ERF-NGC-European:
Nonetheless, I’d love to know if any 4x2 general haulage Crusader was ever fitted - or indeed COULD be fitted - with the slightly bigger 305 Eagle 3 lump.
Ro
The Eagle was all the same size motor from 220 up to 400.Should be able to put a TX 400 in a 4 x 2 Crusader in theory at least if the turbo, intercooler and their plumbing fits.
How did the later 265 differ from the 280, I wonder? Just a bit torquier and more refined, no doubt. And of course the 265 was turbo-ed, wasn’t it.
My only experience with the RR 265, incidentally, was in B-series ERFs. The 265s were, as I remember them, a bit noisy and smelly but they were old by then. What I do remember is that they matched the Fuller RTO 9509 'boxes beautifully.
I briefly drove a RR 365 in a Strato - not a brilliant puller.
As for the TX: the only Perkins/Rolls I ever drove was an ERF EC fitted for LNG operated by GIST from Hemel Hempsted. It performed adequately around London; and seemed to match the Eaton Twin-splitter well enough - not a lively performance though!
ERF-NGC-European:
And here’s another queer turn-up for the books!
I always thought that the earlier 4x2 domestic Crusaders had RR 220s with Fuller 10sp 'boxes.
According to the Commercial Motor mag 01/10/71, BRS (BRSL) Crusaders had the RR 265 with an RTO 909A 'box. Can anyone elaborate on that little bombshell?
My experience of the 265 was the late 70’s/early 80’s Li range in the S85.Refined would be an accurate description and more than enough power in a 6 wheeler.A second to none motor in the day with options at least up to ‘320’ ( 311 ) net installed by that point at least from 1979 so not long after the Crusader road test example.
By that point the T45 was introduced resulting in the TL12 v RR ‘discussion’ ‘elsewhere’.
When I posted the photo of Mitchell & Robertson’s Scammell Crusader RR220 I drove back in the early to mid 70’s I didn’t make my feelings known for the lorry. Once the newness had worn off I was left with an imposing vehicle that garnered much attention from other drivers. Little did they know the engine wouldn’t pull the skin of the proverbial rice pudding and the driving position especially the accelerator caused pain that is still felt by my body to this day. Once on a motorway or dual carriageway I had to jamb a piece of wood between the bottom of the dash and the accelerator to take the strain off my body. I complained and complained to the point where John Mitchell, normally a very placid guy, lost his rag and threatened to put me back on rigids. However, after he thought about it he decided to install a sprung Bostram seat which was shoehorned into place and it did marginally improve the driving experience.
I had that Crusader for almost three years but relief finally arrive in the shape of a Mercedes 1924. It was like going from a farm tractor to a saloon car. It’s impossible to describe the relief I felt as soon as I climbed into my new lorry.
I’ve attached some photos from the web. The Snaylam Crusader is fresh out of the paintshop whilst the wreck in Hull docks needs a bit more than a lick of paint to get her back on the road.
^^^^Shame about the driving position, Sandway. I once sat in a Crusader at Gaydon, specifically to compare the driving position with the similarly cabbed ERF NGC. It compared very well in a motionless vehicle. The steering wheel fell comfortably to hand and the pedals felt comfortable. Of course, I didn’t have to hold the throttle down for 10 hours; and there appears to be the rub! It might also be something to do with the stature of the driver or simply the placing of the pedal - who knows? It was certainly comfortable enough in the ERF, which I did drive.
My Crusader,mentioned above,had a Rolls 265 engine with a Fuller 9509 gearbox.This was marked as a normal H pattern with a crawler in low range.In fact in high range there was a gear which could be selected possibly to save a drop into low range.It had a sleeper cab and, being a young chap,I was suitably impressed not least with the number of ERFs and Atki Borderers with 180 Gardners rumbling around at the time.
Gidders:
My Crusader,mentioned above,had a Rolls 265 engine with a Fuller 9509 gearbox.This was marked as a normal H pattern with a crawler in low range.In fact in high range there was a gear which could be selected possibly to save a drop into low range.It had a sleeper cab and, being a young chap,I was suitably impressed not least with the number of ERFs and Atki Borderers with 180 Gardners rumbling around at the time.
That would be the RT 9509. I think the 280-powered Crusaders had the overdrive version - the RTO 9509. Your set-up would have done for me nicely!
ERF-NGC-European:
^^^^Shame about the driving position, Sandway. I once sat in a Crusader at Gaydon, specifically to compare the driving position with the similarly cabbed ERF NGC. It compared very well in a motionless vehicle. The steering wheel fell comfortably to hand and the pedals felt comfortable. Of course, I didn’t have to hold the throttle down for 10 hours; and there appears to be the rub! It might also be something to do with the stature of the driver or simply the placing of the pedal - who knows? It was certainly comfortable enough in the ERF, which I did drive.
Ro
I have spoken to other drivers who drove Crusaders who said the position and angle of the accelerator was fine for them. I do believe it was my odd shape and perhaps long legs that was the problem.
Gidders:
My Crusader,mentioned above,had a Rolls 265 engine with a Fuller 9509 gearbox.This was marked as a normal H pattern with a crawler in low range.In fact in high range there was a gear which could be selected possibly to save a drop into low range.It had a sleeper cab and, being a young chap,I was suitably impressed not least with the number of ERFs and Atki Borderers with 180 Gardners rumbling around at the time.
That would be the RT 9509. I think the 280-powered Crusaders had the overdrive version - the RTO 9509. Your set-up would have done for me nicely!
ERF-NGC-European:
^^^^Shame about the driving position, Sandway. I once sat in a Crusader at Gaydon, specifically to compare the driving position with the similarly cabbed ERF NGC. It compared very well in a motionless vehicle. The steering wheel fell comfortably to hand and the pedals felt comfortable. Of course, I didn’t have to hold the throttle down for 10 hours; and there appears to be the rub! It might also be something to do with the stature of the driver or simply the placing of the pedal - who knows? It was certainly comfortable enough in the ERF, which I did drive.
Ro
I have spoken to other drivers who drove Crusaders who said the position and angle of the accelerator was fine for them. I do believe it was my odd shape and perhaps long legs that was the problem.
I do know that the Gardner in the B series was a nightmare of massive resistance and at an awful angle at full travel on motorways it was like torture on the ankle joint.
But no such issues with the RR powered Foden.Would the Crusader have been much if any different to the Foden in that regard.
ERF-NGC-European:
^^^^Shame about the driving position, Sandway. I once sat in a Crusader at Gaydon, specifically to compare the driving position with the similarly cabbed ERF NGC. It compared very well in a motionless vehicle. The steering wheel fell comfortably to hand and the pedals felt comfortable. Of course, I didn’t have to hold the throttle down for 10 hours; and there appears to be the rub! It might also be something to do with the stature of the driver or simply the placing of the pedal - who knows? It was certainly comfortable enough in the ERF, which I did drive.
Ro
I have spoken to other drivers who drove Crusaders who said the position and angle of the accelerator was fine for them. I do believe it was my odd shape and perhaps long legs that was the problem.
I’ve driven one which required a large effort to get the last mm of travel out of it. No problem round town but, on the motorway, an absolute bstd- easier to ride a bicycle, than hold your foot against a constant load.
ERF-NGC-European:
^^^^Shame about the driving position, Sandway. I once sat in a Crusader at Gaydon, specifically to compare the driving position with the similarly cabbed ERF NGC. It compared very well in a motionless vehicle. The steering wheel fell comfortably to hand and the pedals felt comfortable. Of course, I didn’t have to hold the throttle down for 10 hours; and there appears to be the rub! It might also be something to do with the stature of the driver or simply the placing of the pedal - who knows? It was certainly comfortable enough in the ERF, which I did drive.
Ro
I have spoken to other drivers who drove Crusaders who said the position and angle of the accelerator was fine for them. I do believe it was my odd shape and perhaps long legs that was the problem.
I’ve driven one which required a large effort to get the last mm of travel out of it. No problem round town but, on the motorway, an absolute bstd- easier to ride a bicycle, than hold your foot against a constant load.
As I remember it, a lot of '70s lorries were like that. I was always twisting my back to get a better purchase on the ‘pedal to the meddle’ technique. Oh, and if you were daft enough to ride a bike on today’s roads you’d get mown down by the first Crusader that came along
No mention of 4x2s with more than 290BHP. The 287bhp rating on the 6x4 page must be the installed output of the RR305. 318 has to be Detroit. The twin stack versions may be DD.
Nice work. Yes, we can ‘park’ the Detroit for now.
Well before we ‘park’ the Detroit; I’ve thought about your comment, Anorak, about the twin stacks possibly denoting Detroit and looked through all the pics that I have. You may well be right. I’ll keep an eye on this one.
ERF-NGC-European:
Well before we ‘park’ the Detroit; I’ve thought about your comment, Anorak, about the twin stacks possibly denoting Detroit and looked through all the pics that I have. You may well be right. I’ll keep an eye on this one.
Twin stacks makes sense for a V engine vice versa for an inline ?.
DEANB:
Only ever seen those air intakes on 6x4 chassis. The two 4 wheelers you posted were converted from 6x4 chassis.
I know some 6x4 chassis had them up the back of the cab,so i wonder if they were only fitted on the military ones and export models ■■
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I agree with all that. What I am now trying to ascertain is whether it was possible in theory to order (or configure) a 4x2 sleeper with roof air-intake pipes instead of the upright at the back. I can’t see any reason why not.
“Why you would you want to do that?” is the same question you’d have to ask the army. Presumably, to obviate the problem of dust ingress in desert / dust climes. The thing that perplexes me is that I think the military also operated a small number of 4x2 Crusaders so why didn’t they run the pipes over the roofs of these - or did they and we haven’t yet worked that out?
ERF-NGC-European:
The thing that perplexes me is that I think the military also operated a small number of 4x2 Crusaders so why didn’t they run the pipes over the roofs of these - or did they and we haven’t yet worked that out?
Very difficult to find any photos of any military 4 x 2 versions to find out.
ERF-NGC-European:
The thing that perplexes me is that I think the military also operated a small number of 4x2 Crusaders so why didn’t they run the pipes over the roofs of these - or did they and we haven’t yet worked that out?
Very difficult to find any photos of any military 4 x 2 versions to find out.
That’s true, as I’ve found out. It’s also difficult to find pics of military Crusaders in action for the obvious reason that restrictions on photography in theatres of war are very strict.
I will say this for the 6x4s: they do stand well! And the brown-to-maroon spectrum seems to suit 'em well too!