Petrol and diesel cars to be phased out within 20 years?

[lancpudn]

lancpudn:
Looks like the EU has now agreed on truck emissions being cut by 30% before 2030 “The European Union has reached an agreement to set strict CO2 emissions standards for trucks, New truck CO2 emissions must be 30 percent lower in 2030 than current emissions standards”. electrek.co/2019/02/19/eu-agree … qus_thread

Binding agreements have now been set for new truck/bus CO2 emission limits. electrive.com/2019/06/15/eu … and-buses/

Will it be even possible for truck manufacturers to get emissions down that low? Or are they going to be paying huge fines!.

[carryfast]

lancpudn:

lancpudn:
Looks like the EU has now agreed on truck emissions being cut by 30% before 2030 “The European Union has reached an agreement to set strict CO2 emissions standards for trucks, New truck CO2 emissions must be 30 percent lower in 2030 than current emissions standards”. electrek.co/2019/02/19/eu-agree … qus_thread

Binding agreements have now been set for new truck/bus CO2 emission limits. electrive.com/2019/06/15/eu … and-buses/

Will it be even possible for truck manufacturers to get emissions down that low? Or are they going to be paying huge fines!.

If it looks,quacks and flies like a benefit scam for the nuclear power generation industry it probably is.

If not it seems obvious that they’ll just be transferring CO2 emmissions from fossil fuelled engines to coal/gas fired electric power generation.

While good luck with plans to make us fully dependent on electric for our domestic needs.What could possibly go wrong at a current figure 12.4 p per kWh for electric v 3.8 p per kWh for gas.Also bearing in mind that 1 gallon of diesel produces around 14 kWh and the most practical alternative fuel,in the form of Hydrogen,takes more power to produce than it contains.

On that note if they intend to inflict all the inefficiencies and costs,let alone nuclear dangers,of going all carbon free electric,just to pander to a bunch of misguided loons who believe that Venus was cooked by the CO2 composition of its atmosphere.Then Hydrogen fuelled internal combustion engines is the way to go.Which would just mean using the already produced,spark ignition versions,of conventional truck engines,as we know them.With the downside of massive unaffordable increases in fuel costs both transport and domestic.That’s before the inevitable nuclear disaster sooner or later turning the place into an uninhabitable wasteland and resulting cancer epidemic in the following decades and centuries.

[franglais]

lancpudn:

lancpudn:
Looks like the EU has now agreed on truck emissions being cut by 30% before 2030 “The European Union has reached an agreement to set strict CO2 emissions standards for trucks, New truck CO2 emissions must be 30 percent lower in 2030 than current emissions standards”. electrek.co/2019/02/19/eu-agree … qus_thread

Binding agreements have now been set for new truck/bus CO2 emission limits. electrive.com/2019/06/15/eu … and-buses/

Will it be even possible for truck manufacturers to get emissions down that low? Or are they going to be paying huge fines!.

Getting emissions down to zero is possible now…it may be in an expensive truck with a ten ton battery pack, but it’s possible.
.
If transport becomes less cheap than it is now, maybe the way we organize things will change? Transporting bottles of drinking water hundreds of miles “because we can”, may be a thing of the past?
Not holding my breath though.

[mazzer2]

Franglais:

lancpudn:

lancpudn:
Looks like the EU has now agreed on truck emissions being cut by 30% before 2030 “The European Union has reached an agreement to set strict CO2 emissions standards for trucks, New truck CO2 emissions must be 30 percent lower in 2030 than current emissions standards”. electrek.co/2019/02/19/eu-agree … qus_thread

Binding agreements have now been set for new truck/bus CO2 emission limits. electrive.com/2019/06/15/eu … and-buses/

Will it be even possible for truck manufacturers to get emissions down that low? Or are they going to be paying huge fines!.

