Are you sure of your chronology here CF. Perkins took over RR and produced the TX a good 20 years after the Road Boss hit the scene IIRC. R
No connection between TX and any earlier American hybrid meant or implied Robert.
I mean’t the TX only in terms of a comparison regarding the ultimate development potential of the Rolls Eagle v its obvious direct counterpart Volvo TD120.Not sure but think the Eagle just about managed to beat the Volvo which topped out at 400 max ?.
( Oh and for attention of Ramone TL12 v Eagle/TD 120 ).
Are you sure of your chronology here CF. Perkins took over RR and produced the TX a good 20 years after the Road Boss hit the scene IIRC. R
No connection between TX and any earlier American hybrid meant or implied Robert.
I mean’t the TX only in terms of a comparison regarding the ultimate development potential of the Rolls Eagle v its obvious direct counterpart Volvo TD120.Not sure but think the Eagle just about managed to beat the Volvo which topped out at 400 max ?.
( Oh and for attention of Ramone TL12 v Eagle/TD 120 ).
Are you sure of your chronology here CF. Perkins took over RR and produced the TX a good 20 years after the Road Boss hit the scene IIRC. R
No connection between TX and any earlier American hybrid meant or implied Robert.
I mean’t the TX only in terms of a comparison regarding the ultimate development potential of the Rolls Eagle v its obvious direct counterpart Volvo TD120.Not sure but think the Eagle just about managed to beat the Volvo which topped out at 400 max ?.
( Oh and for attention of Ramone TL12 v Eagle/TD 120 ).
@DEANB cracking brochures there thanks for posting. @gingerfold when you say the same man developed both engines, which two engines do you mean? I have heard some where before (but haven’t had it comfirmed) that the man that developed AEC engines was the same that developed the Eagle and that there were some similarities.
Are you sure of your chronology here CF. Perkins took over RR and produced the TX a good 20 years after the Road Boss hit the scene IIRC. R
No connection between TX and any earlier American hybrid meant or implied Robert.
I mean’t the TX only in terms of a comparison regarding the ultimate development potential of the Rolls Eagle v its obvious direct counterpart Volvo TD120.Not sure but think the Eagle just about managed to beat the Volvo which topped out at 400 max ?.
( Oh and for attention of Ramone TL12 v Eagle/TD 120 ).
The same man developed both engines
I wondered when you were going to mention that Graham
230turbo: @DEANB cracking brochures there thanks for posting. @gingerfold when you say the same man developed both engines, which two engines do you mean? I have heard some where before (but haven’t had it comfirmed) that the man that developed AEC engines was the same that developed the Eagle and that there were some similarities.
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Keith Roberts was a graduate apprentice recruit at AEC Southall. He was part of the team that worked on V8 development and then headed up the development of the AV760 into the TL12, which gained a reputation as a first class engine for performance and reliability. He left AEC / British Leyland when it became apparent to him that the TL12 would be the final major engine development within the group. He joined Rolls Royce at Shrewsbury in a senior position as head of development and is credited with being the engineer who made the RR Eagle into a reliable unit. The first Eagle series had a pretty mixed reception by the industry it’s only fair to say, unreliable and heavy on fuel. There is a marked external similarity between a non-turbo Eagle and the AEC AV760.
The only personal experience I have of a RR Eagle was an engine that was powering a compressor in that wonderful summer of 1976. It was a hired in compressor and we were unaware about how poor its fuel consumption was. It ran out of fuel causing massive problems.
@gingerfold that’s very useful information thank you. It’s interesting that Keith developed the TL12 which I believe was fitted to the Marathon, and another engine I believe could be specified for the Marathon was the Eagle. I may be wrong but I’m sure I read that somewhere in the passed.
I wondered when you were going to mention that Graham
The basic architecture was based on the previous C range ? while I think we established elsewhere that the AEC designer in question had no part in that ?.With it being that which was arguably the key in its potential v the TL12 IE less bore more stroke and therefore a true rival to the TD120 able to meet it head on starting from the basics.
I wondered when you were going to mention that Graham
The basic architecture was based on the previous C range ? while I think we established elsewhere that the AEC designer in question had no part in that ?.With it being that which was arguably the key in its potential v the TL12 IE less bore more stroke and therefore a true rival to the TD120 able to meet it head on starting from the basics.
I dont think GF said he designed it from scratch , he said he made it more fuel efficient and reliable like the TL12
I wondered when you were going to mention that Graham
The basic architecture was based on the previous C range ? while I think we established elsewhere that the AEC designer in question had no part in that ?.With it being that which was arguably the key in its potential v the TL12 IE less bore more stroke and therefore a true rival to the TD120 able to meet it head on starting from the basics.
