redbob:
Surely though, when there becomes a total lack of drivers then things must change!
I doubt it will hapen in our lifetime. That’s precisely why employers can offer low rates of pay and get all the drivers they need.
I gave up HGV driving for a living in 1978 because the pay was bad, I lived in London and the rates were poor because there were more drivers than jobs. The usual supply and demand rules applied.
Thats what I mean in a way. There needs to be more jobs than drivers and with people retiring and nobody coming into the industry then it must surely come full circle…mustn’t it??
No, it mustn,t! Don’t you people read the papers or learn from experience? The Turks are falling over themselves to get into the European Union and that’s a big country with high unemployment so I imagine they’ll have a few spare truck drivers to keep rates down just like has happened with 2 million Poles coming into the country. There’s even talks going on right now that might allow their unemployed the right to claim benefits in any EU country even though Turkey is not yet a member and hasn’t paid a coin into the pot! Wake up FFS!
This is pretty much on the mark they will just keep expanding the eu to keep wages down on most manual and lower skilled jobs.
It’s probably more a case of they’ll keep expanding the global free market economy until all the developed western economies are in the same state as Greece,or worse,then they’ll just blame it all on the ‘lazy’ greedy western workers.
kr79:
I love this old chesnut about I’d earn more shelf stacking. I had a Saturday job in tesco when I was 16/17 and anyone who has done it will tell you it’s boring repetitive work plus putting up with stroppy customers. I’d imagine wharehouse work is pretty soul destroying too.
Also I think you will find most supermarket workers are only on part time contracts so 10 quid for 20 hours then sweating on getting overtime to make it a living wage.
We don’t live in a police state so why don’t everyone who is so obsessed with been a shyly stacker do it.
We’re not obsessed about the job just dumbfounded to find out their job is paying more than ours! Most supermarket workers who are part time do it because it suits their circumstances. And a great deal of driving work is boring and repetitve with stroppy customers!
If working in a warehouse is so great then the choice is always there for those who think they can hack it for a working lifetime but I certainly wouldn’t moan about anyone who works ‘inside’ earning more than a driver.But no surpprise that it’s often those boring zb local multi drop type driving jobs that are also the lowest paid.
kr79:
From what I can gather my local crap job pays pretty well.
Maybe because there’s not so many drivers looking for it as those looking for the non local jobs.Which is probably why there’s more Lithuanians and Poles hauling freight between here and all over Europe while the Brits ‘might’ be able to get a bit more for driving around London etc all day.
Scarab:
ALDI round here advertise for shelf stackers at £11 an hour day rate. For a 5 on/2 off/ 6 on/2off rota on 9hr shifts. There’s no canteen or anything and I’ve heard it’s a lot harder work than at other stores but there are plenty of van drivers round here on £6.50 an hour and Class 2 on £8.10 for 12 hour days and plenty of stress.
dont mention the stress of driving a truck the morons will be out to tell us its the easiest stress free job man can do!!!
but I certainly wouldn’t moan about anyone who works ‘inside’ earning more than a driver
I don’t think that the original comparison was between working “inside” and driving.
It was comparing shelf stacking with driving, the comparison being that shelf stacking is a totally unqualified occupation requiring no further skills than to recognise that a tin of beans goes with all the other tins of beans…and yet they are deemed more valuable than lots of HGV drivers.
Many inside jobs pay more because the workers have skills which are valuable to the employer but it’s difficult to say that this applies to shelf stacking.
The question is WHY are shelf stackers deemed to be more valuable ?
It can’t just be, as suggested above, that it is simply down to supply and demand, with over 2 million unemployed the laws of supply and demand would apply to supermarket jobs also, but apparently they don’t seem to have the same effect on that industry.(i.e. forcing wages down)
Possibly the influx of euro workers has had more effect on driving jobs, as a need to speak English fluently is more important in a retail environment and so the effect would be diluted.
but I certainly wouldn’t moan about anyone who works ‘inside’ earning more than a driver
I don’t think that the original comparison was between working “inside” and driving.
It was comparing shelf stacking with driving, the comparison being that shelf stacking is a totally unqualified occupation requiring no further skills than to recognise that a tin of beans goes with all the other tins of beans…and yet they are deemed more valuable than lots of HGV drivers.
Many inside jobs pay more because the workers have skills which are valuable to the employer but it’s difficult to say that this applies to shelf stacking.
