kevmac47:
I agree about the ‘job’ and working conditions being a lot better in the eighties, but my abiding memory ( and nightmare) at the time was the crippling mortgage rates!! At one time it was around 17% 
I very nearly lost my home then. Regards Kev 
Hi Kev, The 80s, Well I did very well Im pleased to say I had plenty of work with decent rates Plus the folk I got work off were good prompt payers, Cargotransporters Ltd On the Quayside run bt the late Les Bolam was renowned in those days for paying on time, Plus Unicargo Transport Ltd run by Sadey Brown who worked for Crows of Gateshead & Smiles for Miles, Paid on time every time with good rates, Plus when running long haul stuff she allways had a back load lined up, Usually scrap batteries for Elswick, The good old days, My local Club has opened up I aint been yet but I will have a look in on Sat, Stay safe my friend, Regards Larry.
windrush:
I’m too young to comment much really as I wasn’t driving full time until 1984 when tachos were then in general use, but I do remember that things seemed a lot more relaxed back in the 70’s than they are nowadays? With a logbook you could do in one day work that would take two days now, not strictly ‘legally’ of course! 
I remember one of our former drivers at Tilcon saying that his first driving job was from the brickworks at Owler Bar near Sheffield to Uttoxeter and back empty which he was allowed eight hours for, on Tilcon (many years later of course!) he was expected to do Ashbourne to Lenham and back in a similar time! Back in the seventies/ early eighties a days work was five or occasionally six loads of dust up to Charcon at Hulland Ward, about a one hour round trip. Later six loads were normal and seven when needed, one chap reguarly did a Derby first then seven loads. Likewise we did three loads daily to Bisons at Lichfield, then possibly a dust to Hulland Ward, later it was either four loads to Lichfield or in my case three Lichfields and a Sheffield. Cardiff was another occasional run with tarmac, but then usually a Sheffield afterwards. I know the trucks were more powerful but the downside was that more work was expected from them and us! 
Pete.
That rang alarm bells since I used to do Hulland Ward to Goudhurst - a similar 200 miles - about once every three weeks in the '70s. It so happens that I’ve got two logbooks from the era which have that very journey detailed several times. Across London that is taking six hours or a little more for the one way trip regardless of time of day or day of the week. I can possibly knock that back by 15 minutes or even 1/2hr because booking off time will have included refuelling and locking the lorry shed. Checking further for other journeys I’m seeing the fastest average speed working out at 37 mph but most are around 29 - 32 mph (or less!) All jouneys in either an AEC Marshal or 5 pot Atkinson, both would have been about 20 mph up Shepshed.
cav551:
That rang alarm bells since I used to do Hulland Ward to Goudhurst - a similar 200 miles - about once every three weeks in the '70s. It so happens that I’ve got two logbooks from the era which have that very journey detailed several times. Across London that is taking six hours or a little more for the one way trip regardless of time of day or day of the week. I can possibly knock that back by 15 minutes or even 1/2hr because booking off time will have included refuelling and locking the lorry shed. Checking further for other journeys I’m seeing the fastest average speed working out at 37 mph but most are around 29 - 32 mph (or less!) All jouneys in either an AEC Marshal or 5 pot Atkinson, both would have been about 20 mph up Shepshed.
Going through London would slow things down a little Cav! Our drivers still did Lenham in their hours though. One firm did Buxton to Brighton and back reguarly with Gardner engined Fodens, a one of our tippers did the Isle of Wight and back the same day. It was a lot faster when the M25 etc opened up and even our 201 Gardner engined Fodens did the journey to Lenham in a reasonable time. One did get hit up the backside by a Scania up a long drag on (I assume?) the M20 as the Scania driver hadn’t estimated the tanker’s speed! The copper asked our driver why he was going so slowly and he replied that he was flat out and the only time it went any faster was very briefly after the Scania hit him! When I towed a loaded tanker back up the M1 from London with another Foden with ten tonnes on it’s back (50 tonne alltogether) it was low range third gear up the drag from Leicester Forrest to Markfield with one eye on the temperature guage.
Back in the early seventies I believe our drivers got ‘slow running time’ when travelling through London, but that had gone when I started there in 1975. I think for everyday running they were paid 25 miles to the hour, but later as wages increased it was raised to 28 and then 30. 
Giveth with one hand and take with the other.
Pete.
I think the job in the 80s was a lot better than now no mobile phones no trackers on lorry’s, I feel drivers were trusted to do there job and would talk to each other and help each other out, most would never see another driver stuck , I think lorry drivers back then were treated with respect and with some of the posts I see on here especially involving RDCs im glad I went driving bin wagons
Just a foot note I really enjoy reading Mr Bewicks posts on here a real insight in to the job from both sides driver and bossman
This is another firm I used to load from, This was a 4 wheeler job, Plus I loaded back with seed tatties, Regards Larry.
