Red Airline Question

[truckulent]

switchlogic:

Truckulent:

kr79:

switchlogic:
Didn’t realise this could happen. But then thankfully I drive a Scania and that pops it into neutral when you stop the engine. I feel sorry for you poor peasants in your cheap nasty lorries…

It’s those little touches that make scanias better than the rest.

Yeh…Like having a clutch that is completely pointless…if you have an auto box fitted that works properly…

And switches in random places …

Good old Skoda…

Who’s got a clutch? I haven’t. I think we were pointing out that Scania autos do work properly

Plenty of Skodas have a semi auto transmission and it’s utterly ■■■■■■

Auto boxes are OK on Scania but not as good as the Volvo/Renault offering…

[switchlogic]

I drove a semi auto one for a couple of weeks at the beginning of the year and found it perfectly up to the job. But then I don’t feel the need to bash Scanias all the time and call them silly names.

[harry_monk]

Own Account Driver:
Test point adapters and length of hose are the way to go, and you could use air from trailer tanks that way. I’ve made all the various air couplings to standard workshop air tool bayonet connectors so I can interchange and only keep one length of air hose that will reach right round the truck. I’m out at the moment but will try and remember to post pics of what you need when I get back to the workshop.

Thanks, that would be appreciated.

[saaamon]

limeyphil:
0

lol, thats so funny!

[nearly_there]

It happened to me in a man truck. I was doing a blind side reverse but being new to artics at the time took loads of shunts. I must have had a air leak somewhere as when I went to move away it stalled, being a auto I was shocked. I had to wait for a mechanic from toms to fix it by putting air from a compresser into the tanks. It took about 10 minutes to get enough air for the gear selector to click into place

[fallmonk]

Happened to me for a about a month merc struggled to fix fault (nothing new there )
nightshift would park it up still in gear. I would come in and would have no air , thankfully my MP2 still has the clutch i managed to start it up in gear but probably took a year off the clutch!!!
It was never a option to us as we only have one unit but was thinking is using another unit a possibility to free you ?
ie plug each others suzzies in to each other ? let the “good” unit put air into the unit with no air ■■?

[shropsbri]

billybigrig:
H you’re overthinking it. They pop into neutral when you switch off. They won’t start if the selector is not in neutral. I often find my I shift in gear and air down at zero after the boss had been moving it around or washing it for me.

Is that in a Renault though Billy as our premiums can be switched off in gear.

[richmond]

hi guys, for once i have the answer, firstly from my own experiance i can say that volvos will start whilst been left in gear when the air drops, and secondly mans wont! Go onto e bay there is a fella selling a tyre inflator that goes on a red airline, not the type that you get with a truck, this is a proper good one in a bag, buy one of them, then make up an adaptor to go from a tyre type of valve to a schrader type valve, sorted, By the way we are going back to manuals now, just cos there simpler to fix, and maintain, and if ya cant use one, your probably not for our crew anyway !/**.

[billybigrig]

ShropsBri:

billybigrig:
H you’re overthinking it. They pop into neutral when you switch off. They won’t start if the selector is not in neutral. I often find my I shift in gear and air down at zero after the boss had been moving it around or washing it for me.

Is that in a Renault though Billy as our premiums can be switched off in gear.

Volvo mate but I’ve had the same experience at a previous place with my Premium being left in gear by night shunter

[truckulent]

switchlogic:
I drove a semi auto one for a couple of weeks at the beginning of the year and found it perfectly up to the job. But then I don’t feel the need to bash Scanias all the time and call them silly names.

Me neither…the Holy Grail of trucking a Scania is…

[newmercman]

I had an FH with I Shift, the fitter gave me a male air coupling just in case it lost air while in gear, don’t have a clue where it went, I’m assuming the coupling that blows the brakes off so it could be towed, but as I never left it in gear and turned it off it wasn’t an issue for me

[harry_monk]

Panic averted, I’m in the truck now, I had left it in gear and the air had gone down but it started anyway.

[big_joe]

switchlogic:
Didn’t realise this could happen. But then thankfully I drive a Scania and that pops it into neutral when you stop the engine. I feel sorry for you poor peasants in your cheap nasty lorries…

I’ve a fully auto Merc, and it also pops into neutral when ever the ignition is turned off so

[cieranc]

Good stuff Harry, BUT>>>>>>> the problem doesn’t happen when the truck is parked up, as said if you switch the ignition off it pops into neutral.

The problem happens when the truck is running, but the air goes down quickly (airbag, chamber, suzie probelm).

The sollys need a good amount of air pressure to shift the gear solenoids, if the air goes down quickly before you can switch it into neutral/switch the ingition off, you’ll be stuck in gear.

Unless you’re actually watching the air gagues when the problem occurs, the first you’ll know is the low air pressure warning comes on the dash, by then it’s too late.

You won’t fill a unit with enough air from a tyre.

On modern units, the red suzie is fed from the trailer relay valve. So back-feeding the red suzie from another unit won’t work.

But… get an airline made with a male ‘C’ coupling end on one end, and a test point adapter on the other end, red suzie from donor unit straight into test point on unit.

On the wreckers, we carry boxes of suzie adapters for all occasions.

[rusty_nail]

I’ve had experience of mercs, dafs, man’s and renaults all losing air pressure whilst in gear and then not starting.

The solution is easy and has already been mentioned and that is to have an airline with a test point coupling either end so you can go straight from one truck to another using either air tanks or the proper charge points.

Charge point locations vary but here’s some of them.

Daf lf sereies are on the air drier behind the n/s/f wheel arch
Daf cf series are again behind the n/s/f wheel arch but they are just a test point, no air drier nearby. There are some exceptions with the newer cf’s. The newer 42’s that Waitrose run for example don’t have the test point behind the wheel arch, you can go straight into the tanks at the rear of the chassis or into the air drier which has been re-located under the fifth wheel.
95xf’s are behind the n/s/sf wheel arch
105’s are normally behind the wheel arch again but the 42’s tend to have a test point on the o/s of the rear most chassis crossmember or again as with the newer cf’s the rear tanks should charge the whole system

Merc atego/axor/econic rigids are all on the air drier on the n/s of the vehicle’s chassis
Axor/actros artics have the air drier under the fifth wheel. If it’s a solo tractor unit with a short catwalk the test point is easily reached from above, if not then you’ll have to get underneath to get at it. However if the air’s low and the suspension has dropped it’ll be tight!

With the man’s the test points vary.
The older tga’s/tgm’s tend to have a test point under the bonnett with a red cap on it
The newer one’s tend to have a bank of test points all together normally on the n/s. Again the one with the red cap or IN stamped on the metal plate beside it. This tends to be the case with the tgx’s and the new tgm’s aswell . The actually test points can be different on an man though, they can be inverted. If this is the case then you need to aqquire the correct fitting or go into an air tank alternatively.

Renault’s can be a pain in the backside.
Th older premiums i use air tanks and hope for the best. The older magnums have test points behind the corner panels of the cab. There are 3 there normally. But the only ones i’ve had problems with are the one’s with the volvo box in them. Again you can try the air tanks on both the premium and the magnum. But the official charge point is in the n/s chassis rail and it’s blanked off with an allen key plug. This needs to be taken out and physically replaced with a test point before the air can be charged. There is sometimes a schraeder valve also but i’ve never had any success with these.

Hope this helps someone at some point!

[own_account_driver]

Ok, for anyone who’s interested I’ve in any case uploaded various images of different air connectors that are useful with lorries and cheap and easy to make up. What I tend to do is keep one long airline that will reach right round an artic and then connect to it whatever connectors/adapters I need at the time.

I will try and find links to parts websites or ebay for any particular part when I’ve got time.

