Scania V8s, the modern urban myth?

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS OLD TIME LORRIES, COMPANIES AND DRIVERS (INTERACT
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[zb]
anorak:

Carryfast:
But there’s no way that,with the battering that the UK economy had suffered during WW2,that the British truck manufacturers had any chance of doing that in the post war years.

I have never understood this argument. The British manufacturers were at the head of Europe in 1945, in terms of products. If you read Eric-Björn Lindh’s book about Scania Vabis, they desperately needed the engineering assistance that they got from Leyland. The British factories took less of a pounding than those of the Germans, so less money and time needed to be wasted to progress forward from the War. However, in the event, the Germans and Scandinavians effortlessly eased ahead, with superior products and increased sales across Europe. Why?

Evening all, forgive me [ZB], I`m a little tired, following a very long (19hour) day, so my response will be less detailed.

In the immediate “largesse” of post WW11 Great Britain, much information on engine design, and potential, was freely given to “our friends”, by the then Leyland Management,at the specific behest of HM Government, of a more socialistic persuasion. (I think I have documented this fully elsewhere, but am happy to do so again), particularly as so little seems to be known about this period. Also please remember the close engineering ties between Mack, (then an “ailing” US East Coast manufacturer), and Scania Vabis, which resulted in the R Series.

Way back in 1933,the profile adopted by Scania as a manufacturer was to export. Recognising that their home market was so small in overall volume terms. From the mid 30s, all production was centred around LHD chassis, despite their home market being RHD. (The personalities, and actual dates I have documented previously).

Brasil, and the Netherlands had wholly owned subsidiaries by the mid 60s. The whole outlook of Scania was to export, forward thinking and correct, We had the “Empire”, they did not, so they chose different markets to exploit.

Regarding the success of the German manufacturers, please remember that of the total heavy truck production of Mercedes, in the period 1950/55, 85% was utilised by “occupying” US Forces. Little to do with engineering excellence…much to do with political expedience! Oh, yes, our AEC, via Thornycroft had expected some of this volume,…but we “had to keep the commies out” …Friends, well what do you think?

I`m away to my bed, another big day tommorow!! Cheerio for now.

142

[zb]
anorak:

Carryfast:
But there’s no way that,with the battering that the UK economy had suffered during WW2,that the British truck manufacturers had any chance of doing that in the post war years.

I have never understood this argument. The British manufacturers were at the head of Europe in 1945, in terms of products. If you read Eric-Björn Lindh’s book about Scania Vabis, they desperately needed the engineering assistance that they got from Leyland. The British factories took less of a pounding than those of the Germans, so less money and time needed to be wasted to progress forward from the War. However, in the event, the Germans and Scandinavians effortlessly eased ahead, with superior products and increased sales across Europe. Why?

Investment and customer demand in their home markets.Like Switzerland Sweden only made money out of WW2 not lost any.British factories took less pounding than the Germans but the Germans had no money,or in fact much at all,after the war,to re build what was left of theirs after the Fortresses and Lancasters etc had finished flattening them.That money mostly came from Britain and through US investments which also had to be paid back by Britain to re build German industry.So it was new factories and tooling and development funds for German industry at the expense of that money for British industry because the same money couldn’t be used for both places at the same time. :bulb:

Fast forward to the 1970’s and that money was still in the process of being paid off by us.The fact is Britain’s truck manufacturing industry and the products which it produced and developed were a direct reflection of the amount of inward investment in British industry in general at the time and since the end of WW2,the state of the British economy,and the demands of the buyers in it’s domestic market.Which explains why the Scania V8 was built and developed in Sweden not here and it’s why the Mercedes V8 was built and developed in Germany not here.The fact that while the Swedes were developing the Scania V8 and the Germans hadn’t yet turbocharged their V8,while the Brits were putting the Rolls CV12 into the Commander,shows that the issue had nothing whatsoever to do with any shortcomings in British engineering v the Swedes or the Germans.It was all about investment,the economy and what the customers in the British market were calling for.

Those Brits running out to the Middle East amongst a few others being the exceptions that proved the rule but I’d doubt that Scania had just based it’s product development programme on that demand or in fact any demand in the British market.That was just a bonus. :bulb:

However as I’ve said with a bit more help from the British government in the form of (massive fuel price cuts) and with a bit (lot) more US truck friendly customer demand in the domestic market that situation probably still could have been turned around with 8V92 and 3408 powered trucks amongst 6 cylinder ■■■■■■■ ones.

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As good as the V8 is, Scania sells more in line 6s, always has done too, for every V8 you could find 10 six pots. In recent years they have become a high end fleet truck, but back in the 143 days, they were a top of the range premium lorry.

Bringing the V12 Roller into the equation is about as much use as putting mudflaps on a tortoise :unamused:

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newmercman:
As good as the V8 is, Scania sells more in line 6s, always has done too, for every V8 you could find 10 six pots. In recent years they have become a high end fleet truck, but back in the 143 days, they were a top of the range premium lorry.

Bringing the V12 Roller into the equation is about as much use as putting mudflaps on a tortoise :unamused:

I only made the example of the CV12 as put into the Commander to show what British engineering could do at an equivalent point in time depending on the money being there and the customer ordering the right product for the job.In that case the government did as part of a military contract what the private sector needed to be doing in the case of civilian ones.There’s no way that the British private sector,had the type of cash to throw around,that it would have took to do the job,of developing the type of civilian products,that would have been able to outperform what the foreign competition was doing.Basically because we’d given every last pound we had to the Germans which they then used to get ahead and laugh at us instead of paying it all back :bulb: .

Hence the need for a bit of help from across the Atlantic in the form of it’s cheaper,already developed,competitive products at the time and from the government in the form of a totally different road fuel pricing policy also being applied to Europe as part of a better trade environment which would have been fairer to the British.Which hopefully ‘might’ have given the British domestic market the kick start which it needed to wake it up.Without any of that there was never going to be any competitive,let alone world beating,civilian products coming from here.Unlike in the form of that Scammell built on a military budget while the government forgot the fact that that military budget was totally dependent on the country’s cash starved private sector industries. :unamused:

But yes the 6 cylinder products were an important part of the mix which is exactly what I said in this case which ‘would have been’ ■■■■■■■ as the most practical competitive choice in that sector.However the subject of ‘this’ topic is the Scania V8 and logically the question as to wether there were other options which would have been,at least reasonably,competitive with it :question: .No surprise that there were no British products which came close.No surprise either that there was one German one,an Italian one,and two American ones and whatever the arguments about the 6 cylinder alternatives being important there are plenty of examples here to show that there was a demand for those V8 options from at least the mid 1970’s on including in your own case. :bulb: It’s just a shame that the British didn’t get the chance to maybe compete in that market,just like in the 6 cylinder one,with up to date US designed products,with competitive power outputs which were available during the 1970’s,for those reasons which I’ve listed.

As for the idea of the big V8 powered option being increasingly seen as a fleet spec wagon maybe that’s because there is probably a continuing financial case for the type of combination of reliablity and performance which seems to have been shown over the years to result from using that type of design compared to the 6 cylinder one.Which is why all these years later the V8 Scania motor is still here. :bulb:

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the v8 is as nmm says under 10% of scanias production,but couse of modulthinking it,s not to expencive to keep them in production,and don,t think scania can give them up,couse thats the end of the brand,cheers benkku

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A little bit of V8 power from yesterday races. youtube.com/watch?v=WLw_lhBpkWU&feature=plcp

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Just an observation Carryfast, you say that Mercedes hadn’t got around to turbocharging the V8, actually the OM400 series engines were developed with turbocharged versions from day 1, 1964 I believe. Mercedes, for goodness knows why, wouldn’t fit turbochargers in road vehicles, only using them in plant and marine applications. Out of interest the OM402A, that’s the turbo version of the 1626 motor was 340bhp, and the OM403A, the V10 turbo, was 400bhp. If they had made a 1640 with that engine in the early 70s, the Scania V8 would have had some competition in the trucking ■■■■ stakes.