Those log sheets were dated 1976, there was no alternative but to go through London (Archway, Highbury Corner, Balls Pond rd, Dalston, Hackney Wick, Blackwall Tunnel, Rochester Way) because most of the M25 wasn’t open until the 1980s Reigate to Godstone was open and another couple of short stretches around Potters Bar and Watford I believe. It was a different world.
cav551:
Those log sheets were dated 1976, there was no alternative but to go through London (Archway, Highbury Corner, Balls Pond rd, Dalston, Hackney Wick, Blackwall Tunnel, Rochester Way) because most of the M25 wasn’t open until the 1980s Reigate to Godstone was open and another couple of short stretches around Potters Bar and Watford I believe. It was a different world.
The Foden tanker I towed back north would have been heading that way, it expired outside the toilets at Clapton Common. I went M1/M10 then down through Cockfosters etc on the A111 over the north circular and then joined the A10 near Stamford Hill. He must have left Brassington early though as I was still in bed around 7 am when our chargehand called me to tell me that the driver was on the phone. Still half asleep I took the call “It’s Bert Weston, i’m outside the bogs on Clapton Common” and at that time of day he may just as well have been on the Moon as far as I was concerned as I had never travelled to London from the north, only from Reading on the A4/M4! By the time I reached the quarry and found a spare tipper and part loaded it the time was getting on. Anyway I found him, we had fun turning him around on a towbar though and caused some hold up! We cracked off straight back: “I’m going out with the missus later this afternoon so step on it and don’t stop” he instructed me. Next day he calls me: “There’s a pop bottle full of ■■■■ in the passengers side, can you empty it please” so I asked him why he hadn’t used the loos, “Only the ladies was open and I didn’t want to get arrested” he replied! I don’t think that Londoners would have noticed really. Bert died a few years ago and his widow Zoe who worked at the quarry as well passed away last week alas. 
Pete.
cav551:
Those log sheets were dated 1976, there was no alternative but to go through London (Archway, Highbury Corner, Balls Pond rd, Dalston, Hackney Wick, Blackwall Tunnel, Rochester Way) because most of the M25 wasn’t open until the 1980s Reigate to Godstone was open and another couple of short stretches around Potters Bar and Watford I believe. It was a different world.
A20/25 Reigate, Tolworth, Hampton Court, Sunbury, Twickenham, Southall, Greenford, Harrow, Bushey, or just North Circ from Kew were a common default choice for South East - M1 etc.
I’m guessing a favourable choice than through London ?.
Certainly in my case I generally stayed out of London and still do unless having to specifically go there.
Early 1980s and I regularly used the A1, and I remember seeing vehicles from an up and coming firm with this slogan on the rear doors of the curtainside trailers…Eddie Stobart Express Haulage, and I wondered to myself why are they offering to rush about. Nearly 40 years later the answer to my own question has been answered countless times.
Only last Wednesday one of my customers 'phoned me at 10.55 am asking me to cover a load from Liverpool to South Wales by 7.00 pm the same evening. I’m in Trafford Park, so the driver (when I found one) had to go to Liverpool to load. I found a driver who had the hours to do the load, having told the customer it wouldn’t be there for 7.00 pm. The last thing I said to my driver was “no heroics, it gets there when it gets there”.
Stobart and his ilk have a lot to answer for.
I have a good illustration of how the job deteriorated over the years. There was a now long gone O/D who lived in Milnthorpe and he started out in the mid/later 50’s. First running an AEC Mustang 24ft flat and swapping that for an ERF 8 wheeler and then going “artic” with an ERF KV and a bespoke 31ft 6" ERF trailer as the outfit was made to measure to fit his single bay garage located right in the middle of the village, another new ERF rplaced the first unit. His weekly operation consisted of one round trip between Uxbridge and Glasgow working for Cape Asbestos with his deliveries from Glasgow tipped around the London area and in reverse around Central valley in Scotland. Well his pattern of work never changed over the years and he always had one months holiday every year and reckoned to work about 45 weeks per year. he was also over the years able to pay cash for his replacement motor and then sell on the secondhand unit via his Foreman Pal at ERF’s afterwards. In 1975 I supplied him with a new “A” Series 8LXB as he could no longer deal direct with ERF’s as he had done in the past. At the same time Cape insisted he start running a 40ft trailer so more expense ! Well he plodded on as his more-or-less guaranteed London to Glasgow started to be a bit hit and miss and he was ending up tipped in Lancashire mid week so we would sometimes load him to ■■■■■■■■■■■ from Milnthorpe to get him up to Glasgow. But all the while he was moaning and groaning that he was struggling to breakeven as his rates had stagnated and his regular traffic was no longer “regular” but he was adamant that he was not going to do anymore work than he had over the past 20 odd years. So it got to’79 and he was wanting to buy a new “B” Series but he hadn’t accumulated the funds to do what he always did so he was about £10k short but not only that Cape had told him that he had to now run a Tautliner to carry their products so more expense ! He really was bordering on suicidal as he was about 3 or 4 years short of retirement. I bought his “A” Series and C/F 40ft flat from him which were both immaculate and low mileage !
