Juddian:
We’ll know nuclear is safe when they site a massive power station on the Essex marshes, more chance of ■■■■■■■ in the queens handbag than that happening.
Seeing as we sacked off our nuclear experts we’ll get some foreigners in to design and build it, hopefully a smaller one could be housed inside the Battersea power buildings, London elite’s very own generator.
Better still, how about getting rid of all that arty crap in there, and bring this icon of Britain when Master of the World fully back online, burning coals from Newcastle again… “Make Britain Great Again” anyone? 
Winseer:
IronEddie:
I doubt fuel burning cars will be banned post 2040. It’s illogical and not at all practical.
They will probably be taxed higher and a scrapage scheme introduced.
The impact remember won’t just be on us as car users though. If no more petrol or diesel cars exist on a hard limit of 2040 then suddenly every petrol station closes down. It’ll be a gradual decline from 2040 people will slowly move from petrol to electric. Slowly the petrol stations will close or rebrand into something else. 2100 will arrive and there will still be petrol powered vehicles on UK roads. Just it won’t be the majority.
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Surely, that’s what is intended for the years 2018-2039 already?
I understood that the 2040 was the very final deadline for the last diehard Fossil-Fuel powered vehicles to be taken off our roads for good?
“Phasing Out” I think a 23 year period to do it all would be classed as…?
As I read it 2040 is when no new petrol/diesel cars including hybrids can be sold. But that doesn’t mean all existing fossil fuel vehicles have to be scrapped before then.
Britain to ban sale of all diesel and petrol cars and vans from 2040
theguardian.com/politics/20 … _clipboard
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IronEddie:
Britain to ban sale of all diesel and petrol cars and vans from 2040
theguardian.com/politics/20 … _clipboard
Which part of the words ‘sale’ and ‘new’ don’t the green car hating crusaders understand. 
IE it doesn’t say to ban ‘use’ of ‘all’ diesel and petrol cars from 2040.Nor would a ban on petrol and diesel necessarily mean a ban on ICE powered vehicles with alternatives like Hydrogen in that regard.No doubt the typical lentil munching cyclist Grauniad journalists and readers will try to write it and read it as they want it to be though.Although it will be interesting to see the arguments among the green loons and the hippies’ brains explode when they realise that their bs ‘renewables’ won’t cut it and they’ll have to go nuclear to meet their own idiotic aims of a fossil fuel free world.
Meanwhile they obviously aren’t also saying that they will stop production of all oil and gas fom UK reserves by that date.No doubt the greens haven’t got enough brains between then to ask themselves the question why.
You’re all over complicating it.(nothing new there) They’re simply banning the sale of NEW cars which are either petrol or diesel. You can still roll around in your petrol guzzling 25mpg amgs. Get over it, get with the times…
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Carryfast:
the nodding donkey:
I have a boat, so me and my loved ones will be fine.
I don’t think you’ve thought through all the implications of a mass panicked exodus of a large part of the population all running for the same coasts and airports,loss of food production capacity,and losses of real estate and homes that can never be returned to.That’s even assuming the authorities don’t just decide to say nothing and let nature take its course and/or your escape plan actually works.
We live at the coast. Duh. That’s where the boat is moored. (There tends to be more water around the coast than inland. Look it up on Wikipedia ).
the nodding donkey:
Carryfast:
the nodding donkey:
I have a boat, so me and my loved ones will be fine.
I don’t think you’ve thought through all the implications of a mass panicked exodus of a large part of the population all running for the same coasts and airports,loss of food production capacity,and losses of real estate and homes that can never be returned to.That’s even assuming the authorities don’t just decide to say nothing and let nature take its course and/or your escape plan actually works.
We live at the coast. Duh. That’s where the boat is moored. (There tends to be more water around the coast than inland. Look it up on Wikipedia ).
Great what could possibly go wrong.
So let’s get this right we make ourselves dependent,on an expensive dangerous energy policy,that has the potential to cause catastrophic threat to life and property.To the point of at best wrecking the economy and putting a large part of the population into homeless,destitute,refugee status.Because a few think that the escape potential provided by their access to a private boat would give them immunity from all the implications of that.Doesn’t exactly help the government’s case does it. 
Carryfast:
Winseer:
If Brexit can already be talked about being “overturned” - when we’ve voted for that, then surely it will be even easier to overturn “doing away with dependency on Petroleum” by those same powers that be…?
Queue: Trumped-up reduction in diplomacy with China, similar to the trumped-up downgrading of cheap Russian energy. Even Germany are being told by the US corporations right now to “stop using cheapo Russia stuff, and start paying more for ours - there’s trade sanctions on dontya know!”
There’s even the possibility that Western governments might like to make some kind of “back market” on trashed solar panels - to get the Lanthenides out of them, which China otherwise rations the rest of the world in.
Buy a solar panel, scrap it through some government scheme, and harvest the fancy mineral content.
Everyone is a winner except China. Even the Arab states are happy, because we didn’t wean ourselves off fossil fuels after all.
You seem to have missed the point that fossil fuel ‘dependency’ means more choice and more self sufficiency not less.Especially if we re access our coal reserves and we stop flogging off our oil and gas reserves and use them ourselves.On that note how do reach the conclusion that electricity dependency,is supposedly better than fossil fuel dependency or that it doesn’t effectively mean trading a lower dependency on Middle Eastern fuel supplies situation,for more dependency on foreign owned,more expensive,dangerous electricity generation,instead ?.
While I’m guessing you wouldn’t want to be first in the queue to want to heat your home with electricity instead of gas, let alone a situation in which your transport needs are also electricity dependent added to that,even now.Let alone when it’s provision inevitably becomes mostly a monopoly situation for the nuclear power industry with all the financial and safety implications of that.With road fuel duty also added to those costs.
While ironically in this case the establishment that is derailing Brexit is actually the same establishment that wants to create that captive market for the EV and electric energy industries,by removing the freedom of choice to use fossil fuels directly wherever possible.Not vice versa. 
I forgot to point out that I was talking about “Petroleum products ONLY” when I said “Fossil Fuels”. I don’t think I’ve seen a coal powered car - but I have heard of them. A quick search and…
was the first video I found of an actual “Coal Powered” car. Dunno what this “Rolling Coal” thing that comes up on all the searches is all about… That seems to involve burning Diesel/Kerosene still.
Anyone here an enthusiast on such things that would like to fill us all in?
Carryfast:
the nodding donkey:
Carryfast:
the nodding donkey:
I have a boat, so me and my loved ones will be fine.
I don’t think you’ve thought through all the implications of a mass panicked exodus of a large part of the population all running for the same coasts and airports,loss of food production capacity,and losses of real estate and homes that can never be returned to.That’s even assuming the authorities don’t just decide to say nothing and let nature take its course and/or your escape plan actually works.
We live at the coast. Duh. That’s where the boat is moored. (There tends to be more water around the coast than inland. Look it up on Wikipedia ).
Great what could possibly go wrong.
So let’s get this right we make ourselves dependent,on an expensive dangerous energy policy,that has the potential to cause catastrophic threat to life and property.To the point of at best wrecking the economy and putting a large part of the population into homeless,destitute,refugee status.Because a few think that the escape potential provided by their access to a private boat would give them immunity from all the implications of that.Doesn’t exactly help the government’s case does it.
Well, we’re gonna die and our species will extinct itself, so why drag it out and prolong the planets’ suffering? Press the buttons now I say.
Carryfast:
IronEddie:
Britain to ban sale of all diesel and petrol cars and vans from 2040
theguardian.com/politics/20 … _clipboard
Which part of the words ‘sale’ and ‘new’ don’t the green car hating crusaders understand.
IE it doesn’t say to ban ‘use’ of ‘all’ diesel and petrol cars from 2040.Nor would a ban on petrol and diesel necessarily mean a ban on ICE powered vehicles with alternatives like Hydrogen in that regard.No doubt the typical lentil munching cyclist Grauniad journalists and readers will try to write it and read it as they want it to be though.Although it will be interesting to see the arguments among the green loons and the hippies’ brains explode when they realise that their bs ‘renewables’ won’t cut it and they’ll have to go nuclear to meet their own idiotic aims of a fossil fuel free world.
Meanwhile they obviously aren’t also saying that they will stop production of all oil and gas fom UK reserves by that date.No doubt the greens haven’t got enough brains between then to ask themselves the question why.
Erm… If you ban the sale of “New” cars only, then despite causing a thriving second hand market (rather than killing it dead) - our entire market would be more in-tune with the third world model, where old bangers are well-maintained, and used well beyond their 20th year as standard. They also cost a bomb to buy. Fortunately, they don’t cost so much to “maintain”, because everyone has an uncle in that part of the world who, like Brits in the 70’s - is an automatic expert at the internal combustion engine, qualification or no.
If no one can afford the cheapest Electric model, or is unwilling to risk a substantial chunk of money on a car that could develop faulty wiring after driving it in the rain (like what happened to my first chance at a French piece of crap last year…) - Then are we talking about “Electric cars for rich former foreign property speculators to buy”? or something more subtle than that?
These first generation “Compulsory” electric vehicles are going to be overpriced, unreliable, and likely to benefit no one except Lead speculators. So much for the environment!
…Unless someone develops Mr Fusion in the ensuing years of course.
"Well, we’re gonna die and our species will extinct itself, so why drag it out and prolong the planets’ suffering? Press the buttons now I say.
[/quote]
"
Winseer:
Carryfast:
IronEddie:
Britain to ban sale of all diesel and petrol cars and vans from 2040
theguardian.com/politics/20 … _clipboard
Which part of the words ‘sale’ and ‘new’ don’t the green car hating crusaders understand.
IE it doesn’t say to ban ‘use’ of ‘all’ diesel and petrol cars from 2040.Nor would a ban on petrol and diesel necessarily mean a ban on ICE powered vehicles with alternatives like Hydrogen in that regard.No doubt the typical lentil munching cyclist Grauniad journalists and readers will try to write it and read it as they want it to be though.Although it will be interesting to see the arguments among the green loons and the hippies’ brains explode when they realise that their bs ‘renewables’ won’t cut it and they’ll have to go nuclear to meet their own idiotic aims of a fossil fuel free world.
Meanwhile they obviously aren’t also saying that they will stop production of all oil and gas fom UK reserves by that date.No doubt the greens haven’t got enough brains between then to ask themselves the question why.
Erm… If you ban the sale of “New” cars only, then despite causing a thriving second hand market (rather than killing it dead) - our entire market would be more in-tune with the third world model, where old bangers are well-maintained, and used well beyond their 20th year as standard. They also cost a bomb to buy. Fortunately, they don’t cost so much to “maintain”, because everyone has an uncle in that part of the world who, like Brits in the 70’s - is an automatic expert at the internal combustion engine, qualification or no. [emoji14]
If no one can afford the cheapest Electric model, or is unwilling to risk a substantial chunk of money on a car that could develop faulty wiring after driving it in the rain (like what happened to my first chance at a French piece of crap last year…) - Then are we talking about “Electric cars for rich former foreign property speculators to buy”? or something more subtle than that?
These first generation “Compulsory” electric vehicles are going to be overpriced, unreliable, and likely to benefit no one except Lead speculators. So much for the environment!
…Unless someone develops Mr Fusion in the ensuing years of course. [emoji14]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptlhgFaB89Y
Surely that’s why they’ve set the date for 2040. Twenty odd years to improve electric vehicles, make some affordable models and put in the infrastructure nation wide.
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You know what will happen though… “Brexit will be postponed until Affordable Electric Cars exist”. That’ll be a way of kicking both of them into the jungle forever - let alone the proverbial “Long Grass”… 
If it ties us up in knots for years - the EU will allow it, and encourage it. If it threatens to reduce their revenues/take away their jobs, give back their takers of our jobs, or reduce their power over us via their courts - then it’ll be resisted, banned, and argued against - no matter how good it is.
We don’t even have affordable housing any more. How does one create, develop, and sell an affordable anything this side of never?
Winseer:
I forgot to point out that I was talking about “Petroleum products ONLY” when I said “Fossil Fuels”. I don’t think I’ve seen a coal powered car - but I have heard of them. A quick search and…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUgVCR_658M
was the first video I found of an actual “Coal Powered” car. Dunno what this “Rolling Coal” thing that comes up on all the searches is all about… That seems to involve burning Diesel/Kerosene still.
Anyone here an enthusiast on such things that would like to fill us all in?
Coal can easily be turned into ‘petroleum products’ like petrol and therefore LPG.
As I said maybe you’d like to start your closet green crusade by removing the freedom of choice to use gas in domestic heating systems to go all electric.
The relevant bit is that ( luckily unless anyone is a green crusader ) we’re talking about the freedom of choice to use petrol fuelled vehicles until and after 2040 and that’s what the Greens don’t like because they know that given the choice no one with any sense will want to drive a zb battery powered EV toy.Hopefully by which time people will realise the extent,expense and dangers of the scam that’s being foisted on them and we can chuck the whole idea on the scrap heap together with the climate change agenda where it belongs.
It seems that the majority of posts reject this proposal. This may appear to be counter intuitive as the proposal could lead to a cleaner, healthier environment for us and out families and a safer and more economic business environment helping us to compete when we leave the biggest richest market the world has ever seen.
Winseer:
You know what will happen though… “Brexit will be postponed until Affordable Electric Cars exist”. That’ll be a way of kicking both of them into the jungle forever - let alone the proverbial “Long Grass”…
If it ties us up in knots for years - the EU will allow it, and encourage it. If it threatens to reduce their revenues/take away their jobs, give back their takers of our jobs, or reduce their power over us via their courts - then it’ll be resisted, banned, and argued against - no matter how good it is.
We don’t even have affordable housing any more. How does one create, develop, and sell an affordable anything this side of never?
The issue is all about Greens and a corrupt big business agenda trying to impose their will on everyone by removing the freedom of choice to use ICE powered vehicles.That issue applies before or after Brexit in or out of the EU.IE it’s got absolutely zb all to do with Brexit ‘if’ we even get Brexit.Ironically for your argument UKIP at least seeming to be more sympathetic to my type of energy policy than yours.
Carryfast:
The relevant bit is that ( luckily unless anyone is a green crusader ) we’re talking about the freedom of choice to use petrol fuelled vehicles until and after 2040 and that’s what the Greens don’t like because they know that given the choice no one with any sense will want to drive a zb battery powered EV toy.Hopefully by which time people will realise the extent,expense and dangers of the scam that’s being foisted on them and we can chuck the whole idea on the scrap heap together with the climate change agenda where it belongs.
You are a perfect example why decisions that affect the future, should only be voted on by young people, who have to live with the ■■■■ heap that selfish, stupid, shortsighted and downright vindictive voters like you create. Because of your selfish desire to drive a rust bucket from the past, no matter the consequences, and because of your ‘little Englander rules the waves’ attitude, you, for the few years that you have left, have set this country’s, and the young and future generations of this country, future back by decades.
Winseer:
You know what will happen though… “Brexit will be postponed until Affordable Electric Cars exist”. That’ll be a way of kicking both of them into the jungle forever - let alone the proverbial “Long Grass”…
If it ties us up in knots for years - the EU will allow it, and encourage it. If it threatens to reduce their revenues/take away their jobs, give back their takers of our jobs, or reduce their power over us via their courts - then it’ll be resisted, banned, and argued against - no matter how good it is.
We don’t even have affordable housing any more. How does one create, develop, and sell an affordable anything this side of never?
Tin foil hat much.
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Optimum:
It seems that the majority of posts reject this proposal. This may appear to be counter intuitive as the proposal could lead to a cleaner, healthier environment for us and out families and a safer and more economic business environment helping us to compete when we leave the biggest richest market the world has ever seen.
How does creating a captive market for and making us dependent on an expensive,inefficient and dangerous form of energy supposedly provide us with a healthier,safer and more economic business environment.Although feel free match your money with your rhetoric by installing an electric domestic heating system and then let us know what your winter fuel bills are.
While if we really want to ‘compete’ then getting our coal industry up and running again and keeping what remains of our oil and gas reserves for ourselves instead of flogging them off is the way to go.
the nodding donkey:
Carryfast:
The relevant bit is that ( luckily unless anyone is a green crusader ) we’re talking about the freedom of choice to use petrol fuelled vehicles until and after 2040 and that’s what the Greens don’t like because they know that given the choice no one with any sense will want to drive a zb battery powered EV toy.Hopefully by which time people will realise the extent,expense and dangers of the scam that’s being foisted on them and we can chuck the whole idea on the scrap heap together with the climate change agenda where it belongs.
You are a perfect example why decisions that affect the future, should only be voted on by young people, who have to live with the [zb] heap that selfish, stupid, shortsighted and downright vindictive voters like you create. Because of your selfish desire to drive a rust bucket from the past, no matter the consequences, and because of your ‘little Englander rules the waves’ attitude, you, for the few years that you have left, have set this country’s, and the young and future generations of this country, future back by decades.
Says the green crusader who wants to risk other people’s lives and property with an inevitable potentially catastrophic nuclear accident.On the basis that he lives near the coast and has a private boat that he thinks will allow him to escape all of the resulting mess.While I’m guessing that you’re another one who hasn’t put your money where your rhetoric is in making an example of going all electric at home.Instead of choosing cheaper more efficient gas fuelled heating.
As for ‘young people’ yes we know easily brainwashed conformist establishment voting drones acting like turkeys voting for Christmas.That’s why they are all cycling around emulating their tour de france heroes to save their guvnors paying them enough to afford a decent car.