Getting emissions down to zero is possible now…it may be in an expensive truck with a ten ton battery pack, but it’s possible.
.
If transport becomes less cheap than it is now, maybe the way we organize things will change? Transporting bottles of drinking water hundreds of miles “because we can”, may be a thing of the past?
Not holding my breath though.

The vehicle may be emissions free at point of use but where has the electricity come from and how was it generated the UK’s generation capacity is just below it’s maximum level now add in thousands of electric vehicles and it will blackout you can hardly use solar panels to recharge the vehicles overnight

[franglais]

Mazzer2:

Franglais:

lancpudn:

lancpudn:
Looks like the EU has now agreed on truck emissions being cut by 30% before 2030 “The European Union has reached an agreement to set strict CO2 emissions standards for trucks, New truck CO2 emissions must be 30 percent lower in 2030 than current emissions standards”. electrek.co/2019/02/19/eu-agree … qus_thread

Binding agreements have now been set for new truck/bus CO2 emission limits. electrive.com/2019/06/15/eu … and-buses/

Will it be even possible for truck manufacturers to get emissions down that low? Or are they going to be paying huge fines!.

Getting emissions down to zero is possible now…it may be in an expensive truck with a ten ton battery pack, but it’s possible.
.
If transport becomes less cheap than it is now, maybe the way we organize things will change? Transporting bottles of drinking water hundreds of miles “because we can”, may be a thing of the past?
Not holding my breath though.

The vehicle may be emissions free at point of use but where has the electricity come from and how was it generated the UK’s generation capacity is just below it’s maximum level now add in thousands of electric vehicles and it will blackout you can hardly use solar panels to recharge the vehicles overnight

Absolutely. Moving pollution from the vehicle back to the power generating station is no solution.
But low or zero carbon modes of generation are more manageable on static sites, aren’t they?
Pointing out the flaws in our electricity system doesn’t obviate the need to clean up vehicles. But it does point out how difficult it is gonna be.

[carryfast]

Franglais:
Moving pollution from the vehicle back to the power generating station is no solution.
But low or zero carbon modes of generation are more manageable on static sites, aren’t they?
Pointing out the flaws in our electricity system doesn’t obviate the need to clean up vehicles. But it does point out how difficult it is gonna be.

Either there’s going to be loads of safe plentiful cheap electricity or there ain’t.If there is then hydrogen fuelled internal combustion is the clear easy winner for road vehicles.

But we all know that safe plentiful electricity is an oxymoron because no nuclear no plentiful electricity.Now awaits the usual eco loon bs that atmospheric CO2 is far more dangerous than nuclear power generation.These zbwits should be sectioned for everyone’s safety including their own.

[mazzer2]

Franglais:

Mazzer2:

Franglais:
Binding agreements have now been set for new truck/bus CO2 emission limits. electrive.com/2019/06/15/eu … and-buses/

Will it be even possible for truck manufacturers to get emissions down that low? Or are they going to be paying huge fines!.

Getting emissions down to zero is possible now…it may be in an expensive truck with a ten ton battery pack, but it’s possible.
.
If transport becomes less cheap than it is now, maybe the way we organize things will change? Transporting bottles of drinking water hundreds of miles “because we can”, may be a thing of the past?
Not holding my breath though.

The vehicle may be emissions free at point of use but where has the electricity come from and how was it generated the UK’s generation capacity is just below it’s maximum level now add in thousands of electric vehicles and it will blackout you can hardly use solar panels to recharge the vehicles overnight

Absolutely. Moving pollution from the vehicle back to the power generating station is no solution.
But low or zero carbon modes of generation are more manageable on static sites, aren’t they?
Pointing out the flaws in our electricity system doesn’t obviate the need to clean up vehicles. But it does point out how difficult it is gonna be.
[/quote]

