Peoplenet Blu2 E-Log?

Pat Hasler:
We use the regular Peoplenet E logs, I love them (unless it prevents me for getting home when I had planned on it). We have asked for ‘E Log’ stickers but to no avail. I hear such BS from drivers who say they “just ain’t gonna work if they have to use them” … yeah right ! they will use them because they will have no choice. I know of some companies that have switched over and the drivers are loosing money due to the fact they before the change they ran as bent as nine bob notes :laughing:

Unfortunetely 99% of Americans and Canadians dont work for Foodliner and dont get paid to sit around doing nothing. Hence my wish to change the method of payment before even thinking about anything else. Hourly pay may not be the way forward, personally I’d be happy with a fixed day rate and then a milleage based bonus on top of that to encourage productivity in what would otherwise breed the lazy work ethic many in the UK now have but would also offer a decent amount of protection to drivers who are forced to sit around against their will and as such would encourage companies to work their trucks better. Either way, I certainly dont wish any sort of government electronic device controlling my life. I’ve left one over bearing nanny state for that reason, no desire to live or work in another.

robinhood_1984:

mickfly:
You were tired and didn’t want to do it, BUT you still ran 2hrs over whilst tired? That is why the E-logs have been introduced, not Government control as such!
Whilst I understand the crap parking on the dirty side of the country, I wouldn’t choose to run there and if you are unable to stay legal and safe, maybe it’s time to try a different Province as a base. There were at least two Canadian drivers from the East working for Watt and Stewart in AB as they couldn’t earn good rates over there, and were sick of the same kind of driving/parking which you describe.

The mileage pay is a problem.

If you were paid by the hour you would have to be managed differently by your dispatcher, which would HAVE TO include rest periods and legal shutdowns, in safe places, you would also be able to manage your own time better, without worrying about losing money.
Unfortunately, if you were paid by the hour you might just work a lot less than the legal 70/8 or 70/7, which would break a lot of companies who love to see drivers kill themselves trying to make a buck.

Yes Mick, I carried on so that I could park up in a safe place, which i did in the end and not somewhere where my truck was getting rocked around all night by passing traffic, not to mention the noise. People in the UK get killed while sleeping in laybys, or running in to the back of trucks parked in them, I’m not about to start playing that stupid game here. I consider it to be safer for myself to run 2 hours over a 14 in the US and then take 10 hours proper rest, than to play gypsy camp site on the slip road and have 10 hours of constant noise, waking up, worrying about being crashed in to and expecting the knock on the door at any minute by a state trooper ordering me on to one of the many parking places that dont exist. As for not choosing to run there, I just go where I’m sent, I’m a company employee not a director. If they have a load to Vigrinia then I go to Virginia. They never expect or want me to run bent, but theres no avoiding the fact that Virginia is on the main I81 trunk route and has nowhere near enough parking as everything running from the NE down to Texas passes through there. Ultimately if our Fuhrers want us to park up without exception within 11hrs driving or 14hrs duty then we can only do so if there’s actually somewhere for us to park. Refusing to go to half the continent isn’t solving the problem, its just going to get me sacked for being a useless entity to the company.
Paper log books didn’t make your job crap at H&R, H&R are just a reefer company and thats how they behave, many of them here in NB are now on elogs doing reefers and they still sit around all day and then either earn no money, or bow to pressure from the office as they’ve already had 8 hours on the bay and are ordered to sit tight for two more hours and then drive all night, totally legally and then once they’ve started the clock they have to crack on because time is ticking, unlike on a paper log where you can sleep wheen you feel you need it and adjust accordingly. In my opinion your last job on the flatbeds/low loaders was only good because it was a good oraganised job anyway, that would have been the case even if you were on paper logs. I love the current job I’m in and I’m on paper logs, yet I dont run day and night like on reefers to make a wage, now and then I get caught out at places but most days stop well within my time as I’m covering such good ground legally but have the freedom and liberty to move off card if the situation dictates. Ie for a quieter nights sleep further down the rest area when some prick in an old Columbia parks next to you at 2am on high idle with every panel on his truck lose and vibrating causing you to wake up with no chance of getting any proper sleep from that point onwards. There is absolutely nothing wrong with anyone wishing to move because of that, its safer and its common sense. This fixation with controlling our every move and making us be a prisoner to the truck for 10 hours is nonsense best left in Europe.