Anyway he soldiered on into the early 80’s but finally “threw in the towel” and I again bought his sleeper cab “B” Series ( He also hated sleeper cabs having been a “dig " man all his working life) but his 6’ 6” aperture Tautliner was no good to us at Bewick Transport so it stood in our yard for a few months with all and sundry calling to crawl over it but it did eventually sell to someone who could use it !
So as you can see the job steadily deteriorated over the years from the ability to earn a good return to the point where margins were reduced to wafer thin and nothing is likely to change for the better anytime soon ! Glad to be out of it !! Cheers Bewick.
Bewick we can’t under estimate the industrial vanadalism that took place from 1979.Combined with the ever increasing deliberate ramping up of fuel costs and taxation in all this to deter the use of road transport.
So massive decrease in customers and those that remain wanting to minimise their use of transport meaning less loads going shorter distances.
To the point where even 44 tonners are now being used as short hop multi droppers made up of whatever scraps can be cobbled together to make a trailer load and most of it only going a few miles up the road.
As for a few years from retirement try being forced back into the labour market for economic reasons at the age of almost 62 and the most recent job I applied to and actually got a response from tells me my application is under review with 472 others.
The distance dry stone work we had with Tilcons own eightwheelers tended to dry up when maximum capacity artics arrived big style. They generally came from down country and brought scrap etc north and then loaded limestone at our place as a back load, usually at a reduced rate and carrying a few tonnes more to help make up the shortfall. There was still some long runs where artics were not suitable, chippings for New Cross and Stratford for building the then new London tube line which for some reason had to be lined with pure white limestone, but nothing like there once was. Obviously many of the places we once ran to had closed down. I remember my last gaffer’s comment when the artic weights went from 38 to 44 tonnes: “they are carting an extra six tonnes for nothing now” and he might have been close to the truth in many instances?
Pete.
windrush:
The distance dry stone work we had with Tilcons own eightwheelers tended to dry up when maximum capacity artics arrived big style. They generally came from down country and brought scrap etc north and then loaded limestone at our place as a back load, usually at a reduced rate and carrying a few tonnes more to help make up the shortfall. There was still some long runs where artics were not suitable, chippings for New Cross and Stratford for building the then new London tube line which for some reason had to be lined with pure white limestone, but nothing like there once was. Obviously many of the places we once ran to had closed down. I remember my last gaffer’s comment when the artic weights went from 38 to 44 tonnes: “they are carting an extra six tonnes for nothing now” and he might have been close to the truth in many instances?
That’s surprising.My own impression was always that the South was the poor relation in terms of road haulage operations and job opportunities.Catastrophically so in this area around Surrey, Sussex and Hampshire being little if any better.Kent and Essex being the exceptions that proved the rule but not enough and wrong place to cut it in providing opportunities for us.
As for the weight increase to be fair it needs to be equated together with fuel cost increases in which the productivety increase was offset and swallowed up by fuel costs.Drivers’ wages being hit hardest first.It needed to go to at least 55t gross preferably more thereby allowing rigids to pull a 4 axle 40 ft trailer. 
Well I used to do a lot of work for a firm in Ponteland, I did it for a very long time, Then they got a new manager in, He said that he was quoted for sand & gravel from another haulage firm & they could do it for a £1.00 a tonne less than what I was charging, What did I think he said 
, So I told him that I had plenty of work in fact I used to give quite a lot to other owner drivers, He said well cant you think about it , I lost it & told him to F R Off. A few weeks later he contacted me & said the £1.00. a tonne less turned out to be 10pence & the service from this new firm was crap, , I said well Im to busy , Plus you treated me like ■■■■■■ So go & rub some in your face, 
, I never did anymore work for them, But when I did they were good prompt end of the month payers,Regards Larry.
Does anyone have any comparison of haulage rates from the 70/80s compared to today?
For me a driver in the early 2000s looking at the photos on the Paul Gee thread brings home the changes in traffic volumes, would have loved to drive on empty motorways and no limiter.
Steve.
vwvanman0:
Does anyone have any comparison of haulage rates from the 70/80s compared to today?
For me a driver in the early 2000s looking at the photos on the Paul Gee thread brings home the changes in traffic volumes, would have loved to drive on empty motorways and no limiter.
Steve.
Mid 70’s Milnthorpe to London area and Kent-- over 15 ton---- £16 per ton.
Bewick:
vwvanman0:
Does anyone have any comparison of haulage rates from the 70/80s compared to today?
For me a driver in the early 2000s looking at the photos on the Paul Gee thread brings home the changes in traffic volumes, would have loved to drive on empty motorways and no limiter.
Steve.
Mid 70’s Milnthorpe to London area and Kent-- over 15 ton---- £16 per ton.
Early 70’s, Cornwall to the east Midlands £2.50 per ton, China clay or slate powder.
vwvanman0:
Does anyone have any comparison of haulage rates from the 70/80s compared to today?
For me a driver in the early 2000s looking at the photos on the Paul Gee thread brings home the changes in traffic volumes, would have loved to drive on empty motorways and no limiter.
Steve.
Most of the 1980’s was in deep recession and truck movements really did reflect that big time.
When it returned much of the previous industrial traffic from manufacturing etc had obviously gone.
