can you let us know the out come of this, one got me on the east lancs (A580) not sure if it fired or not, basically the lights changed I saw the camera and slammed on, the cab ended up past the line with the back bumper basically on it and 6 smokeing wheels on the trailer, so much for ABS and I hope my boss ain’t reading this. I hate playing the waiting game, got to see my first 3D film at the cinema thou to take my mind off it - certainly alot better than the old red and blue glasses you used to wear!
dukeofdirt:
You’ve got 2 weeks for them to send you a letter mate any longer than that and it’s void!
Rubbish !!! They must inform the Registered Keeper within 2 weeks NOT the Driver
Davey Driver:
dukeofdirt:
You’ve got 2 weeks for them to send you a letter mate any longer than that and it’s void!Rubbish !!! They must inform the Registered Keeper within 2 weeks NOT the Driver
Orys was in his car
One might’ve got me last night.
From the feel of it, I was fully loaded. Wet road, numpty up arse and light just turned to yellow but I wasn’t really close to it, went red about when all of the unit was over the line.
If I’d jumped on the brakes I’m sure the car behind wouldn’t have stopped in time. ■■■■ happens I suppose.
darkseeker:
One might’ve got me last night.From the feel of it, I was fully loaded. Wet road, numpty up arse and light just turned to yellow but I wasn’t really close to it, went red about when all of the unit was over the line.
If I’d jumped on the brakes I’m sure the car behind wouldn’t have stopped in time. [zb] happens I suppose.
Stuff the car behind fella! You’re at the safe end. The lesson he’d perhaps learn may, just may save the lives of a couple of kids sat in the back of their car at a later date.
Pmsl, I’d do that sort of thing if I was sure I could get away with it.
So the letter to the registered keeper is in.
But no pics. I wanna see my pic 
What I should do?
I am going to Croatia today, will deal with it on my return…
Ok, so I promised to give you the follow up on the story.
So THE VICTORY IS MINE… Ehm, in fact it’s not really a victory, as I was found guilty but due to the special circumstances, the court decided to do not endorse me or give me any penalties and just sent me home. After all everything I was interested it was to do not be fined or awarded with some points, so as it happened, I consider it a victory 
As for the particulars:
First I was send fixed penalty offer which I, off course, ignored.
Then I got citation to the court asking me to provide explanation if I wish to.
I wrote them a letter as below:
my letter to procurator fiscal:
WRITTEN EXPLANATION
of situation on the Bath Street at 1130 hours on 29 September 2010.On that day and that date I, Orys, while driving maroon Daihatsu Sirion SG09ABC DID NOT failed to comply with the indication to stop given by a traffic sign and I am sure that closed examination of the evidence will prove that. I would like to mention that I am a proffessional driver, who never had any points on my license, nor in Britain, nor in Poland, as due to my work attitude, training and vast experience, despite my relatively young age, I am fully aware of need of responsibility while on the road. I do some mistakes, as we all do, it’s a human thing, but I am not doing any stupid, reckless or irresponsible things while behind the wheel. That’s why I don’t “jump” the junctions on the red light and that’s the reason why this allegation is a mistake.
However it is true that I stopped after the painted lane, for good reason explained below, I stopped before the junction itself, so it can’t be true that Redspeed red light offence detection camera made a picture showing “vehicle continued through the junction” as that never happened. Well, at least not until the lights on the junction turned green for the direction I was travelling to. I never seen the pictures in question, I was only sent “summary of evidence” where it’s stated that police witness Mr Policeman viewed the alleged offence. I am sure though, that closer look to picture will show my vehicle stopping or stationary - I guess that it will be easy to see not only from the change of vehicle’s position between pictures one and two, but also from the stop lights displayed at the rear of my vehicle. It is obvious that someone willing to “jump” over the junction on the red light would not brake while doing this. Therefore I plead not guilty on the charge of “failing to comply with the indication to stop given by a traffic sign” as I stopped, only few metres further than the painted line.
There was a genuine reason why I stopped further down the road than I should. It was caused by the situation on the road at this time. Before I start to describe that situation, I would like to mention, that I was a victim of the road accident on 8th of February 2008 when I stopped for the red light and vehicle behind me failed to stop and hit the back of my car, causing a whiplash and spinal problems, which then caused a lot of difficulties in my life. Some results of that accident I feel till today. I think that it is understandable why from that time on I am always paying a lot of attention to what’s going on behind me when I am stopping for the red light or other similar situations. That should explain unusual awareness of what’s going on behind me.
On the evening of 29th September 2010, I was travelling west on Bath street, I don’t remember now if I was heading to my work, or to visit my friend, I hope it’s not relevant. Bath street is a one way street and has four lanes, but two of them are used for parking, so only two middle lanes are actually used for traffic. At this date there was some kind of road works on the yellow box causing that only left lane of two middle lanes could go through junction and vehicles going right of the two middle lanes had to change direction to go around the obstruction.
For further explanation I will be considering only two middle lanes, refering “left lane” to “left of two middle lanes” and “right lane” to “right of two middle lanes”. On the pictures I made, the obstruction on the junction is marked with number 1, my car is marked with number 2, car from the right lane is marked with number 3 and car following me is marked with number 4. Direction of vehicles movements are shown with the arrows and broken arrow indicates vehicle braking/slowing down while full line shows constant speed or acceleration.
I was driving on left lane, I had car 4 following me, and car 3 a bit behind me on the right lane (see fig. 1). I saw the light changing so I started to slow down and lokked at the mirror as I always do since my accident. I then noticed car on the right lane trying to cut in front of the car behind me. He propably noticed obstruction on the junction and decided to change the lane (see fig. 2). In the same time I noticed that car 4 is closing to me — maybe because I was already slowing down and he did not commenced that maneuvre, or maybe he was accelerating to do not allow vehicle 3 to cut in front of him. Anyway I noticed that vehicle 3 is too close to me and I estimated that vehicle 4 might be also too close to him. I felt that they can hit me in my back, so I aborted slowing down and slightly accelerated to extend distance between me and following vehicles and braked again when I considered distance to be safe. (see fig. 3) Unfortunately that meant that I won’t be able to finish my manuevre before the painted line and I finished it after it, on the piezoelectric sensors which activated red light camera (see fig. 4). If I remember correctly, the camera was activated when I was almost stopped or stationary.
I am aware that painted line is there for a reason and I should stop before it, but according to my judgement it was a question of me stopping after the painted line, or me stopping before it and then being pushed across it by the impact from behind. In my judgement I would end on that place anyway, so it was just a choice between having another whiplash and car damaged or avoiding the accident. I consider that incident as a situation when driver has to broke some written rule to prevent bigger evil from happening — for example when the driver has to go the right side of the road to avoid hitting a pedestrian.
To conclude: I am pleading not guilty of failure to stop for the red light and I hope that situation on the road at the time of that incident is a reasonable excuse for that I stopped a few metres further from the indicated place.
Please take my apologies for quality of the pictures. I made them myself on the computer but I am not an expert in computer graphic. I hope though that there are conclusive enough to explain the situation described in that letter.
Orys
Glasgow, 21 February 2011.
There were off course appropriate drawings, but I don’t have them saved as a picture, they are only in the text document, so I won’t play with it to post them here - too much hassle. You got the idea already.
First trial was only about asking me if I plead guilty. I pleaded not, so I was given the dates of intermediate trial and the proper trial and sent home.
On the intermediate trial the Procurator Fiscal found that they do not have a pictures. Court wanted to set another intermediate trial to give me a chance to see the pics, but I told that I am sure they don’t have pic of “me continuint through the junction” so I am OK with just going to the main trial, as long as Procurator Fiscal will provide the pictures at this date.