I agree but I think with this holier than thou rush to cut emissions you will get the law of unintended consequences, from drawing board to being scrapped a Jeep Cherokee is more environmentally friendly than a Toyota Prius but the Prius driver can virtue signal that he is saving the planet,one reason is the materials needed for the batteries and the fact that it cannot be 100% recycled when it is finished. The conditions of the mines where a lot of these precious metals that are required for electric cars are mined are already horrendous with child labour being used and will only get worse as demand increases plus the devastation to the environment around these mines. A lot of these mines are also under the influence of China which is quietly colonising Africa’s resources through aid budgets yet behaving no different than the old colonial powers in terms of taking natural resources without paying the full price for them. Politicians keep saying how the UK’s have been slashed in the last 20 years but only because we have outsourced the pollution to cheaper countries by closing down our own manufacturing and electric cars may have a similar effect.
As for clean energy at static sites instead of paying already rich landowners subsidies to convert farmland to solar farms they could have given each house solar panels thereby cutting everyone’s bill and emissions the irony being that due to the farmland lost to solar farms the crops that could have grown there will now have to be imported again unintended consequences

[franglais]

Mazzer2:

Franglais:

Mazzer2:

Franglais:
Binding agreements have now been set for new truck/bus CO2 emission limits. electrive.com/2019/06/15/eu … and-buses/

Will it be even possible for truck manufacturers to get emissions down that low? Or are they going to be paying huge fines!.

Getting emissions down to zero is possible now…it may be in an expensive truck with a ten ton battery pack, but it’s possible.
.
If transport becomes less cheap than it is now, maybe the way we organize things will change? Transporting bottles of drinking water hundreds of miles “because we can”, may be a thing of the past?
Not holding my breath though.

The vehicle may be emissions free at point of use but where has the electricity come from and how was it generated the UK’s generation capacity is just below it’s maximum level now add in thousands of electric vehicles and it will blackout you can hardly use solar panels to recharge the vehicles overnight

Absolutely. Moving pollution from the vehicle back to the power generating station is no solution.
But low or zero carbon modes of generation are more manageable on static sites, aren’t they?
Pointing out the flaws in our electricity system doesn’t obviate the need to clean up vehicles. But it does point out how difficult it is gonna be.

I agree but I think with this holier than thou rush to cut emissions you will get the law of unintended consequences, from drawing board to being scrapped a Jeep Cherokee is more environmentally friendly than a Toyota Prius but the Prius driver can virtue signal that he is saving the planet,one reason is the materials needed for the batteries and the fact that it cannot be 100% recycled when it is finished. The conditions of the mines where a lot of these precious metals that are required for electric cars are mined are already horrendous with child labour being used and will only get worse as demand increases plus the devastation to the environment around these mines. A lot of these mines are also under the influence of China which is quietly colonising Africa’s resources through aid budgets yet behaving no different than the old colonial powers in terms of taking natural resources without paying the full price for them. Politicians keep saying how the UK’s have been slashed in the last 20 years but only because we have outsourced the pollution to cheaper countries by closing down our own manufacturing and electric cars may have a similar effect.
As for clean energy at static sites instead of paying already rich landowners subsidies to convert farmland to solar farms they could have given each house solar panels thereby cutting everyone’s bill and emissions the irony being that due to the farmland lost to solar farms the crops that could have grown there will now have to be imported again unintended consequences
[/quote]
.
.

We can agree then that it is a complex situation and it is necessary to look at the overall effect of any actions. I agree that consumer goods are being produced, for us, more cheaply, and with lower environmental and human standards abroad. We claim we are producing less pollution but WE are the cause of Chinese, Indian, etc pollution.
.
I may disagree about
“the holier than thou rush”.
No one knows, because we haven’t been here before, what time scale is available to stop us going past some tipping point, and sliding into a spiral of global change.
I may agree about the “holier than thou” attitude of some, but maybe we aren’t rushing enough? If we have to put up with a few smug so’n’so’s to kick the rest of us into action, so be it. If it takes a teenage kid to point out to me the way things are going, fine.
We don’t know what temp rise the planet can take. Better to try harder, sooner, to keep it down lower, rather than be more cavalier in our attitude and overstep the limits.

[carryfast]

Franglais:
We don’t know what temp rise the planet can take. Better to try harder, sooner, to keep it down lower, rather than be more cavalier in our attitude and overstep the limits.

But when you’re asked to prove any link whatsoever,between temperature and atmospheric CO2 levels,in the form of a direct mathematic ratio of CO2 to any temperature increase,you obviously can’t.As opposed to the proven mathematical link between atmospheric pressure v temperature.Which obviously disproves the whole bs CO2 Green House theory and the eco loons know it but won’t admit it.Being hell bent on turning the place into a massive version of Chernobyl to solve a non existent problem.While we have to burn gas to provide heating in June because the wind has been blowing from the wrong direction.That will be so much better when we’re forced to use electric at around 4 times the cost let alone in the Winter.

[lawrence_dunbar]

Oh dear, What a world we now live in, They will be banning ■■■■■■■ next I dont wonder, , Then drinking, Then ■■■, So what else can we do, , Work, Eat Sleep, And pay ours taxes to keep other ■■■■■ in jobs who think they rule the world , , Regards Larry.

[lancpudn]

Lawrence Dunbar:
Oh dear, What a world we now live in, They will be banning ■■■■■■■ next I dont wonder, , Then drinking, Then ■■■, So what else can we do, , Work, Eat Sleep, And pay ours taxes to keep other [zb] in jobs who think they rule the world , , Regards Larry.

Sounds like my world after being married to my missus for 46 years.

[lancpudn]

Mazzer2:

Franglais:

lancpudn:

lancpudn:
Looks like the EU has now agreed on truck emissions being cut by 30% before 2030 “The European Union has reached an agreement to set strict CO2 emissions standards for trucks, New truck CO2 emissions must be 30 percent lower in 2030 than current emissions standards”. electrek.co/2019/02/19/eu-agree … qus_thread

Binding agreements have now been set for new truck/bus CO2 emission limits. electrive.com/2019/06/15/eu … and-buses/

Will it be even possible for truck manufacturers to get emissions down that low? Or are they going to be paying huge fines!.

Getting emissions down to zero is possible now…it may be in an expensive truck with a ten ton battery pack, but it’s possible.
.
If transport becomes less cheap than it is now, maybe the way we organize things will change? Transporting bottles of drinking water hundreds of miles “because we can”, may be a thing of the past?
Not holding my breath though.

The vehicle may be emissions free at point of use but where has the electricity come from and how was it generated the UK’s generation capacity is just below it’s maximum level now add in thousands of electric vehicles and it will blackout you can hardly use solar panels to recharge the vehicles overnight

The National grid has said the UK will be 100% renewable energy ready by 2025. electrek.co/2019/04/09/egeb-bri … -and-more/

"Graeme Cooper, National Grid’s director of electric vehicles, told a Parliamentary committee that it was confident it could provide whatever charging infrastructure and other infrastructure the conversion to electric cars would require and wants the ban on ICE vehicles brought forward a full ten years. greencarreports.com/news/11 … es-in-2030

London is planning on installing 50000 electric car charging points by 2025. electrek.co/2019/06/17/london-e … ints-2025/

[franglais]

“While the network maybe able to handle 100% renewable by 2025 it doesn’t mean the UK will be anywhere near there by then”
That’s from your link.
Having the cables to carry the electricity isn’t the same as having it.
.
carbonwatch.org suggest 50% renewable in 2030.
.
Sorry
[emoji21]

[lancpudn]

Franglais:
“While the network maybe able to handle 100% renewable by 2025 it doesn’t mean the UK will be anywhere near there by then”
That’s from your link.
Having the cables to carry the electricity isn’t the same as having it.
.
carbonwatch.org suggest 50% renewable in 2030.
.
Sorry
[emoji21]

If the main man in charge (Graeme Cooper) was confident they could provide all the infrastructure requirements by then who am I to disbelieve?

Sorry

"Graeme Cooper, National Grid’s director of electric vehicles, told a Parliamentary committee that it was confident it could provide whatever charging infrastructure and other infrastructure the conversion to electric cars would require and wants the ban on ICE vehicles brought forward a full ten years. greencarreports.com/news/11 … es-in-2030

[muckles]

lancpudn:

Franglais:
“While the network maybe able to handle 100% renewable by 2025 it doesn’t mean the UK will be anywhere near there by then”
That’s from your link.
Having the cables to carry the electricity isn’t the same as having it.
.
carbonwatch.org suggest 50% renewable in 2030.
.
Sorry
[emoji21]

If the main man in charge (Graeme Cooper) was confident they could provide all the infrastructure requirements by then who am I to disbelieve?

Sorry

"Graeme Cooper, National Grid’s director of electric vehicles, told a Parliamentary committee that it was confident it could provide whatever charging infrastructure and other infrastructure the conversion to electric cars would require and wants the ban on ICE vehicles brought forward a full ten years. greencarreports.com/news/11 … es-in-2030

While the network may be able to handle 100 percent carbon-free energy by 2025, that doesn’t mean Great Britain will be anywhere near that 100% mark by then. But when or if that time ever arrives, ESO will be ready

.

As Franglais said infrastructure to support isn’t the same as capacity to produce it, and a proportion of the zero carbon energy will be nuclear.

Although we’ve heard much of how our electricity has gone for extended periods without using coal to produce it, I believe gas fired stations still produce the bulk of our electricity and also we import electricty and it’s not always clear how that is produced some of it could still be produced in coal fired stations.

However not to be totally down on it, I believe wind power is far cheaper to produce that predicted a few years ago, especially by the doom mongers, the cost is making many of the proposed nuclear station look economically unviable.

Still not sure if battery powered vehicles are any more than a stop gap or blind alley of development, the materials required to produce the batteries, the recycling of those products, and the lack of convience of the recharge compared to the speed of filling up an ICE vehicle in a world that expects things to happen in an instant surely will open the door for something else to come along.

It also seems us all going electric isn’t enough for some environmentalists, they’re already going on about the pollution caused by brakes and tyres, and we can all swap our cars for a Tesla or Nissan Leaf, but apparently the clothing industry produces more carbon that the entire international aviation industry, which I thought was a bit ironic as I’m sure many of those youngsters protesting at us oldies in our cars a few weeks ago probably are far more responsible for that with their need to buy cloths every week to keep up with the latest fashions when us oldies probably have jeans even underpants older than them

[carryfast]

lancpudn:

Franglais:
“While the network maybe able to handle 100% renewable by 2025 it doesn’t mean the UK will be anywhere near there by then”
That’s from your link.
Having the cables to carry the electricity isn’t the same as having it.
.
carbonwatch.org suggest 50% renewable in 2030.
.
Sorry
[emoji21]

If the main man in charge (Graeme Cooper) was confident they could provide all the infrastructure requirements by then who am I to disbelieve?

Sorry

"Graeme Cooper, National Grid’s director of electric vehicles, told a Parliamentary committee that it was confident it could provide whatever charging infrastructure and other infrastructure the conversion to electric cars would require and wants the ban on ICE vehicles brought forward a full ten years. greencarreports.com/news/11 … es-in-2030

Isn’t that the same ‘national grid’ which also wants a ban on domestic gas boilers for obvious reasons you know like flogging electricity at 13 p per kWh instead of the customer having the choice of using gas at less than 4p per kWh.On that note Graeme Cooper can zb off bearing in mind that there’s nothing in the rules which says that we have to ban Hydrogen fuelled ICE powered vehicles.Even if that will still mean having to use his rip off priced electricity to get it.

