ianyng:
jessicas dad:
im for a shaftingoh my god im in for it now …
its people doing euro work that ive met running bent…
now now all you doing euro work dont jump on me
:
JD doesn’t enjoy life does he?
Coffeeholic - You sit on him while I thump him!
im sorry ian that was a sweeping statement and i did edit it before it went out but you still got hold off it.
Its ok JD, and I actually agree with you for what you said.
I work on a contract for a firm in leeds, and you are correct.
JD is correct,( if it the same freight forwrader, i think he talking about) ,i’ve been on the end of , If it’s not there tomorrow, forget your company’s contract.( Leed’s to Turin !!!),
ianyng:
jessicas dad:
im for a shaftingoh my god im in for it now …
its people doing euro work that ive met running bent…
now now all you doing euro work dont jump on me
:
JD doesn’t enjoy life does he?
Coffeeholic - You sit on him while I thump him!
He did take it back so maybe we can let him off this time.
Out of all the owner-drivers I know, most of who are on Euro work, I know three who run bent. One does it as a matter of course and seems incapable of running straight. He even does it when there is absolutely no need to and when he doesn’t actually get any benefit from doing so. The other two do it now and again and in a very small way, yeah, I know in the same way you can’t be a little bit pregnant, you can’t be a little bit bent. Those two only do it for reasons of greed; they are not doing it because they are desperate for the money that is for sure.
wheelnut,
i owe you an appoligy, this is what you wrote
“I was an owner driver for many years, and the only way to make a living was to run bent, miss a months tax, use red diesel and cut costs in any way possible. The reason for this is it all too easy to buy a truck and become an owner driver or company owner. there are far too many trucks on the road and far too many large companies running them, dictating low rates”
it was daft rob who stated “99% of owner drivers run bent” but he’s made talking silly a fulltime hoby 
paul b:
wheelnut,
i owe you an appoligy, this is what you wrote“I was an owner driver for many years, and the only way to make a living was to run bent, miss a months tax, use red diesel and cut costs in any way possible. The reason for this is it all too easy to buy a truck and become an owner driver or company owner. there are far too many trucks on the road and far too many large companies running them, dictating low rates”
it was daft rob who stated “99% of owner drivers run bent” but he’s made talking silly a fulltime hoby
I still stand by what I said too. Anyone who thinks differently is extremely naive. In fairness though, I’m not just singling out owner drivers but it is my belief that they are the majority culprits. However there are probably a proportionate number of haulage companies out there that employ drivers who are required to ‘pedal it’ as well.
As for covering your back as far as your tacho is concerned, it really isn’t difficult to do if you use a little thought and lateral thinking. 
The number of o/d’s abroad running bent.
I’ve seen drivers pull up next to me, take a tacho out, put another one in and go again.
One driver I was talking to on the CB on the ring road in Milan the other week said that he didn’t leave Manchester until late Saturday evening. This was 5pm local MONDAY in Milan, and he said that he’d already done 2 drops there!
Impossible legally!
Archies have firms that run bent, and I don’t get the cream of the work because me and my drivers are too slow!
Not all o/d’s run that way, but how the job is nowadays, it’s becoming more and more of a requirement over there.
rob you may have some valid points but saying the way to clear up the haulage industry is to get rid of owner drivers just makes no sense at all!
i’m an o/d, a one man band but i sub most of my work off a large haulage company who run maybe something like 100 wagons, the owner is well known locally and it is also well known that this fella started in the late seventies as a o/d with one wagon, so to your logic this bloke should never have been able to start up and the 100 odd people he now employs would in theory be out of work?.
i started this thread to give all those who are quick to cast aspurssions the chance to back it up but not one has actually been able to come up with a way that anyone could run bent and get away with it with todays rules and regulations so to me that says one or to should engage brain before mouth!
nothing personal but nobody likes being called bent when they’re not.
I will agree with both points.
If you want to employ 100 blokes abd start as an owner driver, you will run bent
On the other hand, if you want to be an owner driver with 1 truck, you can run legal.
Geoffrey Cave - Wood admits to running close to the fence to build up his busiiness, as do most others who started in the 60’s
Im not sure whether PaulB is whiter than white, but I remember him asking advice on how to start as an owner driver not very long ago. Im older than Rob K, I remember how most transport companies started around me, and it was not good luck, or good management.
The best jobs paid the best money, the best money had to be earnt. everybody wants to work for the bloke with the fancy new truck. Unless he started out with a large fortune he will not make a small fortune, running for rates as low as 98ppm
I was brought up around one of the best paid areas for haulage rates, and I saw them come with new ideas, new motors and flexible hours. Only a few made it, not through running bent, but by not getting caught.
If you believe what you are posting Paul, then tell me again in 20 years.
This is the bit where I agree with Rob K
I also agree with a post of Neils that some blokes cannot run straight if they try.
There are some people who have managed to secure a decent contract, there are many who havent.
Not sour grapes, just reality 
paul b:
rob you may have some valid points but saying the way to clear up the haulage industry is to get rid of owner drivers just makes no sense at all!
i’m an o/d, a one man band but i sub most of my work off a large haulage company who run maybe something like 100 wagons, the owner is well known locally and it is also well known that this fella started in the late seventies as a o/d with one wagon, so to your logic this bloke should never have been able to start up and the 100 odd people he now employs would in theory be out of work?.
i started this thread to give all those who are quick to cast aspurssions the chance to back it up but not one has actually been able to come up with a way that anyone could run bent and get away with it with todays rules and regulations so to me that says one or to should engage brain before mouth!
nothing personal but nobody likes being called bent when they’re not.
As has been said already, details of how to run bent are not going to be aired on public forums.
just out of intrest i would like to see the minstrey go to felixstowe or southampton on a friday evening and pull every lorry and see how many have cards in and how many dont and the same goes for zeebrugge rotterdam and calais.
if this bothers you dont let it cos if you have your card in it wont affect you.
i also know the ministery regular check gate records at leeds con base and freightliner of suspected firms to see what time they are log coming through the gate and back out again.
also at freightliner leeds the minstrey come in about once a month and check all vehicles leaving and ive seen tatty old trucks and brand new ones all parked up with defects and ive been in lcs and norcon container yards in leeds and heard drivers on the phone refusing to go into f/liner when the ministrey is there.
The ministry haven’t got any powers abroad, so checkin’ tachos the other side of the water or even at the docks won’t do any good.
French coppers don’t mind how many hours driving you’ve done, as long as you’ve had plenty of breaks.
i’ve never claimed to be whiter than white, infact a lot would say i’m lucky to still have my o’license after my first year as an o/d having been caught early on commiting tacho offences and with an unsafe vehicle both out of stupidity and not really understanding the rules n regs this has meant that i’ve attracted a bit more attention from the ministry than maybe i would’ve done otherwise but thats my whole point, they don’t miss a thing, yes theres plenty of strokes you can pull and maybe twenty years ago you’d have got away with some but today if anyone thinks they can fool the ministry they’re only fooling themselves cus it’s only a matter of time before they or the driver they employ get a pull and then all those little strokes that seemed a good idea at the time are just nails in the coffin.
there seems to be an idea that all o/d’s run round for t’pence nothing a mile so have to bend the rules to make it pay, although i’ll admit that some of the rates i’ve heard mentioned seem very low, without going into detail i earn what a lot of people would consider very good money out of my one wagon and never come close to having to do anything dodgy to earn it. thats not to say there won’t be some lads who’ve been at it many years who wouldn’t know how to run legally, all i’d say is don’t tar us all with the same brush without any facts and if all of you company drivers think it’s so easy to start up and get away with bending the rules, why not have a go?
you can download an application for an o’license from vosa’s website.
good luck
paul.
ianyng:
The ministry haven’t got any powers abroad, so checkin’ tachos the other side of the water or even at the docks won’t do any good.
French coppers don’t mind how many hours driving you’ve done, as long as you’ve had plenty of breaks.
