Saviem's fan club (Part 1)

[fergie47]

Mix of trucks, but they all have people with them…

Gotta go…
Mrs F is just back, looking stunning in her new hair do I must say…I MUST say of course, because if I didnt…big trouble

[fergie47]

Saviem:
Evening all,
WOW!
Where does one start with this memory overload?..

Chez Jo at Hautvilliers,

Cheerio for now.

Here you go John…pop down memory lane…

Herring / tomato/ salad starter…Steak 'n chips… brie… cream caramel, coffee, and maybe a cognac ? place hasn’t changed a bit…and don’t forget that long walk across that huge lorry park…

[robert1952]

Reminded me a bit of the convivial one at Comblanchien, pictured here in 2002. Robert

[robert1952]

[roolechat]

Fergie47:
Not sure whether this is an add for Saviem…or BISS. If it is for Saviem, do you recognize the demonstrator driver John
(or anyone else of course) In the mid seventies I had a 3 day demo Saviem from a company in Dorset ( can’t remember the name) the sales / demo man was a nice guy, but he had to be with the wagon all the time, not sure whether that was company, or Saviem policy, or maybe I looked a bit dodgy…anyway, I loved the lorry, especially the column gear chance, came very close to buying it ( 8000/9000k I think ) but in the end bough the second hand F89, for considerably less money…

The Hants/ Dorset agent was H.King & Sons(Wimborne) Ltd & yes they did seem to “lack the experience” of the established dealers.
IIRC they took on the Roman franchise as well

[fergie47]

roolechat:

Fergie47:
Not sure whether this is an add for Saviem…or BISS. If it is for Saviem, do you recognize the demonstrator driver John
(or anyone else of course) In the mid seventies I had a 3 day demo Saviem from a company in Dorset ( can’t remember the name) the sales / demo man was a nice guy, but he had to be with the wagon all the time, not sure whether that was company, or Saviem policy, or maybe I looked a bit dodgy…anyway, I loved the lorry, especially the column gear chance, came very close to buying it ( 8000/9000k I think ) but in the end bough the second hand F89, for considerably less money…

The Hants/ Dorset agent was H.King & Sons(Wimborne) Ltd & yes they did seem to “lack the experience” of the established dealers.
IIRC they took on the Roman franchise as well

Roolechat…That’s the one…

[saviem]

Evening all,

roolchat is right, H K ing and Sons, Agricultural Engineers, based in Wimbourne. My early days in France, hosted them on a visit to Blainville, they had a “whizz kid”, who was going to change the world… had a business in Blandford Forum, and sold BMW motor cycles…helped the Directors of King start a transport company…“Euro King”…I believe that it ended up owing a lot of money, to a lot of people who simply could not afford it.

Did a lot of the aircraft work out of Herne, run from a terraced house in Wimbourne. He actually destroyed a good business that was Kings, they were agents for Belarus…when anything Russian was really exotic!

Fergie, good job that you had the second hand F89, for the little Saviem, that was specified by Nickersons, the then Importer, was really a P92 Scania, or F86 Volvo competitor @192 hp…yet they could have imported the ,(original), SM 280 V8, @275 hp, or even the SM300, @ 310 hp…

But that column gearchange was a dream to use…pity that the UK specified a floor change for the 36.280…but my dear friend Daniel Laffly was originally a Banker…so he could be forgiven!

The Biss lorry, driving is their salesman, (sadly I cannot recall his name)…and slumped, (half asleep as usual), in the passenger seat is Pat Fowles who was Nickersons Demonstrator Driver…and great , and funny company. Lived in Brigg, if I remember right…you would need a sense of humour to live there!

Personally I never took to the Biss set up…But the King people were sadly out of their depth, but were honest and honourable.

Robert French, “Moyen Orient” hauliers, three Chapuis together, that was a rare sight…now two or three VITs were common, (and there was a reason)…four or five Onatras, with big Chemical Tanks, just the same, and a brace or two of Soc Carrys DAFs just the same…but dear old Phillipe Stouffes.......well at least one would be abandoned......broken down......stuck.....or turned over........but what a company......and what a reputation..........gosh there are some storys to be told…

But VIT,Chapuis, and Onatra are dearest to my heart , professional, clear cut in business, honourable to both client, and more important employee, and having a reputation that endures to today…Oh dear Stouff…yes I, (as many before), had my fingers burned!!!

Perhaps I should write a little about these company`s, for they are of an era now gone forever, and they really were some incredible outfits…

First Question…which French Middle East Haulier had their first head office in a Castle?

Cheerio for now.

[erf-continental]

Good old times…however still not familiar with Onatra’s connection to Pakhoed from Holland.

Freddy Van Gaever sure WAS wellknown and DAF did a hell of a job delivering DAF, even trailers.

A picture attached, good old Saviem

[fergie47]

Lets talk ONATRA…are the first pic’s the original Onatra, prior to the yellow we all know ? or a different company.

Photo of the DAF has on the left hand side of the bumpet V.I.T…is that a connection with V.I.T. Transport, or short for the depot it came from…and the lovely blonde madam, is a driver perhaps …

[fergie47]

Another company worth a mention. GIRAUD

[fergie47]

And another famous haulier STOUFF…France / M.E.

[fergie47]

Another Onatra with VIT on the front…

[saviem]

Evening all,

Boy, oh boy, now I must get my “thinking cap” on…A Js and Fergies questions, are not simple ones.

And it has been one of those “stressful” days…not in terms of anything positive for the Farm, or any other projects…but we have a week of “festivities” far from home…a family wedding…(at least its better than a Funeral…I suppose)!..spanning the early part of September…and I thought Gypsies and Hindu`s had long weddings!!!

Today, under strict instruction, I had to try on my outfits…now I never have been keen on getting dressed up like a fancy doll…and even less as the years advance…I hate new clothes…So having being instructed to try on my ceremonial “regalia” …for my ladies to check out…I chose to make the grand entrance wearing my best Morning Trousers…and my much valued Purple, Gold, and Blue, Edwin Shirley Trucking, jacket…(which I can still get into…and has had very little wear indeed)!!!

The silence was …well…silent…then came the bollicking…

Ah well, its te suits and Morning Jacket I suppose…and the" itchy" shirts!!

To business…and my friends at Transports Onatra…forgive me if for reasons of clarity I dodge from question to question, for with the history of Onatra, the story is so huge, and so complex, as to be very difficult to separate one from another…

First…Onatra had nothing to do with Onassis!

Its beginning was in 1943, at 1 Rue Saint Adelaide Marseille, and its founder Jean Arcostanzo.(Son of Marseille Wine Merchant Ambrose, an importer of some note in the field of Algerian Wine).
Jean Arcostanzo`s first transports were in “Public Works”, …earthmoving, and contracting, Societie Onater…(remember that name for it re appears much, much , later).
1950, the transport interests of Jean Arcostanzo, now resident at 10 Boulevard Anatole France, Marseille, became ONATRA…(Omnium NAtional de TRAnsports et des exploitations routiers).

Early traffic centred around the haulage of Bauxite, hence the ruby red livery.
1961 the largest order to date in France for Magirus lorries, Pluto 200FS, and 200s, (eventually over 800 operated.)

The 1960s were the pinnacle of Onatra as a transport operation , and in terms of profitability. I will not go into detail here, but it is a worthy subject for the future…as is a discourse on their Willeme and Berliet fleet…which laid the foundation for their purchase policy of…Simple specifications to give utter reliability, and only young vehicles to be operated…a very avant garde policy for traditional French Hauliers.

1970, Onatra employed some 1200 staff, and moved to a new facility at the 3rd Avenue, Zone Industriel , Vitrolles. A site of some 7.5 hectares, where all activities associated with a 1000 plus fleet transport operation were carried out…including their own Bandag tyre operation…and that 6 storey office block…for Onatra were active in France, the Benelux, Italy and Spain, both in dry, refrigerated, liquid, and chemical/powder freight.

Oh… and they had started to loose money!!!

Late 1972, 50% of Onatra was acquired by Hollands Pakhoed Transportgroep BV, of Haye.
1972, Onatra Italia created
1973, new livery, out with ruby red, and in with bright chrome yellow, with a red band…and Pakhoeds symbol…the red hat, (based on a traditional Dutch Amsterdam Dockers hat).
The fleet was now split between Berliet 10 litre, and 12 litres with the relax cab, and Magirus 230 D 19s.
1973 400 Saviem SM tractors were purchased on a 3 year deal with a guaranteed buy back. A variety of SM260Ts 266 hp MAN 2356, 10 litres, and Saviem 8 speed GV gearboxes, these for “local”…French work.The remainder being Saviem SM 300 MAN V8 2658 14.9 litre@ 300hp, with 9 speed fullers. Simple specifications.

At the same time a small number of Berliet TR 260 12 litres were evaluated

From here on, the buying policy of Onatra was simply…a standard hp specification, say 280/300…the cheapest front end cost, and the highest residual guarantee…that got the deal!

And they bought big, if I remember in 76, 100 DAF 2805DKTD were acquired..........(it no doubt helped that M Lecompte, and Pizutto, both previously senior Directors at Onatra......were Directors of DAF France)!!!!!!!!!Then at the end of the year Magirus were back with 200 M 310 19s........but "we" were back in 77 with 200 SM340, with the ultra reliable MAN 2858 @335 hp.........(I can still feel that hot sun on my back in the yard at Vitrolles when we handed them over)......and according to Onatras records those 340s were the best vehicles that they ever operated!

But let me not deviate from answering the questions…1975 Pakhoed acquired 100% of the equity of Onatra.
March 1976 Jean Arcostanzo retired, and the new PDG was Freddy Van Gaever, supported by M Josien and Guieu.

1976 Onatra Italia created…“stealing” the very talented Pierre Bernadette, from VIT Italia, (Valenton International Transports Italien operation)…a mortal blow indeed.
Another 100 2805DKTDs, (200 in `77), and Pacton Tilts…and another 200 Magirus…(I always thought them a much underated lorry, light, economic, easy to drive, quiet)…

And in `76, a new method of identifying which depot a lorry came from…
I will not bore you with all of them, but to answer Fergies query, SET…Seclin,…(ran 400 Saviems).

VIT…Vitrolles,…worthy of a thread of its own…Freddys top floor office…bet the ones in the Shell Building on Londons Embankment were not so swish!!!

TAT…Tancarville… 200 plus Saviems…and loved the one with the Rolls Royce Engine and Fuller box!!!

But…

Onatra did sub contract work from VIT…and VIT purchased lorries from Onatra…and VITs Commercial Director did end up, (for a brief period), at Vitrolles…But that history is for another day, and some words on Valenton International Transport.

1978 Group Ibel-Amabo from Belgium took control of Onatra…out with the" red hat"…and in with a big red T on the trailer sides!
1979 purchased from Pakhoed the Dutch firm of Duyckaerts,
Foundation in the USA of Onatra - Ghemar…

Amid mounting losses Freddy Van Gaever left the Group! December 1980.
1980/1983…board room reshuffles on a regular basis as the losses piled up!
1983, 300 DAF 3300DKXs acquired as Onatra opened a trans Maghreb operation!

1985, departure of the old Board of Directors, Josien, Leecomte, Pizutto, and because of the colossal losses the Onatra operation was split into six divisions, Onater, Onalor, Onasud, Transchem, Translacq, and Sogestra.

Then along comes Patrck Aubry…(.a name so linked with success in French Transport)…and buys the old Onatra…and another story unfolds inside his Group Extrans!

Forgive me if it all sounds so boring…but I have tried to pick out salient facts regarding Onatra. It was an incredible operation, staffed by some real personalities. I spent a lot of my time with them. I have great affection for the company, but more so for the individuals who worked there.

