what gets me, if i tailgate to save money its dangerous driving, but yet its ok for a computer with a driver on board to do it legally 
Malky80:
The greed of the rich knows no bounds. Any job they can’t send overseas, they try to automate. Who will be their customers when we’ve all lost our livelihoods?The only beneficiaries from automated lorries are the companies saving money on wages. The government should kick this proposal in the stones right here and now. The Tories will never do such a thing though.
Well said.
burnley-si:
what gets me, if i tailgate to save money its dangerous driving, but yet its ok for a computer with a driver on board to do it legally
What I been wondering about, is differentials in the gross weight and wear and tear off the trucks. Here is what I’m thinking. Assume all the trucks are 44 tonners, the lead truck is grossing maybe 35 tons, then all have a mixture of different weights, including 44 tons gross, when the lead trucks jams on the anchors, its going to stop a bloody sight sooner than the truck grossing 44 tons. So does the lead truck have to factor this in, and therefore stop slower, what about if the lead truck has 50000kms on it, nicely bedded in, and then the 44 ton truck has 500000kms on it, all its brakes and tyres within legal parameters, but more worn all the same, that’s going to hinder its stopping effiecency. If the lead truck has to be sent all this information, or the each truck has to set its own safe stopping distance, then the convoy isn’t going to end up running that close. Open a up a larger between any 2 of the trucks, for the adjustment in the stopping distance, and Mr I’m going to fly from lane 3 to the slip road at the last minute will see that gap as the opportunity, and (judging by how sensitive my AEB is) the truck leaving a longer stopping distance will bang on the anchors, causing all the traffic behind to do the same, and breaking the convoy. Just a thought 
Bluey Circles:
I guess the initial testing will be a bit farcical, and probably a bus will be following with all the drivers in to take control if it al goes pear shaped.
Somehow this evokes an image of the Ant Hill Mob or the Trumpton fire brigade!
Malky80:
The greed of the rich knows no bounds. Any job they can’t send overseas, they try to automate. Who will be their customers when we’ve all lost our livelihoods?
Imagine if we all shared the benefits of automation - collecting our normal wages for a fraction of the effort?
You can try smashing the machines, or you can fight to create a better society with them. If we smashed everything that improves labour productivity and reduces our toil, we wouldn’t even have the wheel.
eddie snax:
What I been wondering about, is differentials in the gross weight and wear and tear off the trucks. Here is what I’m thinking. Assume all the trucks are 44 tonners, the lead truck is grossing maybe 35 tons, then all have a mixture of different weights, including 44 tons gross, when the lead trucks jams on the anchors, its going to stop a bloody sight sooner than the truck grossing 44 tons. So does the lead truck have to factor this in, and therefore stop slower, what about if the lead truck has 50000kms on it, nicely bedded in, and then the 44 ton truck has 500000kms on it, all its brakes and tyres within legal parameters, but more worn all the same, that’s going to hinder its stopping effiecency. If the lead truck has to be sent all this information, or the each truck has to set its own safe stopping distance, then the convoy isn’t going to end up running that close. Open a up a larger between any 2 of the trucks, for the adjustment in the stopping distance, and Mr I’m going to fly from lane 3 to the slip road at the last minute will see that gap as the opportunity, and (judging by how sensitive my AEB is) the truck leaving a longer stopping distance will bang on the anchors, causing all the traffic behind to do the same, and breaking the convoy. Just a thought
I would guess the instantaneous reaction speeds from the on board computers will be clever enough to adjust the braking throughout the convoy with incredible precision, if for instance Truck 7 (T7) is starting to gain on Truck 6 during an emergency braking scenario, then trucks 1 to 6 will just ease up so as T7 does not hit T6. And as I said earlier in the thread, the shortest braking distance for the convoy will be limited to the lorry with the heaviest load / poorest brakes / poorest adhesion.
Will it all work … LOL … I’m not sure I wouldn’t want to be anywhere near them, 440 tons at 56mph could do a lot of damage.
