I think this last post is a product of “tongue in cheek” poetic licence ! Bewick. 
Would you like me to remove it Dennis. 
mushroomman:
Would you like me to remove it Dennis.
Certainly not “MM” it takes all kinds of posts to make a thread and attract the varied comments ! and besides I’m no Mod ! 
Cheers Dennis.
There were a number of reasons why I decided to post that story on this thread even though it was such a long time ago. For a start Dennis we are all aware that you, R.O.F. Gingerfold, Larry Dumbar, Harry Gill, John West and probably a number of other Trucknet members who are still with us who used to go over Shap and use the A6 in the sixties might of heard something about the accident. You have got to admit that if you saw an accident with three vehicles from the same company somebody might of mentioned something. I also know that as you and John know the area very well that a local garage may of been involved with the recovery. I realise it’s just a very loooooooong shot but you never know what response you might get back on a site like this.
As I mentioned that I can’t remember if it was McKelvie’s or Smith’s of Maddison who Ken was working for at the time I was hoping that one of the McKelvie’s or one of the Smith’s driver on the site may of heard something about it or even knew if transport companies did employ university students during the summer holidays.
And if anybody thinks that Ken was probably winding me up then he had no reason to at the time and that’s why I thought that I would mention it just in case somebody could remember something from over fifty years ago.
Well “MM” you are sorely tempting me to say what I really think about your tale ! I’ve heard of Students doing all kinds of menial holiday jobs but never letting them loose with a loaded motor or any HGV for that matter even in the days of no HGV licences ! And as I was a personal friend of James Smith I cannot in my wildest dreams accept that he or his brother would allow any such lunacy to take place in any case, unless they had taken leave of their senses which I know would never have been the case. I can’t comment on McKelvies but I would guess the same would apply ! Obviously you are entitled to believe the tales you are told but I would respectfully suggest that the scenario you describe is stretching the bounds of reality to their limits ! Hopefully other TN members will join in the debate. Cheers Dennis.
I wasn’t going to comment but, Dennis, you have made the very point that I myself was thinking. I couldn’t believe that two such well regarded and professional haulage companies as Smiths and McKelvies would have thrown in at the deep end entirely novice and inexperienced drivers. I would like to think that this tale is one that is a figment of someone’s imagination, and that is not disparaging towards the poster, he is probably re-telling in good faith something that he had been told.
gingerfold:
I wasn’t going to comment but, Dennis, you have made the very point that I myself was thinking. I couldn’t believe that two such well regarded and professional haulage companies as Smiths and McKelvies would have thrown in at the deep end entirely novice and inexperienced drivers. I would like to think that this tale is one that is a figment of someone’s imagination, and that is not disparaging towards the poster, he is probably re-telling in good faith something that he had been told.
I can’t comment on those companies but a colleague of mine was in Hansons (Wakefield) yard one day in the sixties chatting to the gaffer himself when a chap came in looking for a driving job. He just pointed to a loaded tipper bound for Manchester and told him to take that, my friend was asked to let the chap follow him. Going down Woodhead the ‘new guy’ flew past him and a mile down the road the truck was on its side! Apparently he only passed his car test two days before and ‘lost it’ big style. Minor injuries and no job! Nobody looked at his license so big companies did let some untrained drivers slip through the net.
Pete.
On a similar note to Gingerfold, one of my “jobs” (no extra pay!) was to take new recruits with me for a couple of days to show them the tricks of the trade, including making sure that they were able to strap, rope & sheet various multi-drop loads of steel sections.
One morning a new starter turned up in the yard, watched as I checked the vehicle and load and fastened it, taking particular care to show him the ways of securing the different lengths and sections of steel.
On the way to our first drop my new pal and I fell into conversation about his previous driving experience. It didn’t take long to ascertain that he was nineteen years old, had passed his car driving test two months earlier and assumed that driving a lorry couldn’t be much different from driving the Transit van that he had borrowed the previous weekend. He hadn’t even heard of an HGV/LGV licence!
After some diplomatic education from yours truly, he enjoyed a ride around the North West for the rest of the day, after which we called at the office where I found out which numpty had taken the chap on without even enquiring about his experience or qualifications.
At Waughs Ken Lancaster (the Duke) had a foolproof way of checking if a driver could handle an artic. Although by then (early seventies) the HGV licence had been in use a couple of years, new faces needed to be assessed. We had a lot of Carnation Milk in storage and on trailers in the yard and the warehouseman Tommy Hardy didn’t drive any lorries, the w/house doors were very narrow and the yard was very congested 
if you could reverse in through the doors with a loaded trailer and an Atki without power steering in a reasonable timeframe you were in with a chance of a job. Unfortunately even if there wasn’t a job available Ken often got candidates to shunt these trailers as it saved him calling a regular driver off another job to the business. 
Ps if you got in that shed in one go first time you were good at your job. Regards Kev.
Bewick:
Well “MM” you are sorely tempting me to say what I really think about your tale ! I’ve heard of Students doing all kinds of menial holiday jobs but never letting them loose with a loaded motor or any HGV for that matter even in the days of no HGV licences ! And as I was a personal friend of James Smith I cannot in my wildest dreams accept that he or his brother would allow any such lunacy to take place in any case, unless they had taken leave of their senses which I know would never have been the case. I can’t comment on McKelvies but I would guess the same would apply ! Obviously you are entitled to believe the tales you are told but I would respectfully suggest that the scenario you describe is stretching the bounds of reality to their limits ! Hopefully other TN members will join in the debate. Cheers Dennis.
Hello Dennis, I never intended to upset or offend anybody with that post and if I did then I apologise. I remember Ken telling me that he was working for a company in Cheetham Hill at the time and it sounds like I have obviously mentioned the wrong company.
I will amend my original post straight away.
Regards Steve.
Brilliant thread guys,keep the storys and pics coming,i am too young ( born in 54 ) to have experianced the hey days off driving over shap,i remember the old 66 from Scotch corner,and did drive over shap a few times just to see it instead of going the motorway,
It was a different world then, i used to look forwards to a Scotch run,less traffic and fantastic scenery,before i started doing Continental full time i did Glasgow fruit market for a grower just north of Hull,good old days,
mushroomman:
Bewick:
Well “MM” you are sorely tempting me to say what I really think about your tale ! I’ve heard of Students doing all kinds of menial holiday jobs but never letting them loose with a loaded motor or any HGV for that matter even in the days of no HGV licences ! And as I was a personal friend of James Smith I cannot in my wildest dreams accept that he or his brother would allow any such lunacy to take place in any case, unless they had taken leave of their senses which I know would never have been the case. I can’t comment on McKelvies but I would guess the same would apply ! Obviously you are entitled to believe the tales you are told but I would respectfully suggest that the scenario you describe is stretching the bounds of reality to their limits ! Hopefully other TN members will join in the debate. Cheers Dennis.Hello Dennis, I never intended to upset or offend anybody with that post and if I did then I apologise. I remember Ken telling me that he was working for a company in Cheetham Hill at the time and it sounds like I have obviously mentioned the wrong company.
I will amend my original post straight away.Regards Steve.
Now then Steve you are free to post what you want to, which may or may not draw comments from other members, but hey the transport industry always thrived on “tall” tales of which 99% were usually a load of bollox but that is not to say most of them were highly amusing and just “craic” which is always rife when a group of Drivers get together in the Caff, in the Yard and particularly in the boozer when the “tales” become even more incredible in line with the quantity of liquid refreshment that is supped ! Cheers Dennis.
kevmac47:
At Waughs Ken Lancaster (the Duke) had a foolproof way of checking if a driver could handle an artic. Although by then (early seventies) the HGV licence had been in use a couple of years, new faces needed to be assessed. We had a lot of Carnation Milk in storage and on trailers in the yard and the warehouseman Tommy Hardy didn’t drive any lorries, the w/house doors were very narrow and the yard was very congested
Hi Kev, Tommy Hardy thats a blast from the past, Is he still about I wonder ?, He worked for Baxters in the Milk Market Warehouse before Bob Kinghorns time, Then of course he moved to the Benton Depot, He was nice lad to know he was a good grafter, Regards Larry.
The Jungle Cafe, My first visit would have been IIRC 1959, I only stopped heading north from Manchester to Rutherglen, The grub was spot on & the choice of stuff on the counter IE Raw Onion Pickled Cabbage Etc was a real treat I cant remember any other Transport Cafe"s having these extras, They were the days in the haulage game when you did a fare days work for a fare days pay, Not like this ■■■■ that drivers have to put up these days, Regards Larry
Does anyone know how the Jungle Café got its name? Leonora Huck who used to wind the Leyland Clock would probably know if she’s still alive?
Lawrence Dunbar:
kevmac47:
At Waughs Ken Lancaster (the Duke) had a foolproof way of checking if a driver could handle an artic. Although by then (early seventies) the HGV licence had been in use a couple of years, new faces needed to be assessed. We had a lot of Carnation Milk in storage and on trailers in the yard and the warehouseman Tommy Hardy didn’t drive any lorries, the w/house doors were very narrow and the yard was very congestedHi Kev, Tommy Hardy thats a blast from the past, Is he still about I wonder ?, He worked for Baxters in the Milk Market Warehouse before Bob Kinghorns time, Then of course he moved to the Benton Depot, He was nice lad to know he was a good grafter, Regards Larry.
