PAUL GEE's PHOTO COLLECTION (Part 1)

[acab]

gazsa401:

acab:

Carryfast:

DEANB:
Just slightly off the subject acab can you remember a bloke named Hunter Miller?
I think he was at the Blairgowrie depot

Yes, I vaguely remember Hunter. He worked at Hawick depot as a Traffic manager then moved south and ran the Doncaster depot. The last time I spoke to him would be around 1991 when I was working at Scottish Road Services.

As for the F88 issues it was the TD100 engine that had the cylinder head problem. Volvo covered the engine up to 100k miles in the warranty but the failure would occur at just over 100k miles. The CS fleet engineer at the time was a gent called Jim Meek who had previously worked for a considerable number of years with Allisons Freightlines in Dundee. He canvassed other operators on whether this issue was down to how CS operated and maintained the vehicles or whether it was a design issue. Russell of Grangemouth had the exact same issue so he then started ringing the other large Volvo users and found the same pattern. Jim Mckelvie accepted that it was a problem but couldn’t persuade Gothenburg to contribute some goodwill which was a mistake as CS had become a very large and highly visible Volvo operator at that point. They started to suffer similar issues with the engines in their F86s as well.

As to the vehicles not being the high horsepower units you were hoping for Carryfast, CS ran a very advanced for it’s day fleet control system through their Edinburgh head office that monitored the full operating costs of every vehicle on fleet and measured them against their revenue earnings. The Commercial Motor article posted earlier mentions this. The Transport division accountant was a lovely man called Jack Jones and he worked very closely with Jim Meek to identify the most suitable vehicles for the operation to maximise profit. None of the drivers complained in those days as the vehicles were better than ones they had driven previously/elsewhere and the pay and conditions CS offered at that point were very generous.

If it’s any consolation to those who suffered lengthy delays at CS cold stores I can assure you that CS Transport suffered the same problems and were given worse treatment. It was a running sore for my dad with his counterpart who ran the cold storage division and would not provide any assistance whatsoever. They wouldn’t even promote or recommend the use of CS Transport to their storage clients. Things got pretty heated when the Marks and Spencer contract began as the warehouses used old fashioned open loading banks and frozen product was being left outdoors too long in warm weather causing temperature issue upon arrival at M&S stores leading to rejections. CS Transport were blamed when it was an issue outwith their control.

[oiltreader]

500 well done Dean diligent in presentation with great support from Paul and Mark.
Oily

[ray_smyth]

Thanks to Dean, Mark, and Paul for reaching 500 pages. Cheers, Ray Smyth.

[carryfast]

acab:
As for the F88 issues it was the TD100 engine that had the cylinder head problem. Volvo covered the engine up to 100k miles in the warranty but the failure would occur at just over 100k miles. The CS fleet engineer at the time was a gent called Jim Meek who had previously worked for a considerable number of years with Allisons Freightlines in Dundee. He canvassed other operators on whether this issue was down to how CS operated and maintained the vehicles or whether it was a design issue. Russell of Grangemouth had the exact same issue so he then started ringing the other large Volvo users and found the same pattern. Jim Mckelvie accepted that it was a problem but couldn’t persuade Gothenburg to contribute some goodwill which was a mistake as CS had become a very large and highly visible Volvo operator at that point. They started to suffer similar issues with the engines in their F86s as well.

As to the vehicles not being the high horsepower units you were hoping for Carryfast, CS ran a very advanced for it’s day fleet control system through their Edinburgh head office that monitored the full operating costs of every vehicle on fleet and measured them against their revenue earnings. The Commercial Motor article posted earlier mentions this. The Transport division accountant was a lovely man called Jack Jones and he worked very closely with Jim Meek to identify the most suitable vehicles for the operation to maximise profit. None of the drivers complained in those days as the vehicles were better than ones they had driven previously/elsewhere and the pay and conditions CS offered at that point were very generous.

I always had a gut feeling that they would be a good bet to work for before I’d even started my driving career.
But it took a while in my young naivety for me to understand that such jobs weren’t just a phone call away and that the industry was just a career choice of limitless opportunities.
That was as far as that dream, among other hopeful enquiries to similar firms, such as BOC Euroshield’s operations, ever got.
While the same naivety applied to vehicle expectations in that I thought that a top spec wagon automatically went with the territory, especially with that type of name.
That erroneous notion has obviously stuck to a point.I am quite surprised to be corrected by references to the types which they were obviously using regardless of how it was justified it in the day.