Don’t be so sure about that Ian. The different countries share information and resources. When you get pulled into a control in Ludwigshafen, Lyon or Lille and it is a British Vosa employee on an exchange programme. It happens, Vosa have every right to set up a control at Coquelles in the tunnel area.
I have been stopped at Orleans recently with British customs and Vosa employees checking trucks
paul b:
if all of you company drivers think it’s so easy to start up and get away with bending the rules, why not have a go?
Because some of us use the brains we were born with Paul.
£1 per mile + £1 per litre of derv + 8 miles per gallon quite obviously doesn’t make economical sense.
Rob, i have just got to this post and find that you belive o/d,s are the main bent users in the commerical haulge trade,“” SORRY"" you are dreaming in cloud cuckoo-land the big firms will run bent and do as is found out when they are taken to court,I regret the passing of the headlight as this was all ways intrsting to read about the firms and drivers who had been caught judged and sentenced,so rob think about it and you will come also to the same answer as many of us no it is not the o/D,s who are the main illegal operators but those firms who try to make more profit on the misuse of there employed staff, by undue pressure to complete the drops come what may,
you are therefore i do belive wrong,and for me it is the firms who are the biggest offenders,
look at it this way, a company runs ten wagons, each wagon has a paid driver on wages including holiday pay, employers ni contributions etc plus the company driver requires paying when the job goes ■■■■ up and the wagons stood for half a day, the wagons have to be maintained, taxed and insured and run on diesel. the company pays all that out and makes a good profit out of each wagon, the o/d works at a less rate because he’s subing and the company wants to make money on their work but the o/d dosn’t have a tm to pay or advertissing or any other expenses that are not directly involved with running a wagon so the sums are really quite easy to work out, basically if theres money for the “big” companies theres money for o/d’s doing the same work. i could go into to detail as to how you make money as an o/d but thats my bussiness and would probably be to complicated for you.
Wheel Nut:
Don’t be so sure about that Ian. The different countries share information and resources. When you get pulled into a control in Ludwigshafen, Lyon or Lille and it is a British Vosa employee on an exchange programme. It happens, Vosa have every right to set up a control at Coquelles in the tunnel area.I have been stopped at Orleans recently with British customs and Vosa employees checking trucks
Now that is something I didn’t know!
So VOSA can actually do you over the water - is that what you’re saying?
ianyng:
Wheel Nut:
Don’t be so sure about that Ian. The different countries share information and resources. When you get pulled into a control in Ludwigshafen, Lyon or Lille and it is a British Vosa employee on an exchange programme. It happens, Vosa have every right to set up a control at Coquelles in the tunnel area.I have been stopped at Orleans recently with British customs and Vosa employees checking trucks
Now that is something I didn’t know!
So VOSA can actually do you over the water - is that what you’re saying?
It’s not so much they can ‘do you over the water’ as their jurisdiction is only the UK, however the information on any offence you comit over there can, and will be, passed to VOSA. This could result in them taking a keen interest in your vehicles, tachos etc.
As far as them checking vehicles at the ports when they enter Britain, there are offences they could have you for. For instance if a driver was to take less than their required daily rest in France, then ship over, VOSA could prosecute for that. Although the reduced rest was taken in another country, it has an impact on the drivers work in the UK, failure to take enough rest in the preceding 24-hour period, so they could prosecute.
I have been stopped at controls in Belgium and France where officers from the UK have been present, only observing but do you really want them observing you getting nicked by the French? I was also a few years ago stopped in a control at the top of Jubilee Way and the French where present at that one. More and more of theses joint controls will happen in the future. They recently had one at the border between Luxembourg and Belgium and as well as enforcement officers from those two countries the BAG from Germany and the French D.O.T were present. About fifty suits, of both sexes, in brand new ‘Don’t Knock Me Down Coats’ looking like they had escaped from the European Parliament for the day and showing great interest in the proceedings were also there.
I can honestly say I have never heard of that before.
All info taken in.
You can’t half learn some good stuff on here, can’t you?
A good driver never stops learning.