The question is WHY are shelf stackers deemed to be more valuable ?
It can’t just be, as suggested above, that it is simply down to supply and demand, with over 2 million unemployed the laws of supply and demand would apply to supermarket jobs also, but apparently they don’t seem to have the same effect on that industry.(i.e. forcing wages down)
Possibly the influx of euro workers has had more effect on driving jobs, as a need to speak English fluently is more important in a retail environment and so the effect would be diluted.
Shelf stacking or being the bloke who spends most of his working life putting the windscreens in or hanging the doors on the cars or being a ‘skilled’ welder or machine operator etc etc it’s all the same thing at the end of the day if you’d rather be out on the road driving a truck. Although admittedly working ‘inside’ has moved on a ‘bit’ since the 1970’s but then or now a ‘driver’ would be climbing the walls at the end of a week let alone 20 + years of it.
I agree that most drivers couldn’t/wouldn’t handle working in a shop or factory but the point I was trying to make is that there must be some reson besides supply and demand for the low wages currently on offer.
The same rules re supply etc apply equally to all unskilled workers but it appears that drivers are especially being affected.
del949:
I agree that most drivers couldn’t/wouldn’t handle working in a shop or factory but the point I was trying to make is that there must be some reson besides supply and demand for the low wages currently on offer.
The same rules re supply etc apply equally to all unskilled workers but it appears that drivers are especially being affected.
On top of that issue you’ve then got to factor in the capacity within the industry relative to demand for it’s services and crippling rates of fuel taxation etc which are all part of government policy of shifting freight from road to rail.So you’ve got the worst of all worlds toxic combination of a job which lots of people want to do,especially those of us who couldn’t handle a job inside,loads of operators looking for work in an environment where there’s less customers than capacity,and in addition to all that fuel costs subject to government taxation of more than 100 % of the value of the fuel.
The fact is rail freight,and therefore the a job of freight train driver,is also subject to similar issues of it being seen as an attractive job to the working population in general,so supply of workers wanting the job is also high in a similar way as the road transport industry.However it’s a much more difficult job to get into because in addition to those high levels of supply of applicants,the selection process and ongoing training requirements seem to be far more rigorous.However even driving a train doesn’t have as much freedom attatched to it as the best types of long distance truck driving jobs do.
Therefore the occupation of truck driver seems to be caught in the perfect storm of lots of applicants for a job that’s often seen as even more atractive to that of even train driving,massive fuel taxation on it’s profit margins and government policies that limit it’s efficiency to provide rail with a competitive advantage and less demand for the service it provides than available capacity.On top of all that there’s then the issue of the west european road transport industry and it’s employers being more likely to take advantage of the east european and possibly soon to be Asian/Turkish labour market and haulage industry capacity than rail freight is.All of which probably explains why train drivers get paid more than truck drivers ‘or’ warehouse/factory workers do.
It still doesn’t explain why shelf stackers are worth more.
With over 2 million unemployed you would expect that totally unskilled jobs such as those would all be on minmum wage.
But all the major supermarkets appear to be paying over the odds, certainly Tesco pay above NMW.
I can’t even claim that it is because the unions have negotiated good deals because as far as I know Aldi have nothing to do with unions.
So, regardless of all the answers you give , i am still at a loss to explain Aldi = £10+ per hour and some driving jobs = £7.
If Aldi had there own drivers I wonder what rate they wouldbe on?
Turkey in the EEC? I seriously doubt it in the near or even not so near future.
The last thing the EU needs is another basket case.
del949:
It still doesn’t explain why shelf stackers are worth more.
With over 2 million unemployed you would expect that totally unskilled jobs such as those would all be on minmum wage.
But all the major supermarkets appear to be paying over the odds, certainly Tesco pay above NMW.
I can’t even claim that it is because the unions have negotiated good deals because as far as I know Aldi have nothing to do with unions.
So, regardless of all the answers you give , i am still at a loss to explain Aldi = £10+ per hour and some driving jobs = £7.
If Aldi had there own drivers I wonder what rate they wouldbe on?
Turkey in the EEC? I seriously doubt it in the near or even not so near future.
The last thing the EU needs is another basket case.
