Deeireland:
There’s another one ,intarder,retarder what’s the difference
I think that is just a generic trade name and generally built INside the gearbox where a traditional REtarder was fitted to a rear trailer axle (Telma), or the vehicle propshaft (Voith)
voith.com/en/products-servic … 10263.html
Had the variable one in my Scania, great piece of kit, saves loads of brake wear on the discs and is very relaxing to use particularly if you tend to crack on and brake a bit later than you should from time to time. They are a couple of grand I think to spec on a new wagon which is why most don’t go for them but over the whole life of the wagon, this I would say is paid back with fewer discs and pads being used. If I ever buy another new wagon, i’d spec it.
What’s the difference between a retarder and a Jake brake?
Sent from my GT-I9100P using Tapatalk 2
So what’s the reason some are weaker than others I presume it’s low on oil,leaking or just simply worn out,I test drove a 500fh with retarder 2008 and you could hardly feel it working then I drove a 2001 144 460 scania and it would nearly put you out the window ?
'‘Retarders’? You mean limiters?
Retards are drivers!
Cruise Control:
What’s the difference between a retarder and a Jake brake?Sent from my GT-I9100P using Tapatalk 2
A Jake brake closes some of the valves on the cylinder head which turns it into a compressor. A retarder works on the transmission.
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Electromagnetic retarders from TELMA
Many will remember following a Spaniard down a hill in the 70’s and 80’s watching this flywheel spinning on the back axle of a trailer. The rear axle had a differential and two half shafts. The diff was connected to the Telma, and they would smoothly drop down a mountain side or hill while the Brits were pushing their brakes and relying on a freak force of nature to save their souls.
Later came the hydraulic retarder, which as some know, you cannot compress a liquid, if you try to pump a pint of oil through a small nozzle the back pressure rises and there is friction. It works like a tipping hoist, the pump forces oil down a hose into the ram, it tries to escape and the only way is to push out the ram. With a retarder the oil is forced through narrow oil galleries when you ask for retardation. When you switch it off again the oil just circulates in the casing.
I remember the deputy head master at school clipping our ears whilst asking, what is heat? We replied, It’s a force of energy Sir." If there wasn’t a correct answer, then you got another clip in’t lug’ole.
Jacobs Engine Brake
What a great post,that was an education ,explained a lot.so I take it when they are weak they are either low on oil or have an internal problem maybe ,so I presume a water retarder would not be as effective even though it’s a liquid it is not as dence as hyd oil ,and all in all a great device to have on a truck.
Deeireland:
What a great post,that was an education ,explained a lot.so I take it when they are weak they are either low on oil or have an internal problem maybe ,so I presume a water retarder would not be as effective even though it’s a liquid it is not as dence as hyd oil ,and all in all a great device to have on a truck.
They lose efficiency when they overheat and oil (in my opinion) must be better as it has a higher boiling temperature than water. I remember having a gearbox retarder on an old MAN 362 and if you were not keeping a close eye on it the engine could start to boil up too. You still need to check brake and come downhill in a lower gear to keep the engine spinning as you would with a standard butterfly valved exhaust brake.
Thanks wheel nut !thats settled it then my new truck has to have one on it as they seem to be wear free I suppose to a certain extent,like everything
Thanks again
Dee
Maybe Wheelnut can help me with this one.
On the back cover of last months Classic and Sports Car magazine is a picture of an old racing car with what appears to be a disc brake fixed to the back end of the car. Whats it for? I`ve not seen one like that .
Thanks. Puzzled Paul.
MAN fitted a Pritarder,which is a water retarder fitted to the front of the engine it is lighter then the ZF intarder. Made by Voith,perhaps thats what Merc are fitting. Have 1 on a MAN TGS 8w tipper, it combines a jake style compression brake,a butterfly exhaust brake and the Pritarder, if I remember the bumf its over 700kw, of retardation thats about twice what a 13 litre Volvos VEB will do. Its a good idea as the ZF Intarder needs to be connected to the cooling system anyway. Heres the downside when the truck was about 3 years old it leaked and the seal kit was £1000, that had labour on top too. To be fair MAN did help with the bill but I thought it should have lasted longer than it did.
Deeireland:
So what’s the reason some are weaker than others I presume it’s low on oil,leaking or just simply worn out,I test drove a 500fh with retarder 2008 and you could hardly feel it working then I drove a 2001 144 460 scania and it would nearly put you out the window ?
the 500 FH was probably just a 3 stage exhaust brake and not a retarder?
here comes trouble:
Maybe Wheelnut can help me with this one.
On the back cover of last months Classic and Sports Car magazine is a picture of an old racing car with what appears to be a disc brake fixed to the back end of the car. Whats it for? I`ve not seen one like that .
Thanks. Puzzled Paul.
I presume you are not talking of the Brabham BT46 Fan Car which was banned from competion.
Oh, this isn’t the thread about people that think DCPC’s a good idea I thought it was. 
Here is a variation on the same principle, except this one is pig ugly 
This is a Chaparral 2J that uses a vacuum cleaner to ■■■■ the air from underneath it.
Not a fan car. Its an old black and white photo, maybe early 50s from an ad featuring Joachim Bonnier. I`m off to Google.
here comes trouble:
Not a fan car. Its an old black and white photo, maybe early50s from an ad featuring Joachim Bonnier. I`m off to Google.
I cannot imagine what you mean without seeing a photo. The internet doesn’t allow me to look at the magazine, but Jo Bonnier was successful in a lot of cars.
Maybe inboard discs, possibly a transaxle with the flywheel and clutch at the rear. The race engineers of the 50’s and 60’s were certainly ahead of the game.
Got it! 1960 BRM.
Found one on Google images after asking on another forum. I`m not clever enough to put the picture on here, sorry.
Still dont know how it stops the car, when the brake doesnt appear to be connected to a wheel or axle
Silver_Surfer:
Better braking with Voith Retarder for trucks. | VoithHad the variable one in my Scania, great piece of kit, saves loads of brake wear on the discs and is very relaxing to use particularly if you tend to crack on and brake a bit later than you should from time to time. They are a couple of grand I think to spec on a new wagon which is why most don’t go for them but over the whole life of the wagon, this I would say is paid back with fewer discs and pads being used. If I ever buy another new wagon, i’d spec it.
I had 60% of the factory-fitted brakepads left on my scania when it had done 580 tkms - thanks to the retarder, but then again the tyres on the driveaxle only lasted 225tkms as opposed to 300 on non-retarder equipped trucks doing the same work.