While I’m guessing that they won’t want to cap UK oil and gas beyond use.When the corrupt zb’s running the country will inevitably just export it to be burnt elsewhere.While ripping off domestic customers by creating a captive market for dangerous nuclear generated electric at home.

As for renewables they really must think that everyone is stupid enough to think that the whole scam isn’t just a dangerous nuclear power generation benefit exercise.

[franglais]

National Grid EOS provide the network, cables, pylons etc. They don’t generate electricity.
The industry is split just as Network Rail provide infrastructure but don’t actually run trains.
Renewable, and Zero Carbon aren’t synonymous, so we need to be careful there too. Biomass burning may be renewable but not zero carbon or environmentally friendly?
Depending on whether our new Nuclear stations actually go ahead or not, and whether our electricity use increases or falls much could change. We been in the peculiar situation whereby the economy has decoupled from electricity consumption as the economy has grown as electricity use decreased. But I think we currently import about 18% of our electricity. And the French produce 70% of that by nuclear…
.
By the by, the original piece I clicked back to, was dated…01/04/2019…
There should be a total ban on all serious articles being published then! [emoji5]

[ovlov_jay]

The infrastructure will not be there in my lifetime at least, to allow this to happen. The national grid has a meltdown with everyone making a cuppa at half time of an England game, roughly 6 times a year. Imagine the strain if 10million cars or more were charging overnight. And the build quality will be shocking on cars and trucks, as they’ll skimp our to remain competitive. Just ask anyone who drives a version 4 fh about the plastic interior panels and reliability issues. They made a cheap product to offset the euro 6 technology costs. This is why a scania is way more expensive, as they haven’t compromised on finish. If an electric focus was built to the same quality as a petrol one, it’d be £50k plus

[ovlov_jay]

Franglais:
Renewable, and Zero Carbon aren’t synonymous, so we need to be careful there too. Biomass burning may be renewable but not zero carbon or environmentally friendly?

Herein lays the problem that our ecoliberal tree hugging friends can’t comprehend. There needs to be a compromise. But these folk are rather uncompromising after all. You can’t have a totally clean source of energy on a scale akin to the national grid. Be it biomass, fossil or nuclear fuels, whatever you burn will emit a certain amount of nasty bi products. Biomass is probably the best route, as it bypasses the need for landfill, but any option means the nasty anti green C word, compromise

[carryfast]

OVLOV JAY:
The infrastructure will not be there in my lifetime at least, to allow this to happen. The national grid has a meltdown with everyone making a cuppa at half time of an England game, roughly 6 times a year. Imagine the strain if 10million cars or more were charging overnight. And the build quality will be shocking on cars and trucks, as they’ll skimp our to remain competitive. Just ask anyone who drives a version 4 fh about the plastic interior panels and reliability issues. They made a cheap product to offset the euro 6 technology costs. This is why a scania is way more expensive, as they haven’t compromised on finish. If an electric focus was built to the same quality as a petrol one, it’d be £50k plus

Yet another reason why it would be simpler to use all this supposed safe plentiful Electric to produce hydrogen from water and using that in conventional IC engines.

As for EV’s all the signs are that the manufacturers ( rightly ? ) see more profit potential,for them,in replacing conventional engines and drivelines,with an electric power and driveline package and then charging an internal combustion price and a bit more for the resulting toy.Which probably explains the manufacturers’ resistance to hydrogen fuelled ICE technology.

Obviously at the expense of the customer also subsidising that with all the required grid upgrades and battery costs let alone hauling all that unnecessary battery weight around.All that added to real world electricity tarrifs of at least 13 p per kWh + road fuel taxes.Probably ( a lot ) more when they’ve succeeded in creating their required captive market.

Then all crashing down around them when we get the first inevitable major European nuclear power disaster.At which point we’ll then see all those who are running this corrupt bs ‘climate change’ agenda running for the exit and diverting the blame for it.