It seems simple enough to me.If it was a case of being at the job centre subject to JSA regs and given two job choices to go for by the ‘advisor’ one driving the truck for £7 per hour or one working in the warehouse for £10 per hour I’m taking the driving job thanks and you can take the warehouse job.
As I said I think in this discussion can be found all of those issues related to that Ford factory workers v drivers dispute for driving jobs vacancies.By paying drivers more you’d just make those issues worse which I ‘think’ might have been the root cause in that case .I think it was a case of line factory workers getting paid ‘less’ than the class 1 drivers were so no surprise that the whole thing ended up in a dispute about who wanted to do what and who got the driving jobs as vacancies came up.
redbob:
Surely though, when there becomes a total lack of drivers then things must change!
I doubt it will hapen in our lifetime. That’s precisely why employers can offer low rates of pay and get all the drivers they need.
I gave up HGV driving for a living in 1978 because the pay was bad, I lived in London and the rates were poor because there were more drivers than jobs. The usual supply and demand rules applied.
No idea what you were doing wrong mate because according to many older drivers pay was apparently brilliant in the 70’s 80’s…
redbob:
Surely though, when there becomes a total lack of drivers then things must change!
I doubt it will hapen in our lifetime. That’s precisely why employers can offer low rates of pay and get all the drivers they need.
I gave up HGV driving for a living in 1978 because the pay was bad, I lived in London and the rates were poor because there were more drivers than jobs. The usual supply and demand rules applied.
No idea what you were doing wrong mate because according to many older drivers pay was apparently brilliant in the 70’s 80’s…
I was working for BRS (British Road Services) delivering chocolate for Cadburys.
del949:
It still doesn’t explain why shelf stackers are worth more.
With over 2 million unemployed you would expect that totally unskilled jobs such as those would all be on minmum wage.
But all the major supermarkets appear to be paying over the odds, certainly Tesco pay above NMW.
I can’t even claim that it is because the unions have negotiated good deals because as far as I know Aldi have nothing to do with unions.
So, regardless of all the answers you give , i am still at a loss to explain Aldi = £10+ per hour and some driving jobs = £7.
If Aldi had there own drivers I wonder what rate they wouldbe on?
Turkey in the EEC? I seriously doubt it in the near or even not so near future.
The last thing the EU needs is another basket case.
They are known as store assistants and are required to carry out all duties within the store, including checkout operator. Presumably if you pay the highest rate you get more flexibility within your workforce.
redbob:
Surely though, when there becomes a total lack of drivers then things must change!
I doubt it will hapen in our lifetime. That’s precisely why employers can offer low rates of pay and get all the drivers they need.
I gave up HGV driving for a living in 1978 because the pay was bad, I lived in London and the rates were poor because there were more drivers than jobs. The usual supply and demand rules applied.
No idea what you were doing wrong mate because according to many older drivers pay was apparently brilliant in the 70’s 80’s…
I was working for BRS (British Road Services) delivering chocolate for Cadburys.
‘Some’ ‘older’ drivers are actually younger than me and have also said that it was easy to just walk into a job in the 1980’s,during a ‘recesssion’,that made this one,so far,look like a boom which started in the late 1970’s.
redbob:
Surely though, when there becomes a total lack of drivers then things must change!
I doubt it will hapen in our lifetime. That’s precisely why employers can offer low rates of pay and get all the drivers they need.
I gave up HGV driving for a living in 1978 because the pay was bad, I lived in London and the rates were poor because there were more drivers than jobs. The usual supply and demand rules applied.
No idea what you were doing wrong mate because according to many older drivers pay was apparently brilliant in the 70’s 80’s…
I was working for BRS (British Road Services) delivering chocolate for Cadburys.
‘Some’ ‘older’ drivers are actually younger than me and have also said that it was easy to just walk into a job in the 1980’s,during a ‘recesssion’,that made this one,so far,look like a boom which started in the late 1970’s.
That is true but it depended where you lived, I was near Surrey Docks but was not connected with the docks and therefore would have been well down the pecking order. Because of this I ceased to be an HGV driver and worked in other aspects of driving. Since then I have only done casual driving.
dont mention the stress of driving a truck the morons will be out to tell us its the easiest stress free job man can do!!!
labour market and haulage industry capacity than rail freight is.All of which probably explains why train drivers get paid more than truck drivers ‘or’ warehouse/factory workers do. 
.I think it was a case of line factory workers getting paid ‘less’ 
