Actually Raymundo predictive radar, or ARPA to give its proper name, is to ships a bit like what automatic gearboxes are to the transport industry - a gizmo designed to cover the fact that MN Officers, like drivers, are becoming less and less competent.
When I did my time - and for hundreds af years before - we had to do an apprenticeship of 4 years actually onboard a ship, starting at the very bottom and working up so that at the end we really knew how a ship worked, before we could be accepted to go to college and start to study for our 2nd Mates ticket then further sea time before we could study for Mates and eventually Masters. (I’m not telling you this Raymundo because you know it, as Master in 1980, but it might be interesting to readers in general.)
Now though, in common with our new belief that paper qualifications rule, anyone who has been to University and studied any ‘marine related’ (Dock operations for instance) subject is automatically excused 3 1/2 years and only have to do 6 months of sea time. When I started there was a saying ‘Sea time makes seamen’ and it was true then and is still true only our ‘betters’ seem to have forgotten it.
Electronics can never make up for a lack of knowledge and ARPA has caused endless accidents through a lack of ability to correctly understand what the electronic are saying just as many so called drivers have got stuck in country lanes following GPS without the experience to see that what it is telling them is wrong and have only been saved from destroying gearboxes because they no longer get to play with them.
I think the ‘look at me, I’m wearing a posh uniform with snot around my cap’ ship’s officer was trying to impress his passengers. ARPA has been around for years but never heard it referred to as predictive radar, spose it does really as long as either ship maintains same course and speed otherwise it goes ■■■■ up until it computes it all again. It’s a good invention as long as it’s used as intended, as an aid to navigation not the prime form. Mark on eyeball is best normally.
Being at sea as a navigator in this age is like some of the truck drivers about, they should not be allowed out in anything bigger than a pedal car. Lowered standards, pieces of paper that show the job can be done in theory but not necessarily in practise.
Hi David,
Just seen your post, must have crossed like ships in the night.
I agree with you 100%, I did my first stint at sea school at Lowestoft for the trawlers, then went as deckie learner doing all the crap jobs until I was thought capable of being a fully fledged ‘deckie’. I applied for a transfer to the Boston Pionair, the first boat I ever sailed on and one of the highest earners (mid '60’s) but was unable to join, just as well as she sailed and was lost at sea that trip with all hands. Brian Moyes was skipper and my eldest lad is named after him. Lost all heart in the job then and so got myself a berth on a wooden ex-sailing barge for Cranfields of Ipswich, Pauls barges as well working around the Thames estuary gradually working up to when I went skipper mesen in '71, one month an four days after my 21st birthday, then blah blah de blah etc till now, decided last November that the standards had dropped to such a low level for boat drivers that you never feel content when you got your head down for a few hours, waypoint navigators, lack of communication skills caused by the lack of them speaking English, far too many east europeans of the vodka swilling variety.
I have renewed my Brit masters ticket for the next five years but dont intend to use it as in '17 I would not be able to sail on ships without doing another college course in the use of electronic charts, been using a pirated one for the last ten years as a secondary form of navigation only (of course) and aint as yet got lost. Last stint in college was in 2001 at Plymouth & Warsash to upgrade and they were both full of young scrotes who knew it all but would crap themselves when the proverbial hit the fan. While playing on the ship simulator for the ARPA ticket I deliberately went full tilt for a loaded gas tanker in the Schelde and my co ‘player’ nearly cried when the course instructor altered the details and brought dense fog down on the river, good game to play that is.
I turned into a grumpy ole git the day our chief (tanzanian) engineer on the Blackbird ex Coe Metcalf’s Hawthorn said he couldn’t get the ships heating to work while in the Baltic in February due to a duff circulating pump, I waited till the idiot went ashore then swapped it with the one for keeping the main engine warm but not used. He went berserk when he found out but I couldn’t care less as we were now getting warm, and I then sacked the gobby git in the next UK port.
Sorry for going on but I get like this when talking all things boaty.
Oh boy, DM (incidentally my initials too ) and Raymundo, nice here in the grumpy old scrotes club, innit?
You are so right, I do so enjoy the incredulous looks I get from fellow (young) drivers in the routiers when they see my ‘satnav’, a printed list of road numbers and towns in 28 point bold fixed to my sunvisor. I do carry an up to date Michelin, just in case, but rarely have to use it.
