Wondering if you can help me out with a query. As a little bit of background, I work for a small, fairly young logistics company operating as a member of a pallet network. We currently manage our own warehouse but vehicles & drivers are on a subcontracted day rate basis (ie. not owned or employed directly by us). Our night trunking is currently causing some issues and I’m trying to put together a formal plan for everyone to work from that meets required turnaround/timeslots at the hub and allows compliance with required breaks, etc.
Speaking to the night driver, she has said that she has to show 15 minutes of other work on her tacho at start of shift for vehicle defect checks (whilst at subcontractor yard), and then another 15 minutes of other work at our yard once she has coupled up to the trailer, for defect/trailer checks. She is of the understanding that this is the law as defined by VOSA.
I’ve been working through VOSA publications as I want/need to have a full understanding of everything, but cannot find any reference to this 15 minute rule. Only that the driver needs to do a daily walkaround/defect check and that on multi-trailer operations a defect check should be made on each trailer being used.
I’m wondering if the 15 minute part is a policy/rule implemented by the subcontractor to help them demonstrate / prove that defect checks are being done and they are allowing time for the drivers to do them? Or is the 15 minutes an official rule and I just haven’t found the publication that defines it?
Any thoughts or comments appreciated! I’m sure many of you know the rules better than me
No time is specified in the regulations. It would vary with different types of vehicle and so on. You should show some time but the 15 minutes is just a good practice suggestion by VOSA not law. That is their recommendation for a unit and trailer but if you get your unit in one place and you collect your trailer in another you don’t need 15 minutes in each place.
On tonight’s shift we showed a few minutes when we got the unit followed by a short drive as we went from the car park to the trailer then a couple of minutes more when we coupled. We pulled this trailer last night and it hadn’t been used today so it was really just lights, wheels and tyres.
When we swap trailers shortly it will just be a couple of minutes to check lights and tyres as the Scottish driver will have checked it at the start of his shift, he’s a good bloke and he can be trusted.
That’s good to know, and you’ve pretty much spelt out the rest of my thoughts in your response. Whilst I think their 15 minute policy is a good one for most of their own runs (where a unit + trailer is leaving their yard loaded and straight on it’s way), for our contract having to show 15 minutes for the unit at base, make the ten minute drive to us and then show a further 15 minutes for the trailer seems excessive.
Similar trailer situation with us, she’s pulling the same two deckers each night and they aren’t moved during the day. I’ll speak to the subcontractor tomorrow and see if their policy will allow, or in this scenario can be adjusted to allow their 15 minutes requirement to split across both locations, rather than 15 minutes in each.
found this on the web , hope it helps you out , i put 15 on my card under ‘‘other work’’ and fill out a defect check list sheet , milage , registration and alike …
First Inspection or Daily Walk Round Check
For all drivers, the first job of the day upon arriving at the drivers workstation (his/her truck) is to complete the centrefield of a tachograph chart (if using an Analogue VU); or inserting the drivers card if the vehicle is fitted with a digital unit. After inserting either the chart or card, the VU should be set to ‘Other Work’ mode and a ‘Daily Walk Round Check’ (first use inspection) should be carried out. This activity is undertaken in the best interests of Road Safety and ensures that if carried out properly and no faults are found with the vehicle it should be safe to use on the public highway.
The ‘Daily Walk Round Check’ is a legal requirement and should be carried out at the start of every day and also periodically throughout the working day especially where vehicles are used off road, such as building sites etc. Should the driver be stopped later in the day at a VOSA Checkpoint with this activity carried out correctly, his/her chart will show a line in ‘Other Work’ mode of between 5 and 10 minutes duration. If however, this activity is not evident on the drivers chart, he/she should expect no leniency from the enforcement officer who has stopped him/her, especially if further examination of the other charts - the driver should have in his/her possession - reveals the same ignorance of this mandatory requirement.
It should be noted here, that if any driver has failed consistently in this particular area, it is likely that further investigations by VOSA on those charts retained at the operating center will follow. All charts that are less than 6 months old that show offences on them (including failure to carry out daily walk round checks) may result in prosecution.