Notwithstanding Dean’s seeming annoyance the references to F86 and TD100 unreliability seem to add weight to my view of them predictably not being up to the job v TD120 for example.
I’ve always automatically associated F89 and later F12 for example as the default choice for Continental work at least, by the mid/late 1970’s.No one should have been buying such smaller engine options with the expectation of durability at max weights.
I guess that the truth is, like uk work, the actual choices made by operators weren’t as simple as that.
To the point where an F12 might have been chosen by some operators for UK work while an F86 or poverty spec Merc might have been chosen by others for Continental work.It seems obvious that the TD120 was the best option for maximum durability.I wonder if the resulting predictable issues which that would create outside of warranty were factored into the figures.Or not predicted at all when they should have been.

[kempston]

One of my favourite threads, well done to all concerned!

[finbarot]

Hi Dean,
nice shots of the Drinkwater Volvo F7s.I love a Foden, but what a difference between the F7 and an S39 or a leyland Reiver that they replaced.They seemed worlds apart.Even getting in and out was so much easier and when a tipper driver may get in and out over 40 times a day it can make a big difference regarding fatigue .I thought the GLC Bulker article was great but then I would wouldn’t I !!
I really enjoy Windrush’s recollections of Foden repairs especially his Gardner rebuilds.What a nightmare job with that fixed cab.My knees and back starting aching in sympathy just looking at the Kendrick mechanic stripping the Gardner!! I could smell the oil dripping on that old metal lead lamp bulb too.

[finbarot]

youtu.be/3WQrLuaMBMw

Congrats to Paul and Dean on the 500.
Brilliant.
Best I could do under the circumstances

[finbarot]

and Mark too obviously
Apologies

[smallcoal]

Dean,mark and Paul .500 pages ,brilliant achievement and loads of cracking pics let’s get this up over the 1000 mark ,glad you brought this thread up found lots of good pics of good times past ,cheers john

[acab]

Carryfast:
I always had a gut feeling that they would be a good bet to work for before I’d even started my driving career.
But it took a while in my young naivety for me to understand that such jobs weren’t just a phone call away and that the industry was just a career choice of limitless opportunities.
That was as far as that dream, among other hopeful enquiries to similar firms, such as BOC Euroshield’s operations, ever got.
While the same naivety applied to vehicle expectations in that I thought that a top spec wagon automatically went with the territory, especially with that type of name.
That erroneous notion has obviously stuck to a point.I am quite surprised to be corrected by references to the types which they were obviously using regardless of how it was justified it in the day.

Notwithstanding Dean’s seeming annoyance the references to F86 and TD100 unreliability seem to add weight to my view of them predictably not being up to the job v TD120 for example.
I’ve always automatically associated F89 and later F12 for example as the default choice for Continental work at least, by the mid/late 1970’s.No one should have been buying such smaller engine options with the expectation of durability at max weights.
I guess that the truth is, like uk work, the actual choices made by operators weren’t as simple as that.
To the point where an F12 might have been chosen by some operators for UK work while an F86 or poverty spec Merc might have been chosen by others for Continental work.It seems obvious that the TD120 was the best option for maximum durability.I wonder if the resulting predictable issues which that would create outside of warranty were factored into the figures.Or not predicted at all when they should have been.

The accepted wisdom of the day in the UK back then with regard to the HP/tonne equation was different to most operators in European markets who were used to working at higher GVW. Some fleet engineers remained wedded to those principals and carried on with them for many years. I subscibed more to the European view and tended to over specify slightly in order to understress an engine and this generally helped achieve lower running costs through improved MPG as the vehicles spent more time in the green band rather than being thrashed to make progress.

Another influencing factor for CS back in those early days was driver acceptance/animosity when running different types of vehicles. The F88 was bought and used in much smaller numbers for their European work whilst the F86 was bought as the UK workhorse on the general fleet. That caused jealousy issues amongst depots and drivers.

