I can see the arguments re the headboard and I would probably put chains over it. I would however also have straps as straps have more grip on steel than chains. Steel on steel and all that.
Can’t say if I’d take it would need to look at whole load, not just a shot from the o/side. Would prefer chains on it.
shep532:
Hombre:
At this rate there will be sod all allowed to be transported by road, VOSAs so called matrix is a load of cobblers (yes I have looked at it), all you would need on that load with the exception for my personal preference of a higher head bord would be 4 chains.If the were chains rated at 5t lashing capacity/rated assembly strength and the load was a 20t load then maybe so - with the higher headboard. But in this instance I am quite sure they are 2.5t ratchet assemblies (most are) and therefore not enough load restraint.
Personally I find chains are often loose once the load settles, whereby webbing straps retain the tension a lot better - but not always
The VOSA matrix is not a load of cobblers … it makes sense and also gives drivers and companies an idea what is required.
I dont know how long you have been driving lorries nor what type of loads you are familiar with, but I dont agree with you. Personally I have been in this job form over 30 years and have with the exception of tippers and car transporters moved pretty much everything.
Not so long ago that load may well have been just roped, coil just sat in the well, pallettised goods were roped and sheeted, as were/are many other types of load. Vosa’s load matrix is ■■■■■■■■ - if a load is going to go forwards backwards or sideways it will, regardless of how many straps, chains, cotton wool buds or blankets you wrap it in. What really matters is the way it is driven. Unfortunately too many drivers today rely on risk assesments and other garbage and just scoot off down the road in the beleif thaat because the book says its ok, it will be. The problem isnt insecure loadfs, an insecure load was until recently one that came off the trailer in transit- the problem is bloody poor drivers.
Hombre:
shep532:
Hombre:
At this rate there will be sod all allowed to be transported by road, VOSAs so called matrix is a load of cobblers (yes I have looked at it), all you would need on that load with the exception for my personal preference of a higher head bord would be 4 chains.If the were chains rated at 5t lashing capacity/rated assembly strength and the load was a 20t load then maybe so - with the higher headboard. But in this instance I am quite sure they are 2.5t ratchet assemblies (most are) and therefore not enough load restraint.
Personally I find chains are often loose once the load settles, whereby webbing straps retain the tension a lot better - but not always
The VOSA matrix is not a load of cobblers … it makes sense and also gives drivers and companies an idea what is required.
I dont know how long you have been driving lorries nor what type of loads you are familiar with, but I dont agree with you. Personally I have been in this job form over 30 years and have with the exception of tippers and car transporters moved pretty much everything.
Not so long ago that load may well have been just roped, coil just sat in the well, pallettised goods were roped and sheeted, as were/are many other types of load. Vosa’s load matrix is [zb] - if a load is going to go forwards backwards or sideways it will, regardless of how many straps, chains, cotton wool buds or blankets you wrap it in. What really matters is the way it is driven. Unfortunately too many drivers today rely on risk assesments and other garbage and just scoot off down the road in the beleif thaat because the book says its ok, it will be. The problem isnt insecure loadfs, an insecure load was until recently one that came off the trailer in transit- the problem is bloody poor drivers.
If that was right then they wouldn’t bother with bolting a truck body/tank to it’s chassis or with using twist locks on containers. 
dft.gov.uk/vosa/repository/M … 202012.pdf
Page 4 has the loading matrix on it. On the basis that part of the load was above the head board I reckon he could have had a prohibition had he been stopped.
Thanks for all the comments, think I’ll stick with the roll cages in a fridge.
For the lads who do steel section all the time, how do you load a full load of hollow section 7.5m long? We never used to put it up to the headboard as it would obviously overload the tractor unit, we used to set it back 10’ from the front, and never had any problems with it shooting forward. But now it seems if you load it that way it is more than 30cm from the front of the trailer so it will have a prohibition slapped on it. So how do you load it?
coiler:
For the lads who do steel section all the time, how do you load a full load of hollow section 7.5m long? We never used to put it up to the headboard as it would obviously overload the tractor unit, we used to set it back 10’ from the front, and never had any problems with it shooting forward. But now it seems if you load it that way it is more than 30cm from the front of the trailer so it will have a prohibition slapped on it. So how do you load it?
no doubt VOSA will say thats your problem, it seems they keep coming up with this crap all the time, yet never actually produce any solutions to the problems they cause. It is abundantly clear that this is just another money making exercise. i would love to know how you are supposed to secure groupage in a euroliner - any VOSA lovers got any ideas??