So this date was today. The whole morning the court was dealing with other cases, so I was left to be dealt with in the afternoon.
During the lunch brake, the Procurator (a different lady than before) came to me and said that she had read my letter and she found it explaining everything well. She said that I am propably not aware of the proceedings, as I was defending myself, so as she wants me to have a fair trial, she made some copies of it and if I agree, she will provide my letter to the court as a evidence of the defence. I thanked her, as I was expecting that it will be all in the file already so I never thought about it (that’s the difference between Polish, legalistic law system, when everything has to go on file, and anglo-american opportunistic system, when only relevant information has to be provided by the sides. I just learned it today after I did some reading, so I am glad I learned something new.).
Then the procedures were well explained to me by His Honour.
Then she called the first witness. The police witness Mr Policeman, who was then asked by her about everything how the cameras works. Then, to my surprise she asked him questions I was going to ask, trying to find if the camera can show the things were going behind me if the vehicles did not crossed the line. He gave her the answers I needed.
Then it was my turn to ask questions: as he said I was driving 19 mph at the moment of first picture, I wanted to know what’s the time gap between the pics to prove that I was actually slowing down (my stop lights were clearly visible on all three pictures, but I believe there is no thing like “too much supporting evidence”). He said it’s 0.001 sec. That made me confused, so I asked him how it’s possible that I moved about 4 metres ( my car lenght) during such a short time. He said it’s not 4 metres, it’s 1, max 1,5 metres.
Well, 1 metre per 0.001 sec, that’s 1 km per second, that’s 3600 km/h (2000 mph). I wish I had so quick car
As I noticed that court is already looking strangely at the police witness, I decided that this is enough to prove that the guy actually is just a robot, who prints out the pictures and do not think on them at all, so I decided I have no more questions.
Then there was a second witness, a girl (nice looking 
) who sends out the documents. Procurator asked her for all procedural things and It was explained. I only asked her how much time I had to response and if I made any delays, to prove that I was playing fair all the time.
Then it was time for my statement. I excersized my rationalist’s right to make an affirmation instead of swearing on almighty God ( I love Britain for that: it’s a church state and there is much more religion freedom than in laic Poland!) and then pointed again the Police Witness’s mistake and then repeated briefly everything from the letter, adding some extra bits of informations here and there.
Then there were final speeches. The procurator fiscal said nothing about quilt, and she asked court if he can apply special circumstances to me. Who needs to fork out cash for the parrot if you can have procurator working for you for free? 
So I only stressed again that although I did a minor offence of crossing the line, there was no harm or risk done to anyone, as I stopped right after it, and if I followed alternative course of action, that means stopped in front of the line, the risk of the accident would be significant.
HIs honour with the assesor went to their room to work up the verdict and after they came back they said that although they have to find me guilty as it’s fact I crossed the line and failed to stop in front of it, I had genuine reasons and because of that they will apply special circumstances to me, finding that I did it to avoid the accident and therefore they will not endorse my license or anything and I am free to go. I asked if there is nothing to pay, as I expected that there migt be some legal costs involved, but I was just told to have a nice day. So I do
I think it was really nice - procurator was doing her job properly, but at the same time I felt she was playing in my team and the Court Official was openly supporting me - as I could say from our chats during the breaks That’s what I call “friendly justice system”
So that’s for my experience, maybe someone will find that useful.
Thank you for reading this too long post if you made it so far
ebabes:
man I hate them things, I got flashed crossing the line to let an ambulance though, I tried to fight it but just got told that a red light means stop and that I should of on moved out of the way of the ambulance when it is safe and legal.
The Cop who was witnessing in my case, answering to the questions of PF said that if someone moves forward to let the ambulance pass, they got obviously another set of the pics made after ambulance has driven on the piezoelectric sensors and therefore they do not pursue such a driver. So it’s strange that they chased you, as I would do exactly the same that you do to let the ambulance pass (and, in fact, I did it several times).