I dont think GF said he designed it from scratch , he said he made it more fuel efficient and reliable like the TL12
But no coincidence,unlike the TL12,its basic architecture matched the TD120 and then some and the rest was history in the form of the ultimate development TX providing up to 400 +.No way the TL12 was going to match that without going bang in a big expensive way.Also you could actually feel that potential was in it even in 265 form it really did pull like a train even in the higher gears although admittedly only 24t gross in my case.
Punchy Dan:
My Father ran an Eagle powered Erf it was 340hp at the start but he took it to an ex Perkins development man at Shrewsbury who fitted a new pump injectors turbo intercooler and radiator from a 410hp he said they tune them to 800hp plus in tanks ,the Erf was tuned to approx 500hp just until it didn’t smoke ,after running many ■■■■■■■ models and some Gardner’s before then he said it was the best engine he’d had in many ways .
Punchy Dan:
My Father ran an Eagle powered Erf it was 340hp at the start but he took it to an ex Perkins development man at Shrewsbury who fitted a new pump injectors turbo intercooler and radiator from a 410hp he said they tune them to 800hp plus in tanks ,the Erf was tuned to approx 500hp just until it didn’t smoke ,after running many ■■■■■■■ models and some Gardner’s before then he said it was the best engine he’d had in many ways .
Rolls Royce themselves had lorries for their transport and out of a 1948-brochure this ERF, with
then a Gardner-engine…as it would last till about the mid-fifties when RR had their own diesel.
As an apprentice mechanic with the ERF dealer in Edinburgh I worked on ERFs owned by Showrings of Shepton-Mallet , the model was with the KV cab and fitted with a 4cyl Rolls-Royce diesel engine .
But no coincidence,unlike the TL12,its basic architecture matched the TD120 and then some and the rest was history in the form of the ultimate development TX providing up to 400 +.No way the TL12 was going to match that without going bang in a big expensive way.Also you could actually feel that potential was in it even in 265 form it really did pull like a train even in the higher gears although admittedly only 24t gross in my case.
How did the Eagle “match” the TD120? Why would the TL12 been unsuitable for further development?
But no coincidence,unlike the TL12,its basic architecture matched the TD120 and then some and the rest was history in the form of the ultimate development TX providing up to 400 +.No way the TL12 was going to match that without going bang in a big expensive way.Also you could actually feel that potential was in it even in 265 form it really did pull like a train even in the higher gears although admittedly only 24t gross in my case.
How did the Eagle “match” the TD120? Why would the TL12 been unsuitable for further development?
Eagle v TD120 around same bore stroke slight advantage Eagle.
The maths are way above my pay grade but feel free to provide the loads required on the con rods and ends to provide the equivalent torque outputs and 400 + hp at 1,800 rpm with the TL12’s shorter stroke v TX.Leverage = free power or equivalent power for less effort.That’s probably why the MX 13’s designers chose the same bore as the Rolls and put the extra litre or so on the stroke.
Whilst researching the book I had planned, I got in touch with Roll-Royce themselves. I explained my plans and asked for any support they may be able to offer. They forwarded my email on to someone involved with the heritage side of the business. I was informed that a book researched by former Shrewsbury employees is expected to be published later this year. The book covers all the oil (diesel) engines produced including the Eagle right up until the eventual take over. I think I will hang fire with my aspirations for the moment until I see what comes of this book.
230turbo:
Whilst researching the book I had planned, I got in touch with Roll-Royce themselves. I explained my plans and asked for any support they may be able to offer. They forwarded my email on to someone involved with the heritage side of the business. I was informed that a book researched by former Shrewsbury employees is expected to be published later this year. The book covers all the oil (diesel) engines produced including the Eagle right up until the eventual take over. I think I will hang fire with my aspirations for the moment until I see what comes of this book.
The previous C series is an important part of the Eagle’s development.Also having given Rolls some forced induction experience in its design.
230turbo:
Whilst researching the book I had planned, I got in touch with Roll-Royce themselves. I explained my plans and asked for any support they may be able to offer. They forwarded my email on to someone involved with the heritage side of the business. I was informed that a book researched by former Shrewsbury employees is expected to be published later this year. The book covers all the oil (diesel) engines produced including the Eagle right up until the eventual take over. I think I will hang fire with my aspirations for the moment until I see what comes of this book.
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Keep up the good work and research Davy and now we have something else to look forward to for X-mas to ask
Good that former employees take the time to put ‘everything’ on paper from first hand
