gerbil sb152:
Hi all. I was always led to believe that to drive a tractor unit on a class 2 licence the fifth wheel had to be removed so that made the said vehicle incapable of tow a trailer thus making it illegal if a trailer should suddenly find it’s self attached.The same as where i used to work the fitter’s van had the tow bar removed so they did not come under tacho rules.I do accept that i could be wrong about this so only what i have dragged out of the back of my memory so don’t take my word on it get proper legal advice PLEASE.
About 1992 I was asked to turn a DAF 95 tractor unit into a heavy recovery unit. to do the stretch we removed the 5th wheel plate and this made it legal (according to the police) for me to drive it on a C&E licence. I was not allowed to drive it on public roads after the stretch, therefore I delivered it to JR Engineering at Bardwell but somebody else brought her back to Mildenhall. Don’t know if anything has changed since then. Jim.
I always thought that a solo tractor unit could be driven on a rigid licence 5wheel fitted or not but as soon as conected to trailer became a Class 1 artic I may be totally wrong
ianto:
I always thought that a solo tractor unit could be driven on a rigid licence 5wheel fitted or not but as soon as conected to trailer became a Class 1 artic I may be totally wrong
You are totally correct Ianto.
This has been covered many times on here and is really dead straight forwards, if it has a gross plated vehicle weight of over 7.5t and it has no large trailer then it’s cat C, if it has a large trailer it is cat C+E simples. Gross weight, number of axle, whether a 5th wheel is fitted have all been irrelevant since 1997. Before 1997 things were more complicated and had various anomalies such as being able to drive a tractor without a 5th wheel on a car licence because it wasn’t capable of carrying a load, similar for empty buses, but that is all long in the past.
Franglais’s case of taking a solo 4x2 tractor through a 7.5t weight limit, well weight limits refer to the gvw or gtw weight of the vehicle not it’s actual weight. So a 38t tractor would have had a gvw of at least 16260kg, so the police would have won. Interestingly in Germany, actually I should say Ludwigshafen, they would let you use a 4x2 tractor solo on Sunday to go to the supermarket or restaurant, but they would have you for breaking the Sunday 7.5t restriction in a 6x2, so they obviously took a different view but that’s many years ago.
They used to have a pin on the rt side about 00:10 which you could take out and remove the glass to get at the mileage numbers.
Asking for a friend: - Early days he Forked up and scratched the numbers whilst winding the mileage back, After that He bought plastic plasticine modelling tools that kept the numbers pristine.
gazzer:
When I was an apprentice we had a Bedford TK tractor unit that weighed 2ton 19cwt IIRC (just under 3ton) but plated at 20 ton train weight. An under 3 ton tractor did not require a driver with an HGV licence when without trailer.
All that changed after the war mate.
Do you remember when you could drive a ( heavy locomotive) on a red car licience as long as you were 21 or over. i stand to be corrected but for many years after the HGV licience came out you could still operate outside C&U without the HGV licience.
Needs someone like the “young” Chris Hill to get involved. Harvey
They used to have a pin on the rt side about 00:10 which you could take out and remove the glass to get at the mileage numbers.
Asking for a friend: - Early days he Forked up and scratched the numbers whilst winding the mileage back, After that He bought plastic plasticine modelling tools that kept the numbers pristine.
What did you use to wind the mileage back??
Can’t believe a friend of yours could do something so henious, No wonder we have had to go digital.
gazzer:
When I was an apprentice we had a Bedford TK tractor unit that weighed 2ton 19cwt IIRC (just under 3ton) but plated at 20 ton train weight. An under 3 ton tractor did not require a driver with an HGV licence when without trailer.
All that changed after the war mate.
Do you remember when you could drive a ( heavy locomotive) on a red car licience as long as you were 21 or over. i stand to be corrected but for many years after the HGV licience came out you could still operate outside C&U without the HGV licience.
Needs someone like the “young” Chris Hill to get involved. Harvey
After the 1933 Road Traffic Act was introduced a driving licence became compulsory, and for lorry drivers driving any vehicle exceeding 2.5 tons unladen weight they needed an additional Special Heavy Vehicle Driving Licence. This requirement was suspended in World War Two and it wasn’t re-introduced until the early 1970s, when working lorry drivers were issued with HGV driving entitlement under Grandfather Rights.
gazzer:
When I was an apprentice we had a Bedford TK tractor unit that weighed 2ton 19cwt IIRC (just under 3ton) but plated at 20 ton train weight. An under 3 ton tractor did not require a driver with an HGV licence when without trailer.
All that changed after the war mate.
Do you remember when you could drive a ( heavy locomotive) on a red car licience as long as you were 21 or over. i stand to be corrected but for many years after the HGV licience came out you could still operate outside C&U without the HGV licience.
Needs someone like the “young” Chris Hill to get involved. Harvey
After the 1933 Road Traffic Act was introduced a driving licence became compulsory, and for lorry drivers driving any vehicle exceeding 2.5 tons unladen weight they needed an additional Special Heavy Vehicle Driving Licence. This requirement was suspended in World War Two and it wasn’t re-introduced until the early 1970s, when working lorry drivers were issued with HGV driving entitlement under Grandfather Rights.
I joined the TA, Territorial Army just after my 17th birthday, April 1961, and before my 18th, I passed my driving test in an Army vehicle,
and was issued with the little red driving licence, which was not just a car licence, written on page 9 was stated “When in use for H.M.Forces,
any vehicle (Except Tracked Vehicles)”, This statement was stamped and authorised by a Senior Officer who was a Regular Soldier. During the
next 4 years I was driving big REME Army lorries, including S Type Bedfords, and Scammell 6 X 6 Recovery Trucks. Having spent 2 years from
early 1968 driving Ribble buses, I did not qualify for a HGV licence through Grandfather Rights, and in early 1970, I joined Robert Baillie & Co
from Horndean, and was allowed to drive their 32 Ton Atkinsons until the expiry date of my little red licence. Toward the end of 1970, I spent
a day at Baillies HGV Driving School at Horndean, and spent 1 day with Ray Golds, (RIP), Senior driving instructor who said “I am not going to
teach you to drive, I am going to teach you to pass the HGV Test”. The following day I went to Lancing in Sussex and passed the Class 1 Test.
Ray Smyth.
Here’s a question and perhaps it might lead to a bit of discussion.
Before Satnavs, and back in the day, how did driver’s learn to find their way about the country, or Europe in many instances, or those intrepid souls who went even further? And are some people born with a sense of direction?
So to begin with and to answer my own question(s), I’ll chuck in a few ideas. I started riding in the cabs of lorries in the mid-1950s, when I was 5 or 6 years old, so of an age when learning is easy. No Motorways back then. But I was interested in where we were going, the roads,the towns, villages and scenery. Every cab had a dog-eared road atlas (and in one or two instances some other “interesting” reading material hidden under the seat) which I would read. if we were going somewhere new the next day I would look at the road atlas the night before and try and plan the route, and then watch if the driver followed the route or went a different way to mine. Much later when I was old enough to drive I had gained a very good geographical knowledge of the UK, so finding my way about wasn’t a problem. Even finding a delivery or collection in a strange town or city wasn’t difficult. Stopping to ask a milkman, or postman was common. Going into a newsagents as well; they delivered papers so knew the locality. London presented a different kind of challenge, so I would plan my way to the district I needed, then take note of a road name, look at the A to Z, and work out my route from where I was to where I needed to be. I reckon that I do have a good sense of direction, there were times when I “sensed” that I was going the wrong way, and I was, but most of the time i “sensed” that I was going the right way.
As I never drove a truck in Europe in the 1970s and 80s, how did you continental drivers do it?
GINGERFOLD, you really answered your own question, asking other men, following other men being a second man, there were the Michelin Europe maps for most countries 1981 ish, old aa book, for commy block no ,you followed sign posts to be honest once you got the bug, you got the rhythm of asking other drivers even the ones that could not speak English you showed them your C.M.R…AND SCRAPS OF PAPERmost men had some idea where they were going there was allways someone who had been there b, you stopped at filling stations,you would get bum steers, but that was all the fun shoved a bit of paper in front of people or the cmr ,there was no magic.i cannot speak about middle ofr far east but they would have had some idea from embassies ,or other…dbp.
There is one important thing you are all guilty of, there is no such thing as an HGV Class 1, Class 2 or Class 3, regardless of when you passed your driving test.
An LGV is C an LGV with a trailer is C+E
One post about removing Fifth Wheels, padlocking them and driving over bridges with them is ■■■■■■■■.
Any driver who has Category C entitlement can drive an all singing all dancing tractor unit. If the all singing dancing vehicle weighs 7495kg he cannot drive it over a bridge marked up as 7.5t maximum weight.