As part of every drivers ongoing tachograph training, the correct use of the mode selector switch should form a part of the same. It’s all very well a manager insisting that this aspect of training has been covered, but in light of the Corporate Manslaughter and Homicide Bill having been passed during 2007, if the driver workforce pay lip service to the daily walkround check and one of there number is involved in an accident (and kills someone) due to his/her failure to note (and report) on (say) a defective tyre or braking system, both driver and manager will stand together in a court of law.
The only reason a time is set on this, is through companies and training academies have said it should be, if it was law it would be written into the regulations, it isn’t, so it isn’t a legal requirement.
However if you start work at 6am and get stopped 10 minutes down the road and are found with a defect, you cannot rely on saying you checked it before you set off, as you have then created a false record.
A 5 minute check or a 30 minute check is immaterial as long as you have checked the vehicle has air in the tyres, the lamps work and there is no damage or missing parts, as said a trailer MOT can be carried out in less than 15 minutes, VOSA can find a fault in 2 minutes and often do.
Fill a daily nil defect sheet out, keep it in the lorry, hand in the top copy to the office at debrief or at weekends, that gives a record of checking the vehicle, driver one marks the unit as having low tread for a week, driver two checks no defects for a week, someone isn’t checking the tyres. The tyre fitter checks the tyres and replaces one tyre, you can bet driver one will notice it next week although the checks probably take the same time.
Wondering if you can help me out with a query. As a little bit of background, I work for a small, fairly young logistics company operating as a member of a pallet network. We currently manage our own warehouse but vehicles & drivers are on a subcontracted day rate basis (ie. not owned or employed directly by us). Our night trunking is currently causing some issues and I’m trying to put together a formal plan for everyone to work from that meets required turnaround/timeslots at the hub and allows compliance with required breaks, etc.
Speaking to the night driver, she has said that she has to show 15 minutes of other work on her tacho at start of shift for vehicle defect checks (whilst at subcontractor yard), and then another 15 minutes of other work at our yard once she has coupled up to the trailer, for defect/trailer checks. She is of the understanding that this is the law as defined by VOSA.
I’ve been working through VOSA publications as I want/need to have a full understanding of everything, but cannot find any reference to this 15 minute rule. Only that the driver needs to do a daily walkaround/defect check and that on multi-trailer operations a defect check should be made on each trailer being used.
I’m wondering if the 15 minute part is a policy/rule implemented by the subcontractor to help them demonstrate / prove that defect checks are being done and they are allowing time for the drivers to do them? Or is the 15 minutes an official rule and I just haven’t found the publication that defines it?
Any thoughts or comments appreciated! I’m sure many of you know the rules better than me
Quite simply this. All work must be shown on the tacho. If you get pulled over and there isn’t a period at the start and finish of the shift that shows other work, VOSA will ask you how you did your start of duty checks and how you did your end of duty checks/paperwork. Its to stop people getting away with strapping down loads etc then putting the card in, doing a 15hr day, taking it out then fuelling up/whatever.
tachograph:
I’ve never really understood how you can spend 15 minutes checking a unit and trailer never mind just a unit
Do you never check the load is secure, that the curtain straps are tight before setting off or do you just put your faith in the none-HGV driving yard man or the previous driver? Don’t you do a proper walk round check and check the oil and water? Don’t you fill in a daily check sheet?
tachograph:
I’ve never really understood how you can spend 15 minutes checking a unit and trailer never mind just a unit
Do you never check the load is secure, that the curtain straps are tight before setting off or do you just put your faith in the none-HGV driving yard man or the previous driver? Don’t you do a proper walk round check and check the oil and water? Don’t you fill in a daily check sheet?
I do all of that, well apart from putting my faith in the previous driver anyway
I don’t often pull curtain-siders now but when I did it wouldn’t take 15 minutes to do a thorough check unless I found something wrong.
tachograph:
I’ve never really understood how you can spend 15 minutes checking a unit and trailer never mind just a unit
Do you never check the load is secure, that the curtain straps are tight before setting off or do you just put your faith in the none-HGV driving yard man or the previous driver? Don’t you do a proper walk round check and check the oil and water? Don’t you fill in a daily check sheet?
Also you got wheel nut indicators, tyre treads, washer bottle, any damage, I’ve also got fridge fuel and fuel caps to check, surely all this plus what was stated above is a good 15 mins of work.
tachograph:
I’ve never really understood how you can spend 15 minutes checking a unit and trailer never mind just a unit
Do you never check the load is secure, that the curtain straps are tight before setting off or do you just put your faith in the none-HGV driving yard man or the previous driver? Don’t you do a proper walk round check and check the oil and water? Don’t you fill in a daily check sheet?