Nice one Orys, great result.
you can opt do do an online red light awarness coarse or go to a centre and do one.
You still have to pay the £60 fine but you dont get the 3 points.
To be honest it’s easy,telling you things you already know,a bit patronising.
forgot to say,you can only do the coarse if it’s your first offence.
TTX boy:
you can opt do do an online red light awarness coarse or go to a centre and do one.
You still have to pay the £60 fine but you dont get the 3 points.
To be honest it’s easy,telling you things you already know,a bit patronising.
forgot to say,you can only do the coarse if it’s your first offence.
Well, thanks, good to know, but I don’t need it - I am guilty, but nothing endorsed on me due to the special circumstances - I crossed the line to avoid being hit in the back.
Nice to hear it had a happy ending, and I liked it because they sort of gave you the benefit and looked into it instead of just saying tough luck you’re guilty.
orys:
Today.I was driving and there were some roadworks on the junction and from both lanes there was only space for one car to go across. I heard some horns and reeving so looked to my mirror and saw two cars cutting one in front of another, wanting to go first behind me… I was worried that they will hit me in the back, so I accelerated, looked forward and saw that the red light, so braked, sharply but still with consideration to the two idiots behind me, I did not wanted them to end in my arse.
In the effect I stopped, but I passed the line and I ended on the pedestrian crossing (I did not even entered the crosswise carriageway, but I DID entered the pedestrian crossing).
There were four flashes from the red light camera.
Should I be worried now?
And if they will send me a ticket, can I fight it saying that I crossed the line but never get onto actual junction?
The same thing happened to me a couple of years ago in the early hours, I was going downhill loaded when the lights changed I had no chance of stopping and I triggered the camera.
it flashed twice when I had just stopped. I got talking to a friend of mine who is a taxi driver and he said this had happened to him on a number of occasions and he had not received a penalty notice, and neither did I, good luck.
Well done Orys 
, whether its speed cameras or the traffic light versions, the lazy [zb]s just send out the NIP’s regardless without really considering what their evidence is, encouraged by the fact most people just roll over and pay the fine which doesn’t really discourage the swindling [zb]'s to do any work. Fortunately they sometimes lose cases they’ve insisted on pursuing, resulting in the CPS giving them a good bollocking for wasting public money in court costs .
Who needs to fork out cash for the parrot if you can have procurator working for you for free?
Couldn’t agree more Orys! Good result.
Indeed. Excellent result and a well written document, despite English not being your first language. I know people who have been born in the UK that couldn’t write that well 
One of the things drummed into me during my bus driving period was that after every incident I wrote up my incident report, and if necessary took photos of the site of the incident (without getting run over) as well as keeping my own notes over it.
So Congrats Orys
So in summary, all you need to do is send a TL;DR to the court where they’re read the first couple of lines and then just along with the rest of your “evidence” which they don’t bother to read, then half an hour later you find yourself free to go with no charge.
Rob K:
So in summary, all you need to do is send a TL;DR to the court where they’re read the first couple of lines and then just along with the rest of your “evidence” which they don’t bother to read, then half an hour later you find yourself free to go with no charge.
Not really. They were reading it all - this is how the court work, they have to know the evidence.
Off course you don’t have to read it, but then, if you did, maybe you won’t write stupid things about it
orys:
Rob K:
So in summary, all you need to do is send a TL;DR to the court where they’re read the first couple of lines and then just along with the rest of your “evidence” which they don’t bother to read, then half an hour later you find yourself free to go with no charge.Not really. They were reading it all - this is how the court work, they have to know the evidence.
Off course you don’t have to read it, but then, if you did, maybe you won’t write stupid things about it
I say congrats for getting off, but re the above you have a lot to learn (discover?) about the British justice system…
Call me a sceptic if you wish, but I have my doubts that the outcome would have been the same if you had been of British origin…