This is what the test points on the truck look like they will usually be located near the air drier, if not available you may have to install your own which isn’t really too difficult usually:

If you get two of the screw on adapters pictured below and push them into a sufficient length of hose and secure with hose clips you can fill one truck with air from another:

Alternatively just use a short length of hose and put a workshop bayonet type male air connector one end which means you can attach it to a universal hose (as mentioned earlier) or a workshop compressor:

Also you could put it into a connector like this and attach it to the red airline of any unit (more details further down of how to make this connector):

This is the same type of connector but this one goes into a test point as you can inflate tyres etc from there instead of the red susie or on a rigid if you wanted to (I would have both options available personally):

This is an example of the sort of thing you can attach to either the red airline or test point adapters that were immediately above, this is an expensive workshop inflator just for example you wouldn’t need as expensive one for the cab but I would, whatever sort you get, recommend adapting it so you can inflate without needing to be immediately next to the tyre wall for safety. You could also attach any number of air tools like impact wrench, grinder, air operated bottle jack etc:

Ignoring the above two adpater designs with built in hose I would have one long master airline with the two following bayonet workshop type female couplings both ends:

This is how you would make the adapter to connect to the red susie and use with the above airline. It’s a 1/2 BSP C male coupling 1/2 male to 1/4 female reducer then to a 1/4 male bayonet connector. You can get 1/2 male bayonet connectors and not need the reducer. Note, some C couplings are M22 and you will need an M22 to 1/4 reducer in that case.

This is is together you will need to use thread tape and possibly a dowty washer (both pictured) to get a good airtight fit. You can then use it with your universal airline with a female connector each end and 2x testpoint adapters discussed at the top to give you a wide number of options of getting air out of one truck and into another:

[own_account_driver]

Another two.

This is a female C coupling connector to male bayonet. It could be used with the above to put air into a trailer either from a test point, another unit, workshop compressor etc:

This is a cheap inflator with a cable-tie modification so it can be used without having to stand there holding the trigger:

I would add that if you are going to want to use a 1" impact wrench off the red airline I would do a male C coupling straight to a 1/2 BSP hose straight into the wrench as those bayonet connectors will restrict airflow to the wrench with a loss of torque. If you put a connector on the wrench to disconnect it from the hose use a PCL hiflow one.

[harry_monk]

Very helpful info and photos, thanks for taking the time to post that.

[starfighter]

I have known of an FM12 with I-shift that had to have air pumped into the tanks after it dropped the air after being left in gear. Usually even if the air has dropped they do start if they were left in gear though. Is it really so difficult to put it back into neutral though?

[wheel_nut]

Harry Monk:
Very helpful info and photos, thanks for taking the time to post that.

To derail this thread slightly and then put it back on track.

I was sent to Friedrichshaven to ZF where they once made Zeppelin airships & balloons, they now make gearboxes. My instructions were to load two fully specced Range Rovers to go on a two car covered carrier like this. After a bit of shuffling I managed to get the first one on board and high enough to get the other one below it. I then secured the wheels and the ramps etc. Most of these jobs take place in a secure compound, away from prying journalists with cameras. On this particular occasion they let me load in an empty hanger, and Fritz brought me the two prototypes round. I never thought twice about it, both were left running.

This was a new 4 speed automatic gearbox that was being developed, the cars had air suspension which helped me get them low enough to avoid fouling the roof. Great job. I had a couple of days before I was due to unload in Gaydon and had a weekend to kill. So Monday morning I turned up at Land Rovers test track and dropped my doors and ramps, took my wheel straps off and!!! What had I missed, an immobiliser, a safety cutout, something not right, the key fob was dead, the doors were locked, the cars were both in park and I couldn’t open the bonnets for either the roof or the ramp. The technical staff came out and scratched their heads, they kept scratching them, we tried using wafer thin technicians with long arms to try to get a jump lead onto the starter motor solenoid. We trickled a bit of power in, but only enough to get the doors open, but still they wouldn’t start. We could not tow them off as they were locked in park

Eventually a call was made to ZF who said there was a bung on the side of the gearbox, behind this was a diagnostic test point, and we needed to force oil into it. A couple of bodged pipes and a thin technician again, they used a grease gun, the click was the best sound we had heard all morning… After removing said thin technician. I jumped in the car and it freewheeled down my ramps. The second one was simple, we just jumped it off normally once we could open the bonnet.

So all those little bits of pipe, off cuts, threaded caps and a bit of ingenious manufacturing are necessary in any drivers toolbox.

Now Harry, where were we?