Hello Larry, Tommy Hardy left Waughs to take a job with Procter and Gamble, he often called into the yard for a chinwag, but I lost touch with him when I changed jobs. Young Brian Hair might have more info on Tommy. I’m sure he will see this post and reply. Regards Kev.
kevmac47:
Lawrence Dunbar:
kevmac47:
At Waughs Ken Lancaster (the Duke) had a foolproof way of checking if a driver could handle an artic. Although by then (early seventies) the HGV licence had been in use a couple of years, new faces needed to be assessed. We had a lot of Carnation Milk in storage and on trailers in the yard and the warehouseman Tommy Hardy didn’t drive any lorries, the w/house doors were very narrow and the yard was very congestedHi Kev, Tommy Hardy thats a blast from the past, Is he still about I wonder ?, He worked for Baxters in the Milk Market Warehouse before Bob Kinghorns time, Then of course he moved to the Benton Depot, He was nice lad to know he was a good grafter, Regards Larry.
Hello Larry, Tommy Hardy left Waughs to take a job with Procter and Gamble, he often called into the yard for a chinwag, but I lost touch with him when I changed jobs. Young
Proctor & Gamble at Seaton Delaval ■■? The amount of times they refused loads there was unbelievable. They looked for excuses not to unload if its the same place .I d forgotten about that place Kev , you just brought back some old memories
ramone:
kevmac47:
Lawrence Dunbar:
kevmac47:
At Waughs Ken Lancaster (the Duke) had a foolproof way of checking if a driver could handle an artic. Although by then (early seventies) the HGV licence had been in use a couple of years, new faces needed to be assessed. We had a lot of Carnation Milk in storage and on trailers in the yard and the warehouseman Tommy Hardy didn’t drive any lorries, the w/house doors were very narrow and the yard was very congestedHi Kev, Tommy Hardy thats a blast from the past, Is he still about I wonder ?, He worked for Baxters in the Milk Market Warehouse before Bob Kinghorns time, Then of course he moved to the Benton Depot, He was nice lad to know he was a good grafter, Regards Larry.
Hello Larry, Tommy Hardy left Waughs to take a job with Procter and Gamble, he often called into the yard for a chinwag, but I lost touch with him when I changed jobs. Young
Proctor & Gamble at Seaton Delaval ■■? The amount of times they refused loads there was unbelievable. They looked for excuses not to unload if it
s the same place .Id forgotten about that place Kev , you just brought back some old memories
Yes they were noted for turning stuff away & keeping drivers waiting for hours on end, But is now closing down with the loss of 450 jobs The have sold out to Coty the American cosmetic Co, Bad news for Seaton Deleval, Regards Larry.
kevmac47:
At Waughs Ken Lancaster (the Duke) had a foolproof way of checking if a driver could handle an artic. Although by then (early seventies) the HGV licence had been in use a couple of years, new faces needed to be assessed. We had a lot of Carnation Milk in storage and on trailers in the yard and the warehouseman Tommy Hardy didn’t drive any lorries, the w/house doors were very narrow and the yard was very congested
Why aye wor Kev, now I’ve actually found out why Waugh’s got shot of ONL 482M because without power steering none of their Star men could back a trailer into their warehouse with this fine motor They say you learn something every day !! Howay the lads ! “wot no power steering” well send it back to Atki’s for the lads ower the other side of the Pennines Soft buggers Cheers Dennis “Muscles” Bewick
Bewick:
kevmac47:
At Waughs Ken Lancaster (the Duke) had a foolproof way of checking if a driver could handle an artic. Although by then (early seventies) the HGV licence had been in use a couple of years, new faces needed to be assessed. We had a lot of Carnation Milk in storage and on trailers in the yard and the warehouseman Tommy Hardy didn’t drive any lorries, the w/house doors were very narrow and the yard was very congestedWhy aye wor Kev, now I’ve actually found out why Waugh’s got shot of ONL 482M because without power steering none of their Star men could back a trailer into their warehouse with this fine motor
Keep stirring Dennis, someone’s bound to bite!!! My new Borderer NTY683M, like every other Atki until the "N"reg’s had “armstrong” steering. The first artic I drove with power handlebars was that bloody three pointed star abortion, MTN 835R. After a couple of weeks driving that lump l asked for my old Atki back, (request denied) PS your “muscles” signature is apt is that in your tongue■■? Regards Kev.