The organisation of actual driving was down to each individual driver and I nearly always did my 70/7 or 70/8 either rolling my hours to avoid a reset, or hammering it, with big days and fitting in some small days depending on the daylight hours.
I always managed to park up safely, although not always in the nicest places, and very often in pull outs, having stopped at a truck stop for a shower earlier. Plenty of food on board, and never parked on the shoulder. I would rather park somewhere safe 2 hrs before my 14 ran out than keep going for two hours after it ran out! The job also meant that we have to maximise all daylight hours whilst carrying O/D loads, and again, I always managed to get parked up ok. I maxed my ‘card’ every trip, and stayed legal, and we did do runs over in PA, VA and NC.
The company did not want us to run illegally and with paper logs they would have struggled to prove it, whereas with E-logs, we MUST run legally, or get sacked, but I would still run over my time in an emergency to get to a safe place then note it on the e-log.

I’m sure we won’t agree on this subject robin, but as long as drivers keep tearing up and re-starting paper log books, things will never change as the companies love it!

We use paper logs but have no need to rip them up and start again. Out office expect a full days work but see pretty efficient at keeping Down time to a minimum.
I can see how log books can be taken advantage of by company’s that don’t work clever.
I personally think mileage pay is a bigger problem than log books and if this was changed it would clean up dodgy running.
It seems where I am been a smaller firm they need the trucks moving to make it pay so we very rarely sit waiting for loads. But it’s easier for big firms to let drivers sit which then encourages running bent to make it up.

The first company I drove CDL for here has switched to E logs but although they pay by the mile and not too high a rate either but they did it fairly … all waiting time is paid by the hour, they get $40 for every drop, $35 for every pick up, if they run out of hours and are prevented from getting back to the yard for the next days run they get $180 for the lost day. I think that as a small family run company they are doing a damm good job.

Pat Hasler:
The first company I drove CDL for here has switched to E logs but although they pay by the mile and not too high a rate either but they did it fairly … all waiting time is paid by the hour, they get $40 for every drop, $35 for every pick up, if they run out of hours and are prevented from getting back to the yard for the next days run they get $180 for the lost day. I think that as a small family run company they are doing a damm good job.

Maybe you can shed some light on this Pat, but it seems to me that quite a lot of American companies/drivers seem to run on a never ending 8:45 per day 7 days per week and hardly ever go home? In Canada we need to have a ful 24 hours off per 14 days but even so, that sort of working is unheared of here, we all seem to hammer it every day and try and get back within our 70 and then have 36 hours or two or three days off in between, resetting on the road is sometimes a necesary evil but avoided if possible. From talking to many at the larger American firms it seems they just drift around the continent doing lots of little short distance trips with loads of waiting and messing around in between. A prime example being a Martens driver who lives in Oklahoma, I met him in Salt Lake City and he’d been out for about two months at that point, gone almost coast to coast but on lots of short time consuming hops. He also said that he went over his time on his elog to go and park somewhere with a motel as his APU had broken down and his truck only idles for 3 or 5 minutes before shutting off but that his office re-wrote his log on their computer to make it look fine. Is that, can the office play Mickey Mouse with your logs, even if you as the driver cant? Not being funny, but if this is true many NB reefer companies will be abusing their drivers even more now by readjusting their log books to write out the movements between delays and then threaten them with the sack if they dont proceed to drive all night.

Whoever Pats talking about it seems a good gig in all honesty, I’m gobsmacked when I talk to OTR drivers in The USA they just seem to bumble about on shortish trips of like 500 miles or less & some barely ever go home, I think on the whole Canadian/USA type work is a much better job in terms of miles & tipping/unloading isnt so prevolent for us either…

robinhood_1984:

Pat Hasler:
The first company I drove CDL for here has switched to E logs but although they pay by the mile and not too high a rate either but they did it fairly … all waiting time is paid by the hour, they get $40 for every drop, $35 for every pick up, if they run out of hours and are prevented from getting back to the yard for the next days run they get $180 for the lost day. I think that as a small family run company they are doing a damm good job.

Maybe you can shed some light on this Pat, but it seems to me that quite a lot of American companies/drivers seem to run on a never ending 8:45 per day 7 days per week and hardly ever go home? In Canada we need to have a ful 24 hours off per 14 days but even so, that sort of working is unheared of here, we all seem to hammer it every day and try and get back within our 70 and then have 36 hours or two or three days off in between, resetting on the road is sometimes a necesary evil but avoided if possible. From talking to many at the larger American firms it seems they just drift around the continent doing lots of little short distance trips with loads of waiting and messing around in between. A prime example being a Martens driver who lives in Oklahoma, I met him in Salt Lake City and he’d been out for about two months at that point, gone almost coast to coast but on lots of short time consuming hops. He also said that he went over his time on his elog to go and park somewhere with a motel as his APU had broken down and his truck only idles for 3 or 5 minutes before shutting off but that his office re-wrote his log on their computer to make it look fine. Is that, can the office play Mickey Mouse with your logs, even if you as the driver cant? Not being funny, but if this is true many NB reefer companies will be abusing their drivers even more now by readjusting their log books to write out the movements between delays and then threaten them with the sack if they dont proceed to drive all night.

We had at least 2 drivers who continually rolled at 8.45 driving, with just 24 off when legally required, or even a bigger reset if they liked.
Yes e-logs can be fixed, but only for mistakes, not intentional mis-use AFAIK. We went for a bevy one night at North Portal with a driver, and in the AM he realised he had been on duty all night, but a call to the office got it fixed so the down time showed as off duty. I crossed the border going south after only having had an 8 and 2 break and my hours went to zero, this could not be fixed and I had to have 10 hrs off.
BTW: Hammering does not always pay off. I ran from Claresholm AB to Texas, empty to SC for re-load then back to Claresholm without reset on road, had 36 off and did same again, so 2 full trips in month (and the end of another trip in first few days of month) with only one reset. If I had hammered, I would probably have busted my hours on way to SC and needed a 36.

mickfly:
Yes e-logs can be fixed, but only for mistakes, not intentional mis-use AFAIK. We went for a bevy one night at North Portal with a driver, and in the AM he realised he had been on duty all night, but a call to the office got it fixed so the down time showed as off duty. I crossed the border going south after only having had an 8 and 2 break and my hours went to zero, this could not be fixed and I had to have 10 hrs off.

Dunno Mick, he said he’d gone over his either his 11 or his 14 by 20 or 30 minutes to get somewhere with a motel and called his office for them to OK it, to which they said for him not to worry, they’d change his log for it to all look ok once he’d parked up.

Personally I’m 100% behind Robinhood here, but that’s because of the way we’re paid, I’ve copied and pasted an article on elogs that I did for a Canadian magazine, it may give you food for thought :wink:

It’s time for me to throw my two cents worth into the EOBR debate, as someone who has many years experience of a ‘Spy in the cab’ I’ve got a good idea of what the EOBR will do to trucking. I’m a driver, through choice, the most enjoyable part of my job is the freedom I have at work, freedom that the EOBR will take away from me……Or will it?

The simple answer is NO, in the long term it will not affect me one bit, sure it will track my every movement, but that’s already being done by a multitude of other stuff. Cell phones send out a signal to the cell towers, it’s a simple process for the Phone Company to track every move I make, Law Enforcement can subpoena these records if they need to, it’s unlikely that DOT will, but the facility is there. Electronic toll tags also record times, dates and vehicle details. Scale houses and PrePass record the same details, but add axle spacing, speed and weight to the recorded details. Gate logs at shippers/receivers have time and date stamps on them, most now log you in to a computer, everything is timed. Then we have fuel receipts, even swiping a loyalty card for a coffee or a shower puts you in a specific location at a specific time, as do credit card receipts and so on, in short, most things drivers fear about the EOBR are already being done.

The only way to avoid any of the above is to run through the bush, don’t buy fuel, don’t shower and don’t buy any food or drink, not a lot of point doing that, it’s a very short term solution to a problem that, if you plan your trip properly, doesn’t exist, unless you’re an outlaw trucker, in which case you don’t belong in the industry in the first place.

So what do we have to look forward to when the EOBR is mandated, notice I say ‘when’ not ‘if’, they’re coming our way, I’ve just fired up my Crystal Ball so trust me on this! I happen to think that for both drivers and carriers alike it will be a good thing overall, short term, it will be a nightmare, appointments will be missed, drivers will be running out of time left, right and center. That will soon get sorted out, Under normal circumstances the driver is expected to overcome all the obstacles that get in the way, a Winnipeg-Calgary or a Toronto-Montreal turn can be done within a 13hr driving day……on paper, but throw in some weather or a back up, or frozen brakes, or a line up at a fuel stop etc etc etc, then the only way to do it is to be ‘creative’.

There’s an old saying ‘Today’s favor is tomorrow’s job’ that explains creativity, in far too many operations it’s expected now, the planners and their computer screens know no better, the job gets done as the computer says it will, but it’s the driver that makes it happen, not some fancy program that works out distances and average speeds, speeds which are often the maximum in the Province or State. Far from being the Holy Grail, these programs are among the worse things ever to happen to trucking, properly run companies will say they improve efficiency, they can, if used correctly, but far too many use it as an absolute, the computer says it takes xxhrs, then it better not take any longer.

Dispatch can say to drivers ‘Well the computer says it can be done in xxhrs, why did it take you an extra hour?’ The driver then feels pressured not to have that conversation again and the next time, he skips lunch or a shower and gets creative so it never happened. The EOBR will switch the onus back to the office, we have a responsibility to do our best for our companies/customers, but it has a limit, the EOBR will draw the lines that we all have to work to, planners and dispatchers will have to change their game too.

The programs also keep rates down, in the winter or in the big cities, what used to be possible isn’t anymore, yet the rates haven’t risen to take into account the extra time, which can be as much as an extra day per week when it’s all added up, so carriers are actually responsible for the thing they all moan about the most, low rates.

It’s way past the time that the industry stood up for itself, we have a real problem with saying NO, now we don’t have to anymore, the little black box in the cab will do that for all of us, drivers will have to be paid more. There’s already talk of a shortage, more will be needed, how will that happen? Simple, more money, so that’s a good thing for us, but what about our employers/customers, the same applies, more trucks will be needed, they’ll be able to name their price and so they should. Okay, all this money will come from somewhere, the extra charge to shippers will be passed on to the consumer, but so what? We’ll be earning more money than we are now, we won’t even notice the increase!

For far too long transport costs have been artificially low, we’re not a commodity, we’re THE most important industry in the economy, yet we all, for the most part, compete on price first and foremost, with the lowest being the best to everyone but ourselves, the EOBR will, if we do it right, change all that.

Personally I like things as they are right now, I’m a professional, I work alongside professionals, we all know how to do the job properly, but we live in the age of machines and technology, as sure as night follows day, they’re coming down the Pike, we need to work out the benefits they can bring rather than concentrate all our time and energy on moaning about them. We’ve got to adapt or we become Dinosaurs, we all know what happened to those guys…………

kr79:
We use paper logs but have no need to rip them up and start again. Out office expect a full days work but see pretty efficient at keeping Down time to a minimum.
I can see how log books can be taken advantage of by company’s that don’t work clever.
I personally think mileage pay is a bigger problem than log books and if this was changed it would clean up dodgy running.
It seems where I am been a smaller firm they need the trucks moving to make it pay so we very rarely sit waiting for loads. But it’s easier for big firms to let drivers sit which then encourages running bent to make it up.

99.9% of the time it’s the drivers that aint bright enough to work clever :laughing:
The dodgy running is by the driver not the company and any driver that is prepared to run like that is not a professional driver and should not have a licence to drive a truck.

was thinking about 2000 wages here “uk” seemed to be doing alright then along comes all the nice people from all over europe then all back to square one with the best will in the world and i wish you all well with it but think you will get shagged it always happens…

Tell the truth I’m earning about the same here as I did in the uk but for more hours. But you can’t compare £ for $ its about living costs where you live. From what I see housing cars and fuel is cheaper than back in England everything else about the same but you can save a few quid shopping in the states.
Face facts a lorry driver ain’t going to be a millionaire but you can have a decent life in Canada.
I had a decent life in the uk but this is just a different way but still good.

kr79:
Tell the truth I’m earning about the same here as I did in the uk but for more hours. But you can’t compare £ for $ its about living costs where you live. From what I see housing cars and fuel is cheaper than back in England everything else about the same but you can save a few quid shopping in the states.
Face facts a lorry driver ain’t going to be a millionaire but you can have a decent life in Canada.
I had a decent life in the uk but this is just a different way but still good.

I came to Canada purely for the adventure as I’d hit a bit of a dead end with my European aspirations and was doing the same runs to Switzerland just about every week with the odd run to Germany, again to the same places. I wasn’t unhappy with life in England, I just wanted to see and do more so gave Canada a shot. I was single so could just return to England at the drop of the hat if it didn’t work out, so nothing to lose.
When I sit back and compare the two jobs and the quality of life that each afford, I think that overall I had a better life in England. The job is more predictable, your pay is certainly more predictable and by and large you know when you’re going to be home and for how long. Money is very similar but you do a lot less work to get that money in the UK/Europe. Last year I did just under 3 months driving back in the UK as I was sick of the Canadian winter and my employer at the time goes quiet in January and February so suggested to me that if I’d like to I could go home for a few months and they’d hold my job open. I hate winter driving in Canada so jumped at the opertunity and went straight to work for a company in Immingham doing euroliners on ferry work and couldn’t believe how easy the job was compared to what you need to achieve in Canada to make a good wage. I remember before I came to Canada pre 2009, I’d moan about my job in the UK, how hard we worked and all that. I’ll never say that again now, the job in the UK as an absolute doddle, the only thing it is is somewhat mundane and boring and getting worse due to jobsworths, regulations and red tape. For this reason alone I prefere driving in Canada. Yes, I work far more hours and I’m away much longer periods of time for the same money, if not less, but I enjoy it and I think thats crucial when you drive a truck as you’re away in the job for such periods of time, even in the UK in most cases. Now I see North America going down the same path as Europe with rules and regulations and while I dont think the elog will be as bad as the digital tacho, I do honestly believe it will be in the near future. We all have first hand experience from living in the UK and we know that once something like this is forced through, it’ll lead to a ■■■■■■■■■■■ effect of more and more stringent regulations. If my fears do materialise to be correct then I can say without a shadow of a doubt that I’d prefere driving a truck in the UK and the life that would allow me to lead than driving a truck in Canada/USA. The other alternative I’m looking at is moving to Ontario, probably just outside of Toronto and getting a day job on hourly pay where log books arent a problem and the pay is high enough to maintain a comfortable standard of living. I’ve got no interest in stuggling on long haul in a constant battle with a piece of electronic software thats replacing me as the captain of the ship and having me have to park up after 8 hours a day in many cases or play gypsy campsite in totally unacceptable locations risking my life by the side of the road or in a dangerous industrial area in the name of “safety”, also I consider ■■■■■■■■ in bushes to be a part of UK truck life, but I’m not at all eager about it being regulated in to North American trucking life. The job isn’t worth two tosses like that, I might as well go back home and chose the lesser of the two evils and be on garunteed money and time off and be near all my friends and family. Unless of course the Ontario idea comes about.

FFS , why moan and groan about the job ? If it’s that bad then change employers , not like we’re short of opportunities here is it !!
If you fancy a change let me know , we usually have openings for decent drivers , so long as you can take the ■■■■■■■■ that goes with the job , you have PR ? Send me a pm if interested .

flat to the mat:
FFS , why moan and groan about the job ? If it’s that bad then change employers , not like we’re short of opportunities here is it !!
If you fancy a change let me know , we usually have openings for decent drivers , so long as you can take the [zb] that goes with the job , you have PR ? Send me a pm if interested .

Is that aimed at me? I’m not at all unhappy with my job, I really enjoy it and its exactly the sort of job I wanted and hoped for when I came to Canada in 09, it took me a job I hated in order to gain PR and another two other jobs I tried out but they lacked variety and money to finally land this one. My moaning is purely because I dont want it to change and become a regulated nightmare like the UK/EU. If things were to stay as they are now, I’d be more than happy.

Yes it was aimed at you :unamused: When you mention in a previous post that life was better in England it says all is not well in your world , plus a possible move to the center of the universe . Only opening some doors for you , no offense meant :exclamation:

I think Robin was merely pointing out the truth. Life and work conditions back in the Uk are indeed far better than this side of the Atlantic ocean. If I wasn’t married to a US citizen and have US kids I’d be back there at the drop of a hat. Just like me Robin thinks it’s best that all those who think moving across the pond to this continent is living the dream should know the truth before commiting themselves… And I say that even though I have a much better job than most over here.

Beg to differ Pat , but I’m done banging the drum for now . Merry Xmas to all , have a good one and enjoy .