To answer @burnley comment on tailgating, I would guess all the computers will be taking to each other all of the time, the delay in braking from T1 to T10 will be fractions of a milliesecond. Where as a fully switched on driver will have a reaction time of around 0.75 seconds, which is about 20metres when your on your limiter. Someone on a hands free phone will be closer to 3 seconds (75m)
Bluey Circles:
eddie snax:
What I been wondering about, is differentials in the gross weight and wear and tear off the trucks. Here is what I’m thinking. Assume all the trucks are 44 tonners, the lead truck is grossing maybe 35 tons, then all have a mixture of different weights, including 44 tons gross, when the lead trucks jams on the anchors, its going to stop a bloody sight sooner than the truck grossing 44 tons. So does the lead truck have to factor this in, and therefore stop slower, what about if the lead truck has 50000kms on it, nicely bedded in, and then the 44 ton truck has 500000kms on it, all its brakes and tyres within legal parameters, but more worn all the same, that’s going to hinder its stopping effiecency. If the lead truck has to be sent all this information, or the each truck has to set its own safe stopping distance, then the convoy isn’t going to end up running that close. Open a up a larger between any 2 of the trucks, for the adjustment in the stopping distance, and Mr I’m going to fly from lane 3 to the slip road at the last minute will see that gap as the opportunity, and (judging by how sensitive my AEB is) the truck leaving a longer stopping distance will bang on the anchors, causing all the traffic behind to do the same, and breaking the convoy. Just a thoughtI would guess the instantaneous reaction speeds from the on board computers will be clever enough to adjust the braking throughout the convoy with incredible precision, if for instance Truck 7 (T7) is starting to gain on Truck 6 during an emergency braking scenario, then trucks 1 to 6 will just ease up so as T7 does not hit T6. And as I said earlier in the thread, the shortest braking distance for the convoy will be limited to the lorry with the heaviest load / poorest brakes / poorest adhesion.
Will it all work … LOL … I’m not sure I wouldn’t want to be anywhere near them, 440 tons at 56mph could do a lot of damage.
To answer @burnley comment on tailgating, I would guess all the computers will be taking to each other all of the time, the delay in braking from T1 to T10 will be fractions of a milliesecond. Where as a fully switched on driver will have a reaction time of around 0.75 seconds, which is about 20metres when your on your limiter. Someone on a hands free phone will be closer to 3 seconds (75m)
You are probably correct, and I hadn’t read all the thread, so I’m sorry if I’ve repeated something already discussed.
I just don’t understand, why politician and general public, seem to think, that effectively making automated road trains, is a good idea. I wonder, and this is a kind of out the box blue sky thinking low hanging fruit moment, has it got anything to do with how despised we have become, amongst some of the other road users.
I can see this being phased in by multiple fleets with drivers having the option to become pilot at any given time on the Mway.
A following truck will see the ‘convoy’ option on the dash and once within a set gap of the available pilot the computer will take over to close the gap and slipstream until the pilot needs to pull off or stop to knock one out.
In true do you want to be in my gang stylee some pilots will be better than others.
Que lots of threads in the future by me inviting other truckers to eh be in my gang.
Just guessing.
Dipper_Dave:
I can see this being phased in by multiple fleets with drivers having the option to become pilot at any given time on the Mway.A following truck will see the ‘convoy’ option on the dash and once within a set gap of the available pilot the computer will take over to close the gap and slipstream until the pilot needs to pull off or stop to knock one out.
In true do you want to be in my gang stylee some pilots will be better than others.
Que lots of threads in the future by me inviting other truckers to eh be in my gang.
Just guessing.
That’s roughly how I see this going, you are tipped somewhere and join a convoy down the motorway for a bit. They may limit convoys in size, say 20 lorries. The only procedure that needs working out is joining the convoy so they may well limit convoys to 45mph so you can catch up to one and join the back of the queue.
When you get close to your junction, even if you are in the middle of one, you pull out and then tell the convoy controller somehow that you are leaving so the ones behind you if there are any close the gap and the convoy goes on their merry way.
I can see a lot of fuel savings here, even on our small island. The only issue I see is who is going to be the lead truck, that one has no fuel savings, maybe they pull out after 50 miles and join the back making another truck the lead truck.
This needs a lot of fine points sorting out, the overall concept is sound though.
Malky80:
The greed of the rich knows no bounds. Any job they can’t send overseas, they try to automate. Who will be their customers when we’ve all lost our livelihoods?
As always you have a choice, you are either part of the solution, or the problem.
You can’t stop progress, automation is inevitable in every industry and I see it as a good thing.
See this as an opportunity and try to figure out how you can be part of it, it will get here with or without you and you can either stand on the sidelines and complain about it all or join in.
All of our industries are becoming automated, that trend started hundreds of years ago and is only accelerating.
The stone age didn’t come to an end because we ran out of stones…
wheelnutt:
That’s roughly how I see this going, you are tipped somewhere and join a convoy down the motorway for a bit. They may limit convoys in size, say 20 lorries. The only procedure that needs working out is joining the convoy so they may well limit convoys to 45mph so you can catch up to one and join the back of the queue.When you get close to your junction, even if you are in the middle of one, you pull out and then tell the convoy controller somehow that you are leaving so the ones behind you if there are any close the gap and the convoy goes on their merry way.
I can see a lot of fuel savings here, even on our small island. The only issue I see is who is going to be the lead truck, that one has no fuel savings, maybe they pull out after 50 miles and join the back making another truck the lead truck.
This needs a lot of fine points sorting out, the overall concept is sound though.
I would imagine the lead truck will always have to be fully autonomous, (just in case there is a nutter driving). And i would guess the lead truck would be able to micro-charge anyone who joined the train, so there could be an advantage in being the lead truck. And as suggested the convoys will be open for all to join, although I suspect you would need a great deal of faith in the technology to join in a small car then have a big boy spoon in behind.