A couple of other little anecdotes on the make up of the CS fleet back in the 70’s as I’ve seen people saying they don’t recall them being anything other than a large operator of Mercedes trucks. The move into distribution for M&S around 1974 necessitated lower weight 24T artics with single axle trailers and tail lifts for store deliveries along with 16T rigids. The F86 was used in the early stages for the artic work and was more than up to job but M&S insisted suppliers buy British so CS had to look for UK built vehicles. They bought a mixture of Leylands (Clydesdales and some Lynx units) along with Ford D series. To illustrate the shambles the UK industry was in at that point in the mid 70’s, my dad and Jim Meek were invited by Leyland’s sales director to a tour of the Bathgate assembly line. When they arrived and started walking around the assembly line they noticed line workers watching them then huddling into groups for discussions. The production suddenly stopped and they were quickly ushered back into the main office block by the Sales Director. It turned out that the shop steward believed they were time and motion experts brought in by BL and had a called an impromptu strike in protest. That experience, coupled to continued unreliability and severe parts shortages caused by continual strikes, was the beginning of a swift departure from operating Leylands. At the next round of negotations with M&S for the expansion of the distribution contract two proposals were submitted. One included 10 Clysdesdales and the other was based upon 8 Mercedes 1617s. M&S asked why the quote was so much higher for the Leyland trucks and it was explained that due to the experience gained from running the existing Leyland fleet, the operational unreliability and uncertainty of spare parts supply had shown two vehicles would be continuously out of service so built in over capacity would be required to maintain guaranteed service levels to the M&S stores. Operational experience of the Mercedes in the CS general fleet coupled to an impress parts stock from MB meant they were confident there would be no unplanned downtime going with the German trucks so no spare capacity would be required. That was the moment M&S gave the green light to break their buy British policy.

[deanb]

windrush:
“DEANB”

I know your not a fan Pete,you have old me lots of times chap.

Nothing personal regarding Volvo Dean, I thought exactly the same about ANY foreign imported truck from that era as apart from perhaps the driver comfort aspect I couldn’t see that they were any better built than our own ERF/Foden/Atkinson etc products from the late 70’s/early 80’s with ■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■ engines and Fuller/Eaton or Rockwell drivelines. I doubt that many operators bought a vehicle thinking of cab comfort for their drivers so presumably they were cheaper to buy? I don’t know if like ERF/Foden etc the operator could chose the spec of Volvo’s etc and they built one to his own requirements or did they just have to make do with ‘one size fits all’ when buying one? Obviously they were well liked though.

As you probably realise I try to support British products and it grieves me having to run a French built van but there is nothing built here suitable for my needs alas.

Pete.

You would have no doubt been pleasently surprised Pete if you had ever driven a foreign motor Pete !

Buzzer:
Just like to congratulate you Dean & Paul and many other contributors to this wonderful thread on reaching the 500 page marker and in a relevant fast time to boot, long may it last Buzzer.

Cheers “Buzzer”

ERF-NGC-European:
500 excellent pages. Well done all round!

Ro

Cheers Ro.

stargazer148:
Well done Paul& Dean hitting 500 pages.looking forward to the next 500 best wishes Ray

Thank you Ray.

oiltreader:
500 well done Dean diligent in presentation with great support from Paul and Mark.
Oily

Thank you Eddie. Diligent,thats a big word chap !

Ray Smyth:
Thanks to Dean, Mark, and Paul for reaching 500 pages. Cheers, Ray Smyth.

Thanks alot Ray.

Kempston:
One of my favourite threads, well done to all concerned!

Cheers chap.

finbarot:
Hi Dean,
nice shots of the Drinkwater Volvo F7s.I love a Foden, but what a difference between the F7 and an S39 or a leyland Reiver that they replaced.They seemed worlds apart.Even getting in and out was so much easier and when a tipper driver may get in and out over 40 times a day it can make a big difference regarding fatigue .I thought the GLC Bulker article was great but then I would wouldn’t I !!
I really enjoy Windrush’s recollections of Foden repairs especially his Gardner rebuilds.What a nightmare job with that fixed cab.My knees and back starting aching in sympathy just looking at the Kendrick mechanic stripping the Gardner!! I could smell the oil dripping on that old metal lead lamp bulb too.

Thanks for your comments Tony. Nice bit of music on utube !

“windrush” Pete,^^^^^^ read em and weep chap !

smallcoal:
Dean,mark and Paul .500 pages ,brilliant achievement and loads of cracking pics let’s get this up over the 1000 mark ,glad you brought this thread up found lots of good pics of good times past ,cheers john

Thanks for your comments and great pics John.

acab:
Another influencing factor for CS back in those early days was driver acceptance/animosity when running different types of vehicles. The F88 was bought and used in much smaller numbers for their European work whilst the F86 was bought as the UK workhorse on the general fleet. That caused jealousy issues amongst depots and drivers.