Hombre:
coiler:
For the lads who do steel section all the time, how do you load a full load of hollow section 7.5m long? We never used to put it up to the headboard as it would obviously overload the tractor unit, we used to set it back 10’ from the front, and never had any problems with it shooting forward. But now it seems if you load it that way it is more than 30cm from the front of the trailer so it will have a prohibition slapped on it. So how do you load it?no doubt VOSA will say thats your problem, it seems they keep coming up with this crap all the time, yet never actually produce any solutions to the problems they cause. It is abundantly clear that this is just another money making exercise. i would love to know how you are supposed to secure groupage in a euroliner - any VOSA lovers got any ideas??
I certainly wouldn’t class myself as a VOSA lover just because I agree with some of what they say. When it comes to load security it all makes sense. yes a lot of loads will be fine without any restraint and have been for thousands of trips and miles - until that one thing happens that wasn’t expected at which point a bad situation goes worse.
I nipped up to leeds today in terrible raining conditions on the M62. I saw some crazy driving standards from both car drivers and truck drivers and some clearly unsafe loads on flat bed trailers with one artic travelling around 3 feet from the car in front who was no further back from the car in front of him etc etc. From my position in the middle lane I saw the brake lights starting to come on ahead in the inside lane and this was clearly going to ripple back along the line to the artic with a dubious load … luckily I think he saw it coming and dropped back … but what if he hadn’t?
The post a few above with the picture of the steel tubes through the cab - he was fine until the school bus pulled across his path.
My mate “Boboneleg” has (as his nickname suggests) only one leg - he lost the other when his totally unrestrained load took his vehicle over when it shifted during an emergency manoeuver at a roundabout when a prat in a car pulled out.
A lad i know who has been carrying sheet steel for the last 20 years has just written off a Renault premium. One chain over two sheets weighing around 20t. Not paying attention - sudden brake lights - he slams on and the top steel sheet came through the cab having taken the headboard out, luckily veering to the near side taking the passenger seat with it out of the cab door. “Eeee … bin doin t’job for 20 years and that’s not 'appened before” he said … "I usually drive reet cautious like … " he didn’t seem to mind his boss forking out for a replacement cab
We can all discuss and agree or disagree all we like. You do what you want to do and I’ll do what I want to do. We all have our own opinions. clearly if these are shared with the authorities it automatically makes us wrong.
I no longer drive - haven’t done for many years but in the past have loaded and carried steel, plant equipment and even main battle tanks. I’ve lost a load on a public road - I did the “Ahh the weight’ll hold it, I’ll drive slow” routine. There’s nowt more embarrasing than blocking a main road for 3 hours waiting for someone to bring a forklift (never mind making the call to the boss) and just hoping the Police don’t turn up - which they did. Eee we had a right laugh about it … not 
As for your question regarding a groupage load in a euroliner … unfortunately yes it is ‘your’ problem. Certainly not VOSA’s or any other enforcement organisation. Any load can be secured/restrained or perhaps contained with the right equipment and that is where it all goes wrong. Drivers are often sent on the job with the wrong equipment - or no equipment which unfortunately places them in the firing line of the authorities.
A survey by the HSE & VOSA showed that around 80% of loads they checked and found to be unsafe - were then made safe by the driver with the equipment he had with him but had neglected to use.
There’s a HSE video with an accident reconstruction in it. The narrator is heard to say “You’ll hear drivers say this kind of thing never happens. Sadly you won’t hear from the ones who know it does”. that was relating to a driver crushed to death by his load within a mile of leaving the yard.
I’ll bow out of this discussion now. I’m not a driver so I’ll leave it to those that are and perhaps know better than me.
any movement in that steel will cut through those straps in a micro second, if your going to strap steel (which is an accepted way of restraining) then you need rubber between the steel and the strap to stop it cutting through.