Nearest I got to an auto box in a wagon was about 1970 something or other when I had a Leyland Beaver on Bunny Hill Motors with a preselect thing like buses. It couldn’t stand the strain of hauling heavy loads around though.
raymundo:
I turned into a grumpy ole git the day our chief (tanzanian) engineer on the Blackbird ex Coe Metcalf’s Hawthorn said he couldn’t get the ships heating to work while in the Baltic in February due to a duff circulating pump, I waited till the idiot went ashore then swapped it with the one for keeping the main engine warm but not used. He went berserk when he found out but I couldn’t care less as we were now getting warm, and I then sacked the gobby git in the next UK port.
Sorry for going on but I get like this when talking all things boaty.
Love that tale Raymundo, and no need for sorry, ships and ‘lurries’ (as my old Grandpa, also a 21 year old Master Mariner in his day) used to pronounce it, get me the same way.
AUTO BOXES
August before last while on leave from my boaty I did a job down to Freidrickshaven to an exhibition, wait and return few days later. had a premium with full auto box and ended up as very very glad I did, thought I twisted my ankle on second day there so suffered for the next week in agony. Said to mesen ‘it’s OK will wear off soon’ but did it hell, it just got worse so in the end I couldn’t have pressed the clutch peddle down even if I had got one, I got the motor an me home OK to discover that I had ruptured my Achilles tendon in my left ankle/leg and was in plaster for 6 weeks, auto boxes I luv em
How to get your own back on a clearing house owner who stitched you up by going skint. (allegedly)
'70’s, was owed a few hundred quid by said individual who then bought an old wooden boat that had not been afloat for a while and when he put it in the water it leaked like a sieve, understandably. He took it out right away (mistake No.1) he then asked me how to cure it (mistake No.2) Caulk it I relied, How? Hemp & white lead. OK, this he did or got someone to do it I dunno but then put it back in the water again… no leaks … result ?
Yes too right but as the planks swelled there was no room for expansion so ripped the copper nails out and sprung about a dozen or so planks, boat slowly sank overnight … Result? yea, I didn’t ever get my money but it cost him a lot more in the end
Ahoy there !
Just a little bit of further information, re: Queen Elizabeth 11.
Whilst on holiday in Malta in November 2008, the Q E 2 was berthed in Valetta Harbour. ( November 18 th. )
She was making her last Call ( if that is the correct Nautical term ) before leaving to make her way to
Palm Jumeirah, Dubai. I understand she was destined to become a floating hotel.
These Postage Stamps were bought at the Harbour to commemorate the visit/leaving of the Q E 2.
To those who are either collectors of Stamps, ( can`t remember the term ) or interested in such Ships,
I know that the “franking” has increased the future value of these stamps.
The Q E 2s gross tonnage was 70,327 tons, and overall length was 294 metres. The top speed was 32.5 knots ( 60.2 km/h ). I hope no-ones seasick after reading this added bit of off-topic information.
raymundo:
I think the ‘look at me, I’m wearing a posh uniform with snot around my cap’ ship’s officer was trying to impress his passengers. ARPA has been around for years but never heard it referred to as predictive radar, spose it does really as long as either ship maintains same course and speed otherwise it goes ■■■■ up until it computes it all again. It’s a good invention as long as it’s used as intended, as an aid to navigation not the prime form. Mark on eyeball is best normally.
Being at sea as a navigator in this age is like some of the truck drivers about, they should not be allowed out in anything bigger than a pedal car. Lowered standards, pieces of paper that show the job can be done in theory but not necessarily in practise.
Blimey we’re talking high ranking officer 1980’s QE2 in this case not the Captain and crew of the Costa Concordia.As you know the QE2 flew the blue ensign which meant the Captain was no idiot and obviously wouldn’t have employed or tolerated any idiots amongst his crew.I think the QE2’s record ( like the other Cunarders ) over it’s lifetime compared to that of the aforementioned Costa Concordia ( or the Titanic ) confirms that.
By the way I think Captain Smith and the Captains of the Andrea Doria and Stockholm would have argued with you about the benefits of MK 1 eyeball v a decent radar system and a crew that know how to use it.
Of course they at Cunard boys are the best in the biss.
BTW what was the name of the ship that buggered it’s propellers because they never took into consideration the squat effect when navigating in shallow water and going too fast ? somewhere near Miami I think it were but don’t quote me on that bit?