Also you got wheel nut indicators, tyre treads, washer bottle, any damage, I’ve also got fridge fuel and fuel caps to check, surely all this plus what was stated above is a good 15 mins of work.
with wheel nut indicators you only need to walk round, it takes about 8 seconds, washer bottle, clutch fluid reservoir is opaque, a glance and it is done, tyres are probably the most difficult thing to check, but a well placed boot or hammer only takes a few minutes.
As always said on these threads it depends on what you are driving, the company you work for and the appearance of the company, if it looks rough, it probably is and may take longer, more for the fact that if it looks rough, VOSA will have a look at you anyway
tachograph:
I’ve never really understood how you can spend 15 minutes checking a unit and trailer never mind just a unit
Do you never check the load is secure, that the curtain straps are tight before setting off or do you just put your faith in the none-HGV driving yard man or the previous driver? Don’t you do a proper walk round check and check the oil and water? Don’t you fill in a daily check sheet?
Also you got wheel nut indicators, tyre treads, washer bottle, any damage, I’ve also got fridge fuel and fuel caps to check, surely all this plus what was stated above is a good 15 mins of work.
with wheel nut indicators you only need to walk round, it takes about 8 seconds, washer bottle, clutch fluid reservoir is opaque, a glance and it is done, tyres are probably the most difficult thing to check, but a well placed boot or hammer only takes a few minutes.
As always said on these threads it depends on what you are driving, the company you work for and the appearance of the company, if it looks rough, it probably is and may take longer, more for the fact that if it looks rough, VOSA will have a look at you anyway
Well i always show 15 mins and all our kit is tidy but i’m more concerned with noting any damage, but a bit of that 15 mins is taken up by slurping on a coffee i must admit.
tachograph:
I’ve never really understood how you can spend 15 minutes checking a unit and trailer never mind just a unit
Do you never check the load is secure, that the curtain straps are tight before setting off or do you just put your faith in the none-HGV driving yard man or the previous driver? Don’t you do a proper walk round check and check the oil and water? Don’t you fill in a daily check sheet?
I only pull rollerbed box trailers loaded with CMP’s so the securing consists of dropping the rollers and checking the stops have been raised from the floor in front of the last CMP, takes less than 10 seconds. Very little point in checking the oil at the start of our shift as we often take the vehicle over either directly from the day driver or within a few minutes so not going to get and accurate level.
No need to be checking expiry dates on O licences or tax discs as I know they are in date for all the vehicles we get. Same goes for trailer MOT discs as we only pull one of two or three trailers and I know they are in date so it’s only a matter of checking it hasn’t fallen off, and they are on the headboard next to the lines so a glance while coupling.
Air and electrical lines are checked as we couple up so it’s just the walk round stuff, lights, tyres, wheels, markers and so on which takes a couple or three minutes. The check sheet is filled in for every shift and is done by one us us while the other drives.
The whole thing from getting the vehicle, putting cards in, making manual entries, driving to the yard from the car park, coupling to the trailer, checking and ready to go takes less than 10 minutes in total.
My lorry’s a rigid so my daily check takes between 5 & 10 minutes most mornings. I dip the oil, change my night fuel cap for the proper one (the swines have been nicking my diesel & taking the fuel caps too @ £41each) I kick the tyres, check the lights & cameras all working, finish my cup of tea then off I go.
I park up at night & spend a few minutes doing my paperwork for the shift, setting night heater for the next morning, change fuel caps & off I go. This is around 10 minutes, when I download the tacho & card which I do at each month end, this goes out to just over 10 minutes so I think I’m doing my bit.
If a f18a fighter pilot can do over 300 individual checks inside and out in less than 5 minutes, surely a hairy arsed lorryist can do his in the same time.
MADBAZ:
If a f18a fighter pilot can do over 300 individual checks inside and out in less than 5 minutes, surely a hairy arsed lorryist can do his in the same time.
MADBAZ:
If a f18a fighter pilot can do over 300 individual checks inside and out in less than 5 minutes, surely a hairy arsed lorryist can do his in the same time.
Just playing devils advocate
Yes, but they don’t have other drivers who damage them and don’t report it to anyone.