I would have chained personally and if I had any dunnage used it to pack out the headboard- but thats just me having had a 20 tonne oiled and pickled coil slide down the well and then telescope I tend to go a bit overboard with lashings
Would this be the HSE who have created the totally risk averse society that the Uk has become, the same HSE who expect construction workers to wear hard hats on site which are being marked out - incase a seagull dies in flight and lands on someones head? The same HSE who banned poppy petals from being sprinkled over people at a remembrance parade a couple of years ago - the list is endless.
The UK haulage industry is fettered by many problems, over zealous licensing, ridiculously high fuel costs, business rates which would make a Russian oligarch wince, so what do the tossers at VOSA do - make up some more crap to screw people over with, and singularly fail to provide a single solution.
VOSA are a business which has to make a profit, to cover its operating costs. As such it can never be relied upon to have the interests of any other than itself at heart. it is there to make a profit, and make a profit it will - by screwing every last cent out of any haulier or driver unfortunate enought to get tangled in its insidious web
VOSA do not receive a single penny from roadside fines/fixed penalties - certainly not that I am aware of and i claim to have checked.
All fixed penalties, fines etc go to central government - not VOSA. I stand to be corrected though
I doubt very much the HSE stopped anyone throwing poppy petals etc. Some jumped up health & safety manager somewhere has interpreted some rule incorrectly or an insurance company would not accept the risk
shep532:
VOSA do not receive a single penny from roadside fines/fixed penalties - certainly not that I am aware of and i claim to have checked.All fixed penalties, fines etc go to central government - not VOSA. I stand to be corrected though
I doubt very much the HSE stopped anyone throwing poppy petals etc. Some jumped up health & safety manager somewhere has interpreted some rule incorrectly or an insurance company would not accept the risk
That is quite correct and I have the documents to prove it.
Self Funding does not mean the driver pays VOSA wages. All roadside penalties and fines go direct to the treasury
I also get the HSE bulletins sent to me and the funniest part is always the H&S myths about conkers, safety glasses, skis and poppies
Wheel Nut:
shep532:
VOSA do not receive a single penny from roadside fines/fixed penalties - certainly not that I am aware of and i claim to have checked.All fixed penalties, fines etc go to central government - not VOSA. I stand to be corrected though
I doubt very much the HSE stopped anyone throwing poppy petals etc. Some jumped up health & safety manager somewhere has interpreted some rule incorrectly or an insurance company would not accept the risk
That is quite correct and I have the documents to prove it.
Self Funding does not mean the driver pays VOSA wages. All roadside penalties and fines go direct to the treasury
I also get the HSE bulletins sent to me and the funniest part is always the H&S myths about conkers, safety glasses, skis and poppies
I don’t doubt either of you, about where the cash goes. I’d bet that the cash get marked down as VOSA generated and goes onto their ‘books’ as a profit though.
Simon:
Wheel Nut:
shep532:
VOSA do not receive a single penny from roadside fines/fixed penalties - certainly not that I am aware of and i claim to have checked.All fixed penalties, fines etc go to central government - not VOSA. I stand to be corrected though
I doubt very much the HSE stopped anyone throwing poppy petals etc. Some jumped up health & safety manager somewhere has interpreted some rule incorrectly or an insurance company would not accept the risk
That is quite correct and I have the documents to prove it.
Self Funding does not mean the driver pays VOSA wages. All roadside penalties and fines go direct to the treasury
I also get the HSE bulletins sent to me and the funniest part is always the H&S myths about conkers, safety glasses, skis and poppies
I don’t doubt either of you, about where the cash goes. I’d bet that the cash get marked down as VOSA generated and goes onto their ‘books’ as a profit though.
Simon.
We can call it Self Funding or by its more proper name of a Trading Fund
I sincerely doubt it matters whether that income is marked down as VOSA generated or is counted as raffle ticket receipts, it is all gathered up by George Osbourne and distributed as he sees fit.
I suppose like your tax contribution. George has no say in how you earn it but he expects you to give him about a third of it, and he will spend it on things he wants. You have no say in where it goes.
According to the DfT and VOSA, any “profits” that VOSA make come from the receipts for training, annual testing, licensing of MOT stations, both car and commercial, Authorised Test Facility (ATF) Single Vehicle Approvals, operator licence fees and PCV testing facilities.
Prior to the ATF, VOSA were losing money and had to close down a number of MOT stations, the ATF relieves them of that burden as the garage / operators already have those facility’s in place.