Oh yes I remember, it was that rather large ferry … QE2
And radar as good as it is which is very good if used as it was intended, AS AN AID. problem is they have this bit of kit in front of them which should assist them IF USED CORRECTLY, radar don’t pick up icebergs by the way and wasn’t even invented when the Titanic went down. Assuming its tuned correctly it should pick up and display all radar reflective objects providing they are not masked by sea clutter ie waves etc to you and no false echoes that can be caused by various reasons, and correctly tuned and adjusted but you still get ships hurtling around at full tilt cos they have the magic eye thing that can see in the fog, hence most of the accidents. Rules of the road state ‘navigate at a safe speed depending on prevailing conditions’ or words to the same effect, pity they haven’t done so since the bloody thing was invented. Bear in mind I am not getting my info off the web but in practise over too many years doing battle at sea with the high speed, I’m bigger than you, I wear a uniform, I come from East of Frankfurt de Oder type of plonker.
raymundo:
Of course they at Cunard boys are the best in the biss.
BTW what was the name of the ship that buggered it’s propellers because they never took into consideration the squat effect when navigating in shallow water and going too fast ? somewhere near Miami I think it were but don’t quote me on that bit?
Oh yes I remember, it was that rather large ferry … QE2
Still trying to work out what connection the Titanic disaster was to the subject of ARPA, surely that was a classic case of human stupidity (the owner pushing the Captain too hard, the Captain not resisting, as was his right and duty, and the man on the bridge making an easy mistake in steering away rather than going full astern) with or without radar, never mind ARPA.
As far as the Andrea Doria and Stockholm are concerned I can’t remember the rights and wrongs, but wasn’t that the 50s? Would have thought they had radar as well as eyeballs.
raymundo:
Of course they at Cunard boys are the best in the biss.
BTW what was the name of the ship that buggered it’s propellers because they never took into consideration the squat effect when navigating in shallow water and going too fast ? somewhere near Miami I think it were but don’t quote me on that bit?
Oh yes I remember, it was that rather large ferry … QE2
No one is saying that humans are always perfect.But the fact is like most of Cunard’s fleet over the years the QE2 managed to get through a long lifetime and plenty of miles without anything serious happening to it and it takes some ‘ferry’ to run a scheduled transatlantic service on it’s own with more than a few round the world trips too and to keep doing that for almost 40 years.
raymundo:
Of course they at Cunard boys are the best in the biss.
BTW what was the name of the ship that buggered it’s propellers because they never took into consideration the squat effect when navigating in shallow water and going too fast ? somewhere near Miami I think it were but don’t quote me on that bit?
Oh yes I remember, it was that rather large ferry … QE2
Still trying to work out what connection the Titanic disaster was to the subject of ARPA, surely that was a classic case of human stupidity (the owner pushing the Captain too hard, the Captain not resisting, as was his right and duty, and the man on the bridge making an easy mistake in steering away rather than going full astern) with or without radar, never mind ARPA.
As far as the Andrea Doria and Stockholm are concerned I can’t remember the rights and wrongs, but wasn’t that the 50s? Would have thought they had radar as well as eyeballs.
The Andrea Doria and Stockholm collision was mainly a case of primitive radar,confused crews who weren’t sure how to even understand what they had was telling them and then reliance on MK 1 eyeball in fog.
As for the Titanic it was a case of too fast then the failure of MK 1 eyeball and it probably would have made more sense to go full astern and then just hit the berg and cave the front end in.In which case it probably would have made it into New York like the Stockholm did. Having said that the Captain doesn’t even seem to have done steering away right in which case wouldn’t that have been better done by ordering full ahead starboard and stop and full astern port together with port rudder. .
Oh, now it’s ‘most of Cunards fleet geting away with it’
On your mention of the Andrea Doria and Stockholm collision this is from Wikipedia … ‘‘Although greater blame appeared initially to fall on the Italian liner, more recent discoveries have indicated that a misreading of radar on the Swedish ship may have initiated the collision course, leading to errors on both ships’’. (Italian !!! not another Costa ship then?) Mistakes that anyone can make but should not whether they be highly trained, well respected big passi boat officers or lowly rock dodgers.
I really envy your wealth of knowledge from the mindset of Prince Charlie having urges for underage girls with the sanction of the British establishment thru to nuclear fission, brain surgery and everything else but not for being the only person who can copy things off the web.
Like in any collision whether on land or sea it’s not the speed that kills, it’s the stopping. Lower the speed the more chance you have of surviving. That’s why the rule is there … navigate at a speed with due regard to the prevailing conditions etc.