If you put a trailer behind the tractor unit the driver would need a C+E licence, no padlocks, spanners or superglue
Morning all,
Who remembers the days when to down-plate a unit we had to take 4 or 6 bolts out of the fith wheel mounting plate and weld a little piece of metal over the holes.
Prior to that the police could only prosecute you for being over the taxation weight which was not rearly there thing but if it came to safty (not enough bolts) they would nail you to the wall.
Harvey
Wheel Nut:
There is one important thing you are all guilty of, there is no such thing as an HGV Class 1, Class 2 or Class 3, regardless of when you passed your driving test.
An LGV is C an LGV with a trailer is C+E
One post about removing Fifth Wheels, padlocking them and driving over bridges with them is ■■■■■■■■.
Any driver who has Category C entitlement can drive an all singing all dancing tractor unit. If the all singing dancing vehicle weighs 7495kg he cannot drive it over a bridge marked up as 7.5t maximum weight.
If you put a trailer behind the tractor unit the driver would need a C+E licence, no padlocks, spanners or superglue
Wheelnut, did you actually read any of the posts in this thread before writing this, or did you just forget your reading glasses?
Nowhere has anybody refered to classes 1, 2 or 3 in the relation to the current situation I.e. since 1997. Nowhere has anybody refered to padlock or spanners, I did refer to units without a 5th wheels but only in relation to an anominaly ended decades ago, and totally accurate. What bridges have to go with anything is anybodies guess, but since you mention it weight limits refer to the plated weight of a vehicle not it’s actual weight so it’s an offence to drive any unit (excepting mini-artics) through a 7.5t weight limit, oh and 7495kg is actually less than 7.5t. Hope this help.
Wheel Nut:
There is one important thing you are all guilty of, there is no such thing as an HGV Class 1, Class 2 or Class 3, regardless of when you passed your driving test.
An LGV is C an LGV with a trailer is C+E
One post about removing Fifth Wheels, padlocking them and driving over bridges with them is ■■■■■■■■.
Any driver who has Category C entitlement can drive an all singing all dancing tractor unit. If the all singing dancing vehicle weighs 7495kg he cannot drive it over a bridge marked up as 7.5t maximum weight.
If you put a trailer behind the tractor unit the driver would need a C+E licence, no padlocks, spanners or superglue
Wheelnut, did you actually read any of the posts in this thread before writing this, or did you just forget your reading glasses?
Nowhere has anybody refered to classes 1, 2 or 3 in the relation to the current situation I.e. since 1997. Nowhere has anybody refered to padlock or spanners, I did refer to units without a 5th wheels but only in relation to an anominaly ended decades ago, and totally accurate. What bridges have to go with anything is anybodies guess, but since you mention it weight limits refer to the plated weight of a vehicle not it’s actual weight so it’s an offence to drive any unit (excepting mini-artics) through a 7.5t weight limit, oh and 7495kg is actually less than 7.5t. Hope this help.
I did read it which prompted me to put pen to paper.
Au contraire my owld luv you need to go back to the beginning or at least read from post 50
Talk of removing fifth wheels, undoing bolts etc. Forgive me that I need a spanner.
gazzer:
When I was an apprentice we had a Bedford TK tractor unit that weighed 2ton 19cwt IIRC (just under 3ton) but plated at 20 ton train weight. An under 3 ton tractor did not require a driver with an HGV licence when without trailer.
All that changed after the war mate.
Do you remember when you could drive a ( heavy locomotive) on a red car licience as long as you were 21 or over. i stand to be corrected but for many years after the HGV licience came out you could still operate outside C&U without the HGV licience.
Needs someone like the “young” Chris Hill to get involved. Harvey
After the 1933 Road Traffic Act was introduced a driving licence became compulsory, and for lorry drivers driving any vehicle exceeding 2.5 tons unladen weight they needed an additional Special Heavy Vehicle Driving Licence. This requirement was suspended in World War Two and it wasn’t re-introduced until the early 1970s, when working lorry drivers were issued with HGV driving entitlement under Grandfather Rights.
Morning Gingerfold, in 1971 Iwas driving an AEC Mandator and was told to bring in my log book, then I filled in a big form with many pages, given a new log book and off back to work.
About 4 weeks later, again called to the office and given this blue ( passport like) driving licience and again back to work, never took a test and later was told the minestry issued licience bases on the class of vehicle you drove for the majority of a given time. As a by the way, fron 1971 till 2019 I have never been involved in any accident in a truck, caused hundreds mind. Harvey
