I think I recall my dad used to work for a PIE subbie at Queeniborough near Leicester who ran an old Merc, and a 6 X 4 Atki on their overseas work and a couple of day cab ERF’s on tipping and loading in the UK. I cant remember the name of the company but they were Cream and Red motors. I would like it if someone can remember and post. it may have been something like Peter Wilkes or Dilkes■■? also didn’t PIE have a type of trailer with a funny coupling at the front and a train wheel between the twins so they could be pulled on rails in Canada??
the old timer:
I think I recall my dad used to work for a PIE subbie at Queeniborough near Leicester who ran an old Merc, and a 6 X 4 Atki on their overseas work and a couple of day cab ERF’s on tipping and loading in the UK. I cant remember the name of the company but they were Cream and Red motors. I would like it if someone can remember and post. it may have been something like Peter Wilkes or Dilkes■■? also didn’t PIE have a type of trailer with a funny coupling at the front and a train wheel between the twins so they could be pulled on rails in Canada??
There was a Wilkes Transport at Queniborough, and I know they had a 6x2 Atki in the late 60s. I have a photo somewhere…
robert1952:
0
Not seen a tilt sheet cover the full sides,top to bottom before,usually stops at the top of the side boards.
David
5thwheel:
robert1952:
0Not seen a tilt sheet cover the full sides,top to bottom before,usually stops at the top of the side boards.
David
They weren’t common. I had a drawbar trailer like that once. It wasn’t that practical because when the side boards got old and tired and bad-tempered they’d fall down and wedge themselves between the drop-sides and the canopy.
240 Gardner:
the old timer:
I think I recall my dad used to work for a PIE subbie at Queeniborough near Leicester who ran an old Merc, and a 6 X 4 Atki on their overseas work and a couple of day cab ERF’s on tipping and loading in the UK. I cant remember the name of the company but they were Cream and Red motors. I would like it if someone can remember and post. it may have been something like Peter Wilkes or Dilkes■■? also didn’t PIE have a type of trailer with a funny coupling at the front and a train wheel between the twins so they could be pulled on rails in Canada??There was a Wilkes Transport at Queniborough, and I know they had a 6x2 Atki in the late 60s. I have a photo somewhere…
many Thanks , would be great if you could post it .
Found this in our old workshop 
Danne
the old timer:
240 Gardner:
the old timer:
I think I recall my dad used to work for a PIE subbie at Queeniborough near Leicester who ran an old Merc, and a 6 X 4 Atki on their overseas work and a couple of day cab ERF’s on tipping and loading in the UK. I cant remember the name of the company but they were Cream and Red motors. I would like it if someone can remember and post. it may have been something like Peter Wilkes or Dilkes■■? also didn’t PIE have a type of trailer with a funny coupling at the front and a train wheel between the twins so they could be pulled on rails in Canada??There was a Wilkes Transport at Queniborough, and I know they had a 6x2 Atki in the late 60s. I have a photo somewhere…
many Thanks , would be great if you could post it .
And here it is!
VJU 477H Atkinson ‘Silver Knight Rear Steer’ Mk.2 TRS3266XB by Gardner 8LXB, on Flickr
Hi all.I remember Wilkes of Syston in the early 70s.They had a 1632 Merc[quite rare in the UK at that time]with Persian Princess on the headboard.The driver was a Sottish guy named Fred,also the had a MAN and a Renault one of which was driven by Roy Draycott.I Think they were based on an old airfield.They ran to Iran.
5th Wheel,i remember on Stolk we had some trailers where the tilt went to the bottom,this was because you could adjust the height of the trailer by 20cms so it was 4.20mtrs for volume loads.
I think we already have a PIE thread! 
ERF-NGC-European:
I think we already have a PIE thread!
Shouldn’t you have posted this message on the new thread? You could then lock the new one, with a link to this one in the last post. Not telling you yer job like. 
[zb]
anorak:ERF-NGC-European:
I think we already have a PIE thread!Shouldn’t you have posted this message on the new thread? You could then lock the new one, with a link to this one in the last post. Not telling you yer job like.
Well, as you had already given a link to this thread and the other one hasn’t really started property, I thought it easier to let it wither on the vine. If, however, it bifurcates and develops a mind of its own I may indeed have to merge them
A few clippings.
Click on twice.
I came across this thread totally by chance. I might be able to fill in a few gaps though it’s largely ancient history now!
It’s a bit lengthy but I hope it helps those interested.
I worked for Pacific Intermountain Express (office side) in the UK between 1974-79. Originally it was always called “PIE” but we had to use the full name more when a ■■■■■■■■■■ group also called “PIE” got some very big national press coverage in the mid 70s.
The company had a major operation in Europe, with offices in many countries. In the UK, their London office was near Tower Bridge and dealt with largely seafreight and containers. The HQ was in Southall and initially dealt largely with airfreight and central accounting/admin.
The TIR side was run mainly out of Leicester (where I worked) though more control of that started to move to Southall towards the end of the period above. The Leicester connection arose originally when the company secured the business of BSC in Leicester (British Shoe Corporation) importing vast quantities of shoes from Italy. We also had a customs clearance and documents office in Dover.
The Leicester operation was run out of a warehouse in Willow Street and was basically a Portakabin inside the warehouse with some desks and a telex machine. Most of the shoe traffic would tip at BSC but also sometimes in our warehouse. From memory, the trailers were owned or leