Saviem's fan club (Part 1)

Saviem:
Evening all,

by gum Gentlemen, what a cornucopia of visual delight! There I was about to comment on michels kind contribution, with its peculiar looking, but superb bodywork of Raul Teihol, from his works at Courpiere, (he created some superb exhibition, mobile shop, and incredible mobile Hospital bodies on our Saviem and Berliet chassis)…

But his mind was so fertile, and he was, from the 60s an innovator with GRP. So much so that he created a “beach car”, similar to the Citroen Mehari, but based on the Renault 4. and 6.This was the Rodeo, odd looking, but a real hoot to drive…and he also built large volume bodies on the Renault Estafette platform…and then Electric powered vehicles…and also that incredible Willeme 8 cylinder 140kph test truck for Michelin, with the cabin based around the windscreen of a DS Citroen…

Renault changed their plans…he faced ruin…then created the Citroen AX based Tangara, with its Range Rover front…the GRP was superb, and they sold quite well, but the age of the Beach Car…a la Mini Moke was over…and the lorry bodywork side could not cover the cost of three factories, and a Rue Marcel Renault , Paris, address for the Group head office…A truly interesting company, and all of his Hot Press panel forming presses were of British Manufacture!

Then pv83 throws those superb, and to me, so nostalgic Heavy Haulage pictures into the thread…

Patrick, Transports Cauvas, , started by Jean Pierre Albert Cauvas, sometime around the early 70s. Operated from premises along Rue du Pont Yblon, in Bonneil en France, just south of Gonesse. I used to get there by going along Stalingrad, then down Route de Paris, and around the dog leg.

In my day they were not such a big player as SCALES, or Stag, but they were very aggressive on their pricing, and secured a lot of jobs, many of which they subcontracted to the likes of Alibert, (did you ever see their re-cabbed Pacific)? my word they were great engineers, particularly on the crane side.

Cauvas bought wisely, and had a pair of TG150 tonne Willeme`s, as well as his big Scanias, an odd ball ERF Continental, that always looked, (and smelled), like a rebuild, rather than a proper lorry…but so many heavy haulers were re-builds…or re-engineered lorries to suit the operators needs. Cauvas also had an ex STSI Mack R serie, with the 20 speed transmission, that could pull far more than anyone could expect from such modest power.

They did a lot of Rail work, alongside Venissieux based Millom, (another outfit running some really effective equipment)…both of them liked their Faymonville trailers, …nice and low for the railway stuff! Although Jean Pierre had great service from his TBO Berliet, Scania held his heart, but he did like the German kit, MAN and Faun, but long after my time I think that he went towards DAF, but that was an emerging trend, less specialised equipment, but more “normal” stuff that could do the weight, but come back empty at highway speeds!

Like our later R Serie, as you have pictured. In the UK most importers ignored the “heavy” end of the market, because the sales potential was so low, compared to the cost of supporting the product. The only lorry that I can personally recall from your pictures is the Parry one…and that because it has on its trailer one of my imported Russian T34s, that I sold to William Gallier at Atcham, and he sold on, (with a new paint job), to one of his clients…getting that Kaiser" whistler" onto the back end was a bit of a squeeze!

William always had a few bits of kit on show at the Three Pigeons public house at Knockin, along the A5, but his main stock was with John at the Glory Hole at Atcham. That picture must be early 90s…my good lady said the best sight that she ever had of those T34s was the smokey exhausts dissappearing over the brow of the hill on the way to load on the lane…and we broke one lad from Folkeston`s King Trailer in two getting a T34 onto it!!!

I always rather rated Mr Fiats heavies, very strong, and I thought quite reliable, but perhaps Im in a minority! As well as that big MOL Cappelle also had a rather smooth, and very reliable 150 tonne Saviem 6x4, Funny, when you look at MOLs creations, just how much of the original Willeme TG features remain. Zucconnis TBO I had a fair bit to do with, even though she was a geriatric girl, but they had a fantastic collection of big Nicolas necks, and 12, and 16 ligne modules to suit. Dessirer H Zucconni, STAG, Mayer, and SCALES, (Ex Robert Leyx) had very similar equipment, and working together inside GIE on behalf of EDF, Frances National Power Company there was a fair bit of equipment interchange between them, as well as combinations having lead, and pusher tractors from seperate company`s. But of them all, for sheer earth shattering calcophony, the Detroit V12s of Mayer, (later MKTS), took some beating, particularly with a 13 speed Fuller to conduct the music!..Dear old ■■■■■■■ could do the business…but the sound effects were so subdued…and that is why Zucconni specified ■■■■■■■ for its TG Willeme PRPs, rather than those raucous boys from Nancy!

Apologies if Ive gone on a bit…taken me right back those images…Thank you

Cheerio for now.

Well…there’s nowt wrong with that memory of yours Mr. Saviem , always a pleasure to read the fond memories one still haves of days long gone…

jsutherland:

pv83:

jsutherland:

Retired Old ■■■■:
Remember we are talking “France” here, Patrick- he wouldn’t be expecting our lovely sponge-bottomed strawberry & cream concoction, he would probably be salivating over a Quiche Lorraine. Or some other foreign muck. Anyone for a chip buttie and a pint of Banks’ bitter?

I live in Germany and wouldn’t mind a sponge bottomed concoction now and again, especially with a pint of bitter.

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Living in Germany… you must have been dragged into it I reckon :question: :laughing:

No, I wasn’t dragged here. I rather like living and working in Germany. The quality of life is great. The cost of living is also quite cheap.

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See what you mean, you’re not the first one to have taken that step, I’ve done some hauling for the armed forces based there, and a lot of the “older” staff lived in Germany for more then 30 years… and thought of it as their home country now. Sometimes they do go back to the UK to visit family and such and they hardly recognise it anymore, the UK they’ve left doesn’t excist anymore…

I’ve also done a few, but the Mercedes factory at Würth is really amazing. No 2 models the same being built at the same time. They have 4 lines running simultaneously. I am planning on returning for another visit. The first time was too much to take in all at once, at least for my mind…

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French buddies came up with a few Pacifics as promised…it’d be rude not to share them with you

pacific_srnicolas7ligne.jpg

img-2399112257.jpg

A few more…

The rest will have to wait for another day

379369-pacific-m26.jpg

pacificsurpuitpetrolier.jpg

I KNOW its not a Pacific…but… I love 'em,

Old nostalgia of the week…a lot of the older lads will recognise it…

pete smith:
Mr Fergie,
Top photographs again, Thanks for taking time to post them… Mrs Smith is doing this juicing thing, veg fruit etc, I’ve told her its not a new idea Banks’s brewery have been juicing hops for donkeys years and it looks and taste’s better than that muck she is turning out :smiley:

Now Smithy, have you actually told Mrs S that her juice is muck, well, have you ? I somehow don’t think so, you’re not that brave… Unless a large box of pork pies aren’t dispatched PDQ to beautiful Brittany, then she may find out…by accident of course… :smiling_imp:

Hi Fergie, looking at the photos of the Pacifics the French did not do much with the cabs unlike Wynns but they seemed to run quite a few of them.

cheers Johnnie

Fergie47:
Old nostalgia of the week…a lot of the older lads will recognise it…

I would guess that is the " coffee money donation point " :unamused:

cheers Johnnie :wink:

Wow Fergie, you sure have an amazing collection if photos. Thanks for putting them on here.

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Evening all,

Now my response to this latest galaxy of pictures may read a trifle Dyslexic…Im home late, (sileage at a neighbour who needs a hand…plus the normal days jobs)…and my good lady has on the table, (well about 10 minutes away so I have been told)…the most aromatic stuffed peppers, with marjoram, baked Yorkshire" Melodys"…and the most prolific Broccoli that you have ever seen…and Ive just opened a 1987 Mouton Cadet…so if Im late…Im done for…I really am!

Guy Moraud, his operation at Boulevard Alfred Deney, Bordeaux is still there, although I believe is now part of my friends at Capelle Groupe. I knew Michel, Guys son, who had run the business, and taken it into ultra heavy haulage from the late `60s.

Guy had started in the 40s working for the US Forces, so those Pacifics were familier to him. He ran them with the Hall and Scott petrol engines, and worked them very hard indeed. But they also had a substantial chemical transport operation, as well as crane hire, (sold to Groupe Foselev),The spur to go into heavy haulage was really the demise of the Bordeaux docks.

Sammyopposite, you are quite right, the French used their Pacifics “raw”, straight from the SNVS, if the cabs were armoured, well they cut holes in them so the crews could see where they were going!, but the soft skins were favoured. But of the conversions, then Alibert, perhaps had the best lookers, although many got rid of the 7 ton armoured cab, not least Electricitie de France, (EDF), whose quite bizarre cab resembled a FAR three wheeler from th back, as per Fergies picture.

Dan, that TR of Cheltenham, based Allwood Transport, I never knew that Don Griffiths had stayed with tippers. The Derek Benfield ones I remember, was he from Hook Norton, one of the early Saviem/Berliet operators on coal,the J&J TR is one of the dozen or so operated by John Yendle, (backed by Don Griffiths, so traded as Alwood Transport Bristol), their daily work was Bristol to Gargrave, and back every day, boy they did some mileage…Richard Lawson, (his dad really got me into Potato growing, what he had forgotten, I wished I knew as much about the humble spud)!..Ran quite a few car franchises, but it was always cold up there!

NMM, what could I say about Lacroix? Somua, Saviem, right through to the very last PS 30s. What an operation, refrigerated haulage at its best. Their base at Lons-le- Sounier in the Jura had been graced by some magnificent machines. Cottard built Integral 26 tonne Refigerated vans on Somua, and early Saviem Chassis, then of course there was their foray into the Middle East, Volvo, as well as Saviem,I think that by the late 80s they were being pursued by Groupe Hays as they were so successfull, by then there were a lot of Volvo`s in the fleet, but my word, back in the late 70s they were a prime Saviem fleet user, and loved the MAN V8s for their over the road performance.

Just quickly, back to the Pacifics, (and these tractors really were the back bone of French Heavy Haulage in the 50s to the 60s, (and some ran well into the late 80s)!

The Bourgey-Montreuil ones were all re- powered with ■■■■■■■■ and that trailer was ex Farcat, and utilised a cut off Pacific bogie at the back.

The Farcat one is ex Gary de Favries, and again the last two axles on their 1400x20s is a cut down Pacific, incidentally Farcat were the only French operator to adopt the UK habit of naming their units, Fergie shows Mammouth on his picture!

That atmospheric shot of the outriders preceeding a Pacific shows just what a “Fugg” the 18 litre Hall and Scott petrol threw out when working hard, …and work hard they did…yet for all the brutal appearance, the controls were light to the touch, and responsive.

That 2x12 ligne trailer, being pushed by Farcats Pacific, and pulled by the Diamond T 680, and Autocar, is the war reperation ex Kriegs Marine U boat trailer. Now that move, and the equipment utilised is worthy of some words, perhaps for another time…

I must go, Ive just heard the kitchen door close…and there are footsteps across the yard…

Great pictures gentlemen…

Cheerio for now…Tea calls!!!

jsutherland:
I’ve also done a few, but the Mercedes factory at Würth is really amazing. No 2 models the same being built at the same time. They have 4 lines running simultaneously. I am planning on returning for another visit. The first time was too much to take in all at once, at least for my mind…

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If you can, get a tour of the Molsheim plant, that’s where they do all the specials, from stretching wheelbases to some pretty serious re-engineering. I never got the chance myself, but I know from the time when I earned my moniker, that they do some pretty special things in there.

I’m going to visit the Volvo plant in Virginia, the same one that made my trucks, just waiting for the next tour from my dealer, missed one recently as my bloody passport had expired, so I’m marooned up here in the frozen north until the new one shows up.

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Fergie47:
Old nostalgia of the week…a lot of the older lads will recognise it…

The stomping ground of many scantily clad jeune fils.

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newmercman:

jsutherland:
I’ve also done a few, but the Mercedes factory at Würth is really amazing. No 2 models the same being built at the same time. They have 4 lines running simultaneously. I am planning on returning for another visit. The first time was too much to take in all at once, at least for my mind…

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If you can, get a tour of the Molsheim plant, that’s where they do all the specials, from stretching wheelbases to some pretty serious re-engineering. I never got the chance myself, but I know from the time when I earned my moniker, that they do some pretty special things in there.

I’m going to visit the Volvo plant in Virginia, the same one that made my trucks, just waiting for the next tour from my dealer, missed one recently as my bloody passport had expired, so I’m marooned up here in the frozen north until the new one shows up.

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Thanks for the tip. I’ll look into it.

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Was looking on another forum when this came up, apperently Berliet sold vehicles as far away as Australia…?

Cheers, Patrick

pv83:
Was looking on another forum when this came up, apperently Berliet sold vehicles as far away as Australia…?

Cheers, Patrick

Evening all,

My word Patrick that is an obscure one to dig up!

Berliet were active in the Australian market, but primarily as an equipment supplier. Their axle sets were the standard bogie for the Australian built Leader BWL-4063, (and that had ties back to Atkinson).

There were only about 6 or so Berliets actually imported into Australia by WESTCO, owned by the Andersons, who operated the Queensland Transport Terminal. All were TR280 derivatives with the 266 hp 12 litre , but one was imported of the new TR305, again with a double drive Berliet bogie.

At that time Berliet were virtually bankrupt, (again), and really could not support the product. There were problems with the semi curved windscreen on the KB 24 cab, as replacements could not be easily sourced. Hence most ended up with the two piece set up as on the models operated by Nick Banaves from Rocklea Brisbane. He also sub contracted via the Queensland Transport Terminal.

There was also a GBH bonneted tractor imported, as well as a very low geared G serie for road surface measurement and evaluation, (the same specification as the two operated by the UKs Transport and Road Research Laboratory)…

I remember that one of my colleagues from Mack Allentown had worked alongside WESTCO when they imported those TR 280 6x4s, and he said that they were well liked, (mainly because of the cab , and ride comfort…far better than the then current Mack, but of course Berliet were simply not in any position to support a new market, and particularly via a Concessionaire rather than direct.

Somewhere I have a briefing paper regarding the potential of the Australian lorry market, done for M Grobb, (our ultimate “big cheese”)…recommending that the best strategy was to develop, and support the links with our “new” American colleagues from Mack…who “know the market well”…so that is I suppose how the Magnum cab appeared in the Antipodes many years later!

Cheerio for now.

Leader used Berliet axles- who would have guessed that? Did every other Australian lorry supplier not use Hendrickson or Rockwell? What twist of circumstance drove an Australian assembler to buy its bits in France?

A little closer to home for this one after the epic, but brief journey down under the thread has just taken.

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Fergie47:
French buddies came up with a few Pacifics as promised…it’d be rude not to share them with you

Cheers for that mate, especially the one one the bridge, very nice indeed :sunglasses: