Carryfast:
lancpudn:
Another EV charging company Gridserve is upping it’s ev charging prices with immediate effect rising from 30p/kWh to 39p/kWh for their medium power chargers (60kW) & their high powered chargers (up to 350kW) are rising to 45p/kWh. fleetnews.co.uk/news/latest … ling-costs
So the equivalent of around £4 to do 25 miles at 2.5 miles per kwh + road fuel duty and 20% VAT + battery costs.
Bearing in mind that most cars can manage around 30 miles on a £7 gallon ‘including’ road fuel duty and 20% VAT.
Assuming hydrogen for the equivalent price of diesel becomes reality as stated, there will be a lot of EV manufacturing investors left with egg on their faces.
It’s up to the manufacturers whether they want to sink with the failed EV idea or swim by keeping the faith with ICE powered products, which can remain compliant with rules post 2030 and which their customer base clearly wants to keep and which will be the only way to sustain present taxation revenues without financially crippling that revenue stream.
Just glad my EV usage means I have nowt to do with those expensive public chargers but saying that our daughter is using our MG EV until her Ford Kuga is repaired & back on the road, £717 two weeks ago to repair the heating system & three days later the clutch goes belly up, All common Kuga problems according to the forums.
I’ve been charging it every night for her over the last week or so as she does much more mileage than we do. I’d hate to think how she’d cope with having no off road home charging 
Yes Hydrogen will play a big part in the de-carbonization but not for at least a decade & then freight transport will get the first dibs on that. It was decided back in 2015 that e-transport would prevail over other means of energy as there wont be enough bio-fuels for the remaining ICE vehicles on the road as it stands today plus bio-fuels will still have a carbon pricing on it which will make it more expensive for the average motorist.
Speaking of investors The money people have decided there’s no way back for Gas to be classed as a green sustainable energy, Climate investors worth €50 trillion call on the EU to exclude gas from green finance taxonomy euractiv.com/section/energy … -taxonomy/ Fun times ahead.
lancpudn:
Carryfast:
So the equivalent of around £4 to do 25 miles at 2.5 miles per kwh + road fuel duty and 20% VAT + battery costs.
Bearing in mind that most cars can manage around 30 miles on a £7 gallon ‘including’ road fuel duty and 20% VAT.
Assuming hydrogen for the equivalent price of diesel becomes reality as stated, there will be a lot of EV manufacturing investors left with egg on their faces.
It’s up to the manufacturers whether they want to sink with the failed EV idea or swim by keeping the faith with ICE powered products, which can remain compliant with rules post 2030 and which their customer base clearly wants to keep and which will be the only way to sustain present taxation revenues without financially crippling that revenue stream.
Just glad my EV usage means I have nowt to do with those expensive public chargers but saying that our daughter is using our MG EV until her Ford Kuga is repaired & back on the road, £717 two weeks ago to repair the heating system & three days later the clutch goes belly up, All common Kuga problems according to the forums.
I’ve been charging it every night for her over the last week or so as she does much more mileage than we do. I’d hate to think how she’d cope with having no off road home charging
Yes Hydrogen will play a big part in the de-carbonization but not for at least a decade & then freight transport will get the first dibs on that. It was decided back in 2015 that e-transport would prevail over other means of energy as there wont be enough bio-fuels for the remaining ICE vehicles on the road as it stands today plus bio-fuels will still have a carbon pricing on it which will make it more expensive for the average motorist.
Speaking of investors The money people have decided there’s no way back for Gas to be classed as a green sustainable energy, Climate investors worth €50 trillion call on the EU to exclude gas from green finance taxonomy euractiv.com/section/energy … -taxonomy/ Fun times ahead.
Why should any non fossil fuel Carbon based fuel be subject to any fossil fuel carbon penalty.
There’s no way that the home charging suppliers are going to lose out compared to their outside charging counterparts.
BP didn’t say that it could only provide sufficient hydrogen supplies for commercials and it’s obvious that smaller car engines suited to hydrogen fuel will be available before large spark ignition truck engines become common place.
Have to say the clearly anti ICE luddites are flogging a dead worthless horse in the EV idea.It’s too expensive to work and it will break the tax system.Cold cash will decide this and EV’s have already lost any economic argument in their favour.
Those figures I’ve provided prove it and all you’ve got in reply is that the domestic energy suppliers are going to be a loss leading charity to maintain even the slightest case for EV’s.
Any sensible investor will have bailed out of the expensive battery powered liability of EV’s, in favour of hydrogen fuelled ICE, before that.
Even if the government could afford the tax hit to make 40p per kwh + battery costs before tax viable, which it clearly can’t.
ICE wins again just like it did from the start.
lancpudn:
Speaking of investors The money people have decided there’s no way back for Gas to be classed as a green sustainable energy, Climate investors worth €50 trillion call on the EU to exclude gas from green finance taxonomy euractiv.com/section/energy … -taxonomy/ Fun times ahead.
They want to throw out the least of all evils in the form of fossil fuel but then they are obviously also getting cold feet about the backlash in the predictable event of nuclear going wrong in a big way and that together with anything but green biomass is the only way to keep the lights on when the wind isn’t blowing and without the hydro electric resources of Switzerland or Norway.
Fun times ahead requiring lots of popcorn and beer while watching them spiralling into the meltdown of their own oxymorons and arguments.
If a French nuclear plant doesn’t decide to end the whole climate fiasco by melting down first or Europe’s water supply gets taken out by leaking French radioactive waste.It really won’t take long to wipe lots of noughts off of that trillions figure in a world of instant digital transactions.
The truth is the wheels are coming off the European Climate agenda mainly because the Fatherland doesn’t want to get nuked by lethal French nuclear energy interests and policy after having the country covered in the fall out of the Chernobyl disaster previously.Which is what this was always all about.Any true Green has long ago realised that CO2 is a far lesser evil than Nuclear power especially if we add to our forestry rather than burning it for biomass power generation.
reuters.com/markets/europe/e … 021-12-15/
forbes.com/sites/arielcohen/ … =21ea276b7
The EU’s ‘Green brief/Fit for 55%’ policies said the freight industry would need to have the first bite of the hydrogen cherry as that industry would be the hardest one to de-carbonize and will be hit with huge carbon pricing fines in 2025 just like the private car was in 2020.
I see the plans for the development of the Coventry gigafactory have been given the go ahead. edie.net/news/8/Coventry-ba … -go-ahead/
lancpudn:
The EU’s ‘Green brief/Fit for 55%’ policies said the freight industry would need to have the first bite of the hydrogen cherry as that industry would be the hardest one to de-carbonize and will be hit with huge carbon pricing fines in 2025 just like the private car was in 2020.
I see the plans for the development of the Coventry gigafactory have been given the go ahead. edie.net/news/8/Coventry-ba … -go-ahead/
It’s obvious that hydrogen fuelled ICE cars can be on the scene faster than any move to spark ignition truck engines.
Also not seen any statements by BP that it couldn’t cover both bases in terms of production and why wouldn’t it want the economies of scale provided by having that combined market to justify the investment in the required infrastructure even more.
The truth is the anti ICE zealots are now clutching at straws using any excuse they can find to justify ending ICE production when that clearly isn’t what the 2030 rule says and ironically would remove the best option if it did.
While it’s equally clear that 40p per kwh + road fuel taxes + 20% VAT + the cost of batteries is economically unviable for all concerned not least government tax revenues.
If hydrogen can be provided at the stated equivalent cost of diesel it really is all over for the EV market.
Now awaits the EV zealots calling for hydrogen to be taxed out of the frame to keep their dreams of an end to ICE, let alone Tesla’s etc shareholders’ alive.
At least that would prove that it was never anything to do with CO2 unsurprisingly at 0.04% of the atmosphere and the fact that it didn’t even cook Venus it was the pressure and the blazing Sun there which did it.
There’s hope on the horizon yet! BMW ZF supplier aims to convert diesel engines into hydrogen-fuelled powerplants. One thing reading this piece I didn’t know is just how big the tank would have to be to hold 4kg of hydrogen, It said it would need to be100 litres!!! Which would be an awkward size tank to fit intro something like a smallish sized hatch batch. todaynewspost.com/auto-news/bmw … werplants/
lancpudn:
There’s hope on the horizon yet! BMW ZF supplier aims to convert diesel engines into hydrogen-fuelled powerplants. One thing reading this piece I didn’t know is just how big the tank would have to be to hold 4kg of hydrogen, It said it would need to be100 litres!!! Which would be an awkward size tank to fit intro something like a smallish sized hatch batch. todaynewspost.com/auto-news/bmw … werplants/
If BMW could produce a viable combined petrol and hydrogen fuelled V12 package with no significant tankage provision issues then a dedicated hydrogen only package can only be easier to locate.
While trucks already provide much more scope especially if we see a move away from the artic configuration to the scandinavian type rigid and trailer one which would be needed in the case of EV type trucks anyway.The difference being that hydrogen fuelled ICE wouldn’t be crippled by battery weight let alone expense.
I’d guess the EV investors will be ■■■■■■■■ themselves if the claim of hydrogen at the equivalent price of diesel by 2023 turns into reality.
While the laughable obstacles being invented by the EV interests against hydrogen seems to suggest that they are already getting desperate in that regard.
As it stands at face value the rules say that hydrogen fuelled ICE is ok and BP at least seems to be standing by that.In which case it makes as much sense for cars as it does for trucks with the win win that providing for both just creates more justification for the required investment.While obviously also being more in line with maintaining the present fuel retailing environment than a move to home charging etc would.
As for diesel conversion I long ago made the case for large scale conversion of diesels to spark ignition LPG as an alternative fuel transition strategy.While BMW had already proved the viability of Hydrogen fuelled ICE with the V12 powered 7 series over 10 years ago.
I see Mayor Khan now wants to scrap the congestion charge for a pay per mile scheme & curb private car use even more. He also wants to extend the CAZ from the north-south circular roads to the whole of greater London transport-network.co.uk/Kha … ions/17554
lancpudn:
I see Mayor Khan now wants to scrap the congestion charge for a pay per mile scheme & curb private car use even more. He also wants to extend the CAZ from the north-south circular roads to the whole of greater London transport-network.co.uk/Kha … ions/17554
Surely you mean the ULEZ ?.
It can only help any campaign to return most of the so called ‘outer London’ Boroughs to the home counties that they were stolen from.Shame about Middx but mostly his own vote anyway so let em put up with it.
Looks like Scotland is in for more of the same too regards private car use. transport.gov.scot/media/50 … y-2030.pdf
Who would have thought that BP EV chargers are on the cusp of profitability over filling up a petrol car at their pumps so soon in the game. 933thedrive.com/2022/01/14/ … lity-race/
lancpudn:
Who would have thought that BP EV chargers are on the cusp of profitability over filling up a petrol car at their pumps so soon in the game. 933thedrive.com/2022/01/14/ … lity-race/
It’s only ‘on the cusp’ of being ‘profitable’ because it isn’t ( yet ) subject to road fuel duty + 20% VAT like petrol.
40p per kwh + road fuel duty + 20% won’t even be saleable let alone profitable.
Carryfast:
lancpudn:
Who would have thought that BP EV chargers are on the cusp of profitability over filling up a petrol car at their pumps so soon in the game. 933thedrive.com/2022/01/14/ … lity-race/
It’s only ‘on the cusp’ of being ‘profitable’ because it isn’t ( yet ) subject to road fuel duty + 20% VAT like petrol.