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steviev8:
and another! if any one has any info on the old girl it would be much appreciated we bought her in the livery of a s taylor of burton on trent but also know it was run by wm mark young of uttoxeter…the reg is b847 ynk

it must of gone round clock a couple of times

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acd1202:
Just an observation Carryfast, you say that Mercedes hadn’t got around to turbocharging the V8, actually the OM400 series engines were developed with turbocharged versions from day 1, 1964 I believe. Mercedes, for goodness knows why, wouldn’t fit turbochargers in road vehicles, only using them in plant and marine applications. Out of interest the OM402A, that’s the turbo version of the 1626 motor was 340bhp, and the OM403A, the V10 turbo, was 400bhp. If they had made a 1640 with that engine in the early 70s, the Scania V8 would have had some competition in the trucking ■■■■ stakes.

Sometimes ze Germans lose the plot and go off at a tangent that no can understand.Like when they decided to invade Russia. :open_mouth: :laughing:

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and back to why scania is my love

i was 12 years old and they where building a new school on the ireland,that time in 71 it was not wery common whit artics wisiting the isle. I was sitting near the church by the road as usual when a 140 comes to ,the driver ask,s the way and i tell him he have got to far.he is not very pleaced whit my answer so this is the memory from the moment he rice the clutch ,and this is when i started to love not only scania,s but specallyV8,hope the pic feel mooving,but the WOICE i can,t draw,cheers benkku :smiley: :smiley: :smiley: :smiley:

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bma.finland:
and back to why scania is my love

i was 12 years old and they where building a new school on the ireland,that time in 71 it was not wery common whit artics wisiting the isle. I was sitting near the church by the road as usual when a 140 comes to ,the driver ask,s the way and i tell him he have got to far.he is not very pleaced whit my answer so this is the memory from the moment he rice the clutch ,and this is when i started to love not only scania,s but specallyV8,hope the pic feel mooving,but the WOICE i can,t draw,cheers benkku :smiley: :smiley: :smiley: :smiley:

bma, your posts get better, as do your drawings!! For me the “catalyst” was my Uncle manouvering a WW11 Diamond T in the yard!! That must have been about 1946!!

Funny how one second, turns you on to a lifetime interest. Cheerio for now. (and keep those drawings coming)!!!

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Post deleted, wrong section, oops!

Pete.

153

JohnyRose63:

Is this the centurion that once belonged to R.Lambert transport of huddersfield?

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i know it is not a V8

but it has to do whitv why a get loving scania,s. this is from my home yard 1965 when the first elementhouse in our isle,our house(where i live whit my family since my dad died 1993 ,when my first born sun is born)arrives ,the thing was a sleepercab L76Super ,and anloading whit manpower,the cargo roaped and sheated,cheers benkku

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What a Beast :sunglasses:

IMG_0015.jpg

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adr:
What a Beast :sunglasses:

Hi Chris,
At last weekends retro show a mate and I were discussing YMIR,anyone know what happened to her? She can’t have been scrapped? I hope :laughing:
Regards Andrew.

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I’m fairly sure I read on here somewhere this year that YMIR was scrapped [or came to some sad end]. I think I recall that someone kept the nameplate and bumper.
Neil.

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Found the thread here…

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mechanic77:
I’m fairly sure I read on here somewhere this year that YMIR was scrapped [or came to some sad end]. I think I recall that someone kept the nameplate and bumper.
Neil.

Hi Neil,
Oh Christ,I hope that’s wrong :open_mouth: bob beech and I were talking about it last weekend,I thought bob told me it had been saved :question: though your theory sounds about right tbh.
Regards Andrew.

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Click on the link above your post Andrew.