I think the whole concept is very exciting and the way forward. What does puzzle me is how this is being implemented; I would have started with a very small squishy car and had it driving the motorways 24-7 testing all the systems and theory’s in all weather and conditions, then if it all goes wrong the likely outcome is just some bent metal. Our daft powers-that-be are going to be doing all the testing in a 440 ton road train … seems a bit risky to me.
Rjan:
Bluey Circles:
I guess the initial testing will be a bit farcical, and probably a bus will be following with all the drivers in to take control if it al goes pear shaped.Somehow this evokes an image of the Ant Hill Mob or the Trumpton fire brigade!
they will hand pick ex SAS from RDC waiting rooms, in emergency situations they will pull alongside the wagon-train, climb up the sides run along the trailer tops jumping from truck to truck (shooting a few injuns in a john wayne style) then absail down into the cab and save the day.
wheelnutt:
Malky80:
The greed of the rich knows no bounds. Any job they can’t send overseas, they try to automate. Who will be their customers when we’ve all lost our livelihoods?As always you have a choice, you are either part of the solution, or the problem.
You can’t stop progress, automation is inevitable in every industry and I see it as a good thing.
See this as an opportunity and try to figure out how you can be part of it, it will get here with or without you and you can either stand on the sidelines and complain about it all or join in.
All of our industries are becoming automated, that trend started hundreds of years ago and is only accelerating.
The stone age didn’t come to an end because we ran out of stones…
It’s also important to remember that the horrors of the Victorian age didn’t end because of the benevolence of the mill owners or trickle-down effects. Working people had to fight together to improve their share of the economy, which only really flowered after 1945 (though only after decades encompassing two bloody big wars, a general strike, and a stock market boom followed by hunger marches).
Partly it was the wars themselves (especially WW2 in which Britain became a command economy) which showed people what the economy could do when the rich weren’t in charge seeking private profit, private property relations were deconstructed, and the inefficiency of competition was swept away. People were better fed under wartime “rationing” than all through the 30s.
A possibly apocryphal (but no less representative) story told by Rupert Murdoch, was that by the 80s the print unions had been so successful in sharing in the benefits of automation that 3 men were each collecting a wage for manning the same emergency stop button on the print machines. The problem was that this setup wasn’t shared across the working class.
The machine smashers, by contrast, achieved very little in hindsight. Societies that do get locked into this sort of backwardness (where the forces of production are held back for the sake of the relations of production), later undergo revolution or suffer conquest.
Who’s buying the stuff being transported in said convoys? All for progress and all that but what is/are the prospects for the unintelligent of the human race? Lethal injection? Just an observation for the future of the human species.
fredthered:
what is/are the prospects for the unintelligent of the human race? Lethal injection? Just an observation for the future of the human species.
Until warehousing is automated we still need the intellectually challenged to do menial jobs until we get to the point that there will just be no work at all for the intellectually challenged. It is up to science and the government in the next 50 years to lessen the birthrate of the intellectually challenged by gene testing and of course keep reducing child benefits and in work benefits that will keep the lower paid from procreating…There is a lot society can do to lessen the numbers of intellectually challenged it all takes a bit of time.
Once all the menial jobs are automated there will be plenty of time and capital to aid natural selection…
So the utopian ■■■■■■■■■ of eugenics will stop those less equal than others from polluting the land will it.
Presumably the new more equal brown shirts will be manning airports, tunnels, ports and entire coastline with machine guns, sorry humane plasma blasters, to stop less equal robotised migrants/asylum seekers/refugees/isis/bogeyman of the day from getting here after all then.
I’d love to know who’s going to buy all these efficiently transported goods when nobody less equal than others is working any more, maybe the more equal grandchildren of great commissars Blair and Cameron will dish our grovelling in the dirt less equal grandchildren serfs out a few pfennigs from their panzer hovermobile as they glide past under the shelter of their more equal halos.
Juddian. Dude you really gotta stop eating cheese before going to bed my man.
Juddian knows the score.
No immediate prospect of redundancy here, agency phoned today, ‘Hi ****, see your sicknote ends on the 17th got a choice of shifts for you on the 18th just to see how it goes, if that goes OK I’ve got as much work as you want’ 
Before you all get giddy about driverless trucks, the trains will be the first and that is limited to the DLR and a new system in Glasgow in a few years.
A nice idea but… nah. Not even in my kids lifetime.
Honked:
Before you all get giddy about driverless trucks, the trains will be the first and that is limited to the DLR and a new system in Glasgow in a few years.A nice idea but… nah. Not even in my kids lifetime.
I think it is to be official announced in the budget later this month - and it will be happening later this year. And NO, they are not testing the technology with very small cars first, they are going to trial it with 10 enormous trucks all linked together… they’re clearly confident!