40p per kwh + road fuel duty + 20% won’t even be saleable let alone profitable.
The details of the very last Euro Cat 7 emission standard will be known in April this year & from what I’ve read it will effectively be the end of new ICE vehicles in 2025 five years early.
They’re proposing to tighten the 55% emission limit from 2021 standards which would mean a 37.5% reduction on car emissions in 2025 to a 75% tighter reduction emission limit. They seem to be getting public backing for it too in a recent poll. electrive.com/2022/01/14/eu … -new-cars/
transportenvironment.org/di … ons-rules/
lancpudn:
Carryfast:
lancpudn:
Who would have thought that BP EV chargers are on the cusp of profitability over filling up a petrol car at their pumps so soon in the game. 933thedrive.com/2022/01/14/ … lity-race/
It’s only ‘on the cusp’ of being ‘profitable’ because it isn’t ( yet ) subject to road fuel duty + 20% VAT like petrol.
40p per kwh + road fuel duty + 20% won’t even be saleable let alone profitable.
The details of the very last Euro Cat 7 emission standard will be known in April this year & from what I’ve read it will effectively be the end of new ICE vehicles in 2025 five years early.
They’re proposing to tighten the 55% emission limit from 2021 standards which would mean a 37.5% reduction on car emissions in 2025 to a 75% tighter reduction emission limit. They seem to be getting public backing for it too in a recent poll. electrive.com/2022/01/14/eu … -new-cars/
transportenvironment.org/di … ons-rules/
A poll among their selected useful idiot supporters they mean.
Hopefully hydrogen at the price of diesel will fix that then the anti ICE zealots will move the goal posts against that.
Bearing in mind we’re not an EU member state and the ‘government’ clearly said 2030 not deliberately effectively ending ICE car sales in 2025.
Which itself goes against the principle of no government being bound by the actions of a previous one.In which case why bother with an election every 5 years.
Cars and/or driving them as we have over the last 50 years, are quickly dying out. Brock Yates (founder of The Cannonball Run) forecast in 1971 when he started the event/protest that we are all heading for ‘1984’ and he was bang on the money (or buck in his case).
As of July this year all new cars must be fitted with speed limiters (although current legislation allows them to be turned off). Other proposals associated with this mandate include black boxes recording speeding ‘events’, etc.
Along with GPF filters and all the other safety ‘■■■■■■■■’ the sporting car is almost dead anyway. I sold my M4 over a year ago now and although I miss it greatly, the fuel cost, the speed camera’s and the sheer amount of knobs on the road no longer made driving it fun. Mine was a 2015 car, can you imagine buying a new one this year that sounds like a Dyson cleaner with an EU spy system fitted to it?
Our Gov simply want to wander around the world willy waving about how we are vaccinated world leading, carbon neutral superstars, saving motorists from themselves & planting trees along with telling the whole [zb]ing globe how to live.
It’s sadly becoming embarrassing to be British 
It’s little wonder why many countries hate us.
Bentley has thrown it’s hat into the ring to start making electric cars with a £2.5billion investment in it’s Crewe factory to start making them in the coming years. Thank goodness it’s keeping the jobs there. edie.net/news/13/Bentley-ri … EVs-in-UK/
Nissan has just announced that the successor for the Micra will be an all new compact electric model. motor1.com/news/563511/niss … or-teased/
I see the changes in the highway code now include rules about EV charging.
"Using an electric vehicle charge point
For the first time, the code includes guidance about using electric vehicle charging points.
When using one, people should:
park close to the charge point and avoid creating a trip hazard for people walking from trailing cables
display a warning sign if you can
return charging cables and connectors neatly to minimise the danger to other people and avoid creating an obstacle for other road users"
Reading between the lines does this mean EV owners will need to put up a triangular warning sign when plugged in to public chargers or charging their EV’s from the house with a charging cable laying over the pavement to avoid being sued by someone claiming they tripped over the unseen charging cable?