A couple of other little anecdotes on the make up of the CS fleet back in the 70’s as I’ve seen people saying they don’t recall them being anything other than a large operator of Mercedes trucks. The move into distribution for M&S around 1974 necessitated lower weight 24T artics with single axle trailers and tail lifts for store deliveries along with 16T rigids. The F86 was used in the early stages for the artic work and was more than up to job but M&S insisted suppliers buy British so CS had to look for UK built vehicles. They bought a mixture of Leylands (Clydesdales and some Lynx units) along with Ford D series. To illustrate the shambles the UK industry was in at that point in the mid 70’s, my dad and Jim Meek were invited by Leyland’s sales director to a tour of the Bathgate assembly line. When they arrived and started walking around the assembly line they noticed line workers watching them then huddling into groups for discussions. The production suddenly stopped and they were quickly ushered back into the main office block by the Sales Director. It turned out that the shop steward believed they were time and motion experts brought in by BL and had a called an impromptu strike in protest. That experience, coupled to continued unreliability and severe parts shortages caused by continual strikes, was the beginning of a swift departure from operating Leylands. At the next round of negotations with M&S for the expansion of the distribution contract two proposals were submitted. One included 10 Clysdesdales and the other was based upon 8 Mercedes 1617s. M&S asked why the quote was so much higher for the Leyland trucks and it was explained that due to the experience gained from running the existing Leyland fleet, the operational unreliability and uncertainty of spare parts supply had shown two vehicles would be continuously out of service so built in over capacity would be required to maintain guaranteed service levels to the M&S stores. Operational experience of the Mercedes in the CS general fleet coupled to an impress parts stock from MB meant they were confident there would be no unplanned downtime going with the German trucks so no spare capacity would be required. That was the moment M&S gave the green light to break their buy British policy.

Thanks for your comments about Christian Salvesen,very intresting post chap.

Thanks to everyone who has posted over the last 500 pages and for all the pics and info,good stuff chaps.

[deanb]

Some fair ground motors.

[deanb]

“finbarot” Drinkwater Sabey Foden. Trucks from the 50’s,60’s used to have there spare wheels in that position on rigids,but it
was not normal when this truck was operated.

Hugh Friend Bedford TM. They operate from just outside of Blandford and the last time i saw one of there motor’s it
was a DAF 95.

GB Express MAN. They grew very quick as i remember and then went pear shaped !

BRS DAF.

Prismo DAF.

Not had a Blue Dart motor on for a while.

Thermas Block Foden.

Daz, Hadleys Routeman.Is that a Dodge or Bedford van behind the Maxi ■■

Durham Chemicals Volvo F6.

“smallcoal” John, one from your part of the world. Do you recognise who it is ■■

[windrush]

That’s a later model Commer Walk-Thru following Alan Hadley’s Scammell Dean.

Pete.

[deanb]

windrush:
That’s a later model Commer Walk-Thru following Alan Hadley’s Scammell Dean.

Pete.

Were they sometimes badged as a Dodge Pete or am i getting mixed up ■■

[suedehead]

Were all Austin Maxis brown or beige ?

[gazsa401]

Congratulations on reaching the 500 mark this is the first thread I look at (apologies to other threads)
Well done and thank you Dean for all your effort into posting the information and the pictures that Paul and Mark have taken over the years
The pictures have brought back some great memories for me and for my Dad who loves reminiscing about his lifelong time spent in road haulage
Cheers Gary [emoji106]

[deanb]

Some odds and sods.

Click on pages twice to read.

“windrush” Pete ,thought you might appreciate this.

Sharpe & Fisher 1975.

Greenwoods Transport St Ives Huntingdonshire 1963.

Tunnocks Bakery, Uddingston 1970.

I like the way the number of employees is crossed out on the back doors as the company increased it work force.

Atkinson.

[gazsa401]

DEANB:
Some odds and sods.

Click on pages twice to read.

“windrush” Pete ,thought you might appreciate this.

9

Sharpe & Fisher 1975.

8

7

6

Greenwoods Transport St Ives Huntingdonshire 1963.

4

5

Tunnocks Bakery, Uddingston 1970.

I like the way the number of employees is crossed out on the back doors as the company increased it work force.

3

2

Atkinson.

1

0

I used to load regularly out of Tunnocks has a backload after delivering cigarettes and tobacco products to Imperial Tobacco in East Kilbride
Cheers Gary

[finbarot]

Hi Dean
Im guessing that because Drinkwater drivers could almost be guaranteed a puncture or three every day a spare was essential.Ive used the ones that go horizontal on the chassis that held the wheel on the bracket with a couple of wheel nuts and was wound into position with a bolt attached to a wire bond.Maybe on the six wheel Haulmaster they couldn’t fit that type because of the exhaust /air tanks etc? I dont like the look of the one on that Foden.It has ‘hernia truss’ written all over it. Cant imagine it being allowed today.Imagine struggling with that on the hard shoulder of the M25 with motors taking the dust off your donkey jacket as they whizz by!!