also needed to stop silly demands from ever reaching the ears of the management, you simply are not going to get a 20% raise in one hit combined with 20% reduction in hours, get real.

Choose a steward who is principled and has the majority of the members at heart not just themselves and their merry mates, i cannot stress this highly enough.

I’m really not interested in the political slant of the union bosses,[/b] they with certain exceptions are far removed from the workers they might once have been or presume to represent.
In many cases they have assisted the Blair govt in particular (the o present cabal no better) into unlimited immigration which has systematically and ironically destroyed millions of working peoples livelihoods, though they themselves like turkeys voted for their own Christmas and still do.
It is worth establishing a good union where you work, you only have to look at the RMT train drivers who have never allowed their jobs to be undermined like ours have over the last 25 years, they have stuck together and earn around £40/50k for a 40 hour week.
Oddly enough the companies concerned haven’t gone bust and they haven’t brought in thousands of often incompetent underskilled flip flops to take over as and where necessary because the union boss and his members put the members first, makes sense to me.
[/quote]
^^This 100% with the exception of the highlighted text.
I think “Union Bosses” need to be politicised, as many are.
Union members need their bosses to have knowledge of the parliamentary and “Business” system so they can be on level terms with “Employers Unions” and politicians so that they are less likely to be hoodwinked by those with the power to erode pay and working conditions.

[rob_k]

Nice soundbites chaps. Now you’ve had your monthly “we should start a union” rant, back to the real world please.

[carryfast]

Rob K:
Nice soundbites chaps. Now you’ve had your monthly “we should start a union” rant, back to the real world please.

The ‘real world’ in this case eventually being the choice of terms and conditions and income levels as they stood in real terms for the average worker in 1930 as opposed to 1970.