And fancy putting up pictures of Phillipe Stouffs Berliets..........or where they still mine when those pictures were taken!!!!!!!!! My friends at VIT used to say......." we are not like Stouffs…we always get there and back, and never ever leave our lorries and loads on the roadside"…And VIT used to depart one lorry each day on the road to Baghdad…365 days a year…and also went to Nepal, Nigeria, Iran, …but its getting late,

One last Bollinger…

And no more dressing up tomorrow…I hope.

Cheerio for now.

[fergie47]

WOW…thank you John… I’m going to bet that 99% of todays French drivers haven’t a clue of the complexity of the Onatra group, that’s if they can even remember them, the old Onatra that is…
thank you once again for your time and effort…

I think it must be a trait with lorry drivers reference “suiting up”. me too,can’t stand it, but sometimes you just have to, more funerals these days than weddings though…

[erf-continental]

I second Fergie’s remarks! Thank you John for a thorough description of the Onatra-legacy!

It triggers me a lot to dive again in the Pakhoed-history.

Enjoy your evening and Bollinger

[jsutherland]

Thanks John. A wonderful insight.

I also loved your description of the dressing up parade.

Johnny

[fergie47]

My friends at VIT used to say…" we are not like Stouff`s…we always get there and back, and never ever leave our lorries and loads on the roadside".

Think they might have been right John !! Just hope that none of the drivers were seriously hurt.

[sammyopisite]

Fergie47:
My friends at VIT used to say…" we are not like Stouff`s…we always get there and back, and never ever leave our lorries and loads on the roadside".

Think they might have been right John !! Just hope that none of the drivers were seriously hurt.

Fergie I think the drivers are all employed over here now

cheers Johnnie

[fergie47]

sammyopisite:

Fergie47:
My friends at VIT used to say…" we are not like Stouff`s…we always get there and back, and never ever leave our lorries and loads on the roadside".

Think they might have been right John !! Just hope that none of the drivers were seriously hurt.

Fergie I think the drivers are all employed over here now

cheers Johnnie

What are you saying John, they’re not as good as we use to be…

[saviem]

Evening all,

Fergie, thanks for the “horrific” Stouff pictures…they “bought”…(now there is a debatable term)…20 TR280s, to replace some fairly well worn Saviem SM 300s…6 were “disappeared”, en route to…(wherever)…

The big, big difference between Stouff, and outfits such as VIT, Chapuis, and Onatra, was the fact that the drivers were on “trip money”…not wages.

VIT pay was average French road hauliers, plus 30%, plus expenses, with a compulsory, (paid at the same rate), week off at the end of each trip. Any family problems for those at home, whilst the driver was away, were to be routed via “Mimi” at Valenton, and the Company would help out. If a driver wished to take his wife along, that was cleared and ok, no problems, and her cost was absorbed by the company…and many did just that!

No risks were taken by Valenton, either with their equipment, or, their staff. The number of movements that they achieved, particularly into Iraq, were remarkable, and if a company sub contracted to VIT, then they had to adhere to the business practice of VIT. Even Onatra, who learned a lot from VIT, and as a consequence modified their activities with bulk chemical tanks into Turkey.

VIT never failed to make a delivery, (where have I heard that phrase before)?..and their used vehicles with their Burg swop bodies were highly prized, and carryfasts correct comment regarding the ideal trunk configuration of a VIT drawbar, is only incorrect in one area, for VIT ran on a ratio of three bodies per drawing unit, fast turn around was the key on those 90 cu metre outfits, so the swop bodies were well used indeed!

I must gather my thoughts, and write a little about VIT, for the company was truly remarkable in its concept, execution, and reputation in long distance transport, right from 1963 up until the late 80s. It would bear interesting comparison with the UKs Middle East Operators.

But the Bollinger calls…for I have had to parade like a mannequin…and visit the Dentist…(actually my pal…so it a`int too bad)…and try to sort out a failed patio door…and top a “weedy” paddock…(guess which job I enjoyed the most)?

Cheerio for now…

Stouff…oh the stuff of nightmares…