I know this is an old urban myth but a good tale and always makes me laugh,
This is the transcript of a radio conversation of a US naval ship with Canadian authorities off the coast of Newfoundland in October, 1995. Radio conversation released by the Chief of Naval Operations 10-10-95.
Americans: Please divert your course 15 degrees to the North to avoid a Collision.
Canadians: Recommend you divert YOUR course 15 degrees to the South to avoid a collision.
Americans: This is the Captain of a US Navy ship. I say again, divert YOUR course.
Canadians: No. I say again, you divert YOUR course.
Americans: This is the aircraft carrier USS Lincoln, the second largest ship in the United States’ Atlantic fleet. We are accompanied by three destroyers, three cruisers and numerous support vessels. I demand that YOU change your course 15 degrees north, that’s one five degrees north, or countermeasures will be undertaken to ensure the safety of this ship.
Canadians: This is a lighthouse. Your call.[2]
Trev_H:
I know this is an old urban myth but a good tale and always makes me laugh,
This is the transcript of a radio conversation of a US naval ship with Canadian authorities off the coast of Newfoundland in October, 1995. Radio conversation released by the Chief of Naval Operations 10-10-95.
Americans: Please divert your course 15 degrees to the North to avoid a Collision.
Canadians: Recommend you divert YOUR course 15 degrees to the South to avoid a collision.
Americans: This is the Captain of a US Navy ship. I say again, divert YOUR course.
Canadians: No. I say again, you divert YOUR course.
Americans: This is the aircraft carrier USS Lincoln, the second largest ship in the United States’ Atlantic fleet. We are accompanied by three destroyers, three cruisers and numerous support vessels. I demand that YOU change your course 15 degrees north, that’s one five degrees north, or countermeasures will be undertaken to ensure the safety of this ship.
Canadians: This is a lighthouse. Your call.[2]
raymundo:
Hi David,
Just seen your post, must have crossed like ships in the night.
I agree with you 100%, I did my first stint at sea school at Lowestoft for the trawlers, then went as deckie learner doing all the crap jobs until I was thought capable of being a fully fledged ‘deckie’. I applied for a transfer to the Boston Pionair, the first boat I ever sailed on and one of the highest earners (mid '60’s) but was unable to join, just as well as she sailed and was lost at sea that trip with all hands. Brian Moyes was skipper and my eldest lad is named after him. Lost all heart in the job then and so got myself a berth on a wooden ex-sailing barge for Cranfields of Ipswich, Pauls barges as well working around the Thames estuary gradually working up to when I went skipper mesen in '71, one month an four days after my 21st birthday, then blah blah de blah etc till now, decided last November that the standards had dropped to such a low level for boat drivers that you never feel content when you got your head down for a few hours, waypoint navigators, lack of communication skills caused by the lack of them speaking English, far too many east europeans of the vodka swilling variety.
I have renewed my Brit masters ticket for the next five years but dont intend to use it as in '17 I would not be able to sail on ships without doing another college course in the use of electronic charts, been using a pirated one for the last ten years as a secondary form of navigation only (of course) and aint as yet got lost. Last stint in college was in 2001 at Plymouth & Warsash to upgrade and they were both full of young scrotes who knew it all but would crap themselves when the proverbial hit the fan. While playing on the ship simulator for the ARPA ticket I deliberately went full tilt for a loaded gas tanker in the Schelde and my co ‘player’ nearly cried when the course instructor altered the details and brought dense fog down on the river, good game to play that is.
I turned into a grumpy ole git the day our chief (tanzanian) engineer on the Blackbird ex Coe Metcalf’s Hawthorn said he couldn’t get the ships heating to work while in the Baltic in February due to a duff circulating pump, I waited till the idiot went ashore then swapped it with the one for keeping the main engine warm but not used. He went berserk when he found out but I couldn’t care less as we were now getting warm, and I then sacked the gobby git in the next UK port.
Sorry for going on but I get like this when talking all things boaty.
Hi Raymundo
Do you remember the boat Yellowtail that was sunk in Lake Lothing, Oulton Broad?. It was there for years but was eventually refloated and moved round the back of SCA’s when they put the new road through. As much as i have asked locally about what happened to her and why she spent so long there nobody really seems to know
) and Raymundo, nice here in the grumpy old scrotes club, innit? 
)
.