VOSA’s decision reflects the Government’s strategy to reduce its estate and the associated costs.
I had an interesting breakdown of VOSA penalties which showed in the year 2010/2011 they received just £830,000 from UK licence holders and operators out of a total of over £2,500,000 from foreign trucks.
In order of severity the top 5 offences were;
Excess Weight
Serious Brake Defects
Failing to keep tachograph cards/records
Insufficient weekly rest
Drivers view of road
None of which, any of us should condone!
One snippet relevant to these threads was that in the year 2009 / 2010 the amount of drivers fined for not having undergone the required initial driver CPC training amounted to THREE
The latest VOSA financial accounts available to me showed an operating loss of £13,000,000
Wheel Nut:
The latest VOSA financial accounts available to me showed an operating loss of £13,000,000
You’ve got to be very careful when considering anything VOSA tell you or purport as fact. Example…
From website…
About VOSA
The Vehicle and Operator Services Agency (VOSA) was formed on 1st April 2003
From business plan 2011/2012 (from same website)…
4 For 13 years VOSA has been working with DfT to undertake regular random checks of fleet compliance. Prohibition rates
identified through our most recent random check form the baseline for this measure, against which we will measure prohibition
rates that result from our targeted activities
They don’t even know what day it is, and i should know, i’ve been monitoring them for the last 15 years
Mike-C:
Wheel Nut:
The latest VOSA financial accounts available to me showed an operating loss of £13,000,000You’ve got to be very careful when considering anything VOSA tell you or purport as fact. Example…
From website…
About VOSA
The Vehicle and Operator Services Agency (VOSA) was formed on 1st April 2003From business plan 2011/2012 (from same website)…
4 For 13 years VOSA has been working with DfT to undertake regular random checks of fleet compliance. Prohibition rates
identified through our most recent random check form the baseline for this measure, against which we will measure prohibition
rates that result from our targeted activitiesThey don’t even know what day it is, and i should know, i’ve been monitoring them for the last 15 years
April Fools!
Although I did get my information from the Freedom of Information people, who probably got it from VOSA 
Before VOSA, we had the Vehicle Inspectorate (Vi) and Transport Area Network (TAN) but I still refer to them as “The Ministry” or DOT
I could cope with them when they were the “ministry” as in my experience the ones I had dealings with were in the main knowledgeable and reasonably fair.
I witnessed an example of VOSAs lack of knowledge and unreasonable behaviour which occurred in Poole docks when they controlled a load of lorries coming off the Santander boat. A VOSA operative inspected an artic and decided that the only thing he could find wrong was that “…the ABS lead clip is incorrectly applied”. So he issued a GV9 against the vehicle until the fault was corrected. As many readers will know it is impossible for the ABS lead clip to be incorrectly applied - it is either locked on and the plug is in the socket, or its unlocked and the plug is out of the socket, it cannot physically due to its nature be half on, half off.
Since becoming VOSA they have employed a good many people straight from the street with little or no knowledge of the haulage industry and trucks generally. A good number of their “officers” have been on a couple of weeks course and are then sent out to contril trucks. Add to the distinct lack of knowledge and mechanical sympathy the draconian powers with which they are now imbued, a substantial majority of jobsworths and the need to be “self financing” you end up with what we have now - basically a group of dictatorial little turds. As some one once said “Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely”.
it’s very true, when it was the ministry things were very different.
they were all time served mechanics that knew there stuff from experience, and not from a book.
Firstly, a thought on that load. I would much prefer to use chains and check them after the first few miles and then frequently. If forced to use straps there is no way I would turn a wheel without something substantial between them and the steel.
But the main thing which concerns me is the headboard, as others have said. Not just the height but also (and I can’t see clearly enough myself) if the steel isn’t in contact with it. I always worked on the principle that if something has a chance to start moving then there is also a very good chance that little will stop it. If it can be prevented from starting its journey then there is a very good chance it won’t set off.
It is many years since I carried steel, but back in the day I did a lot of it (young and fit I didn’t need the exercise and hated handball ) and often thought what a good idea it would be if someone could invent a movable headboard fixed in place by the sort of posts used to prevent sideways movement. Did someone get round to doing something like that? If not then that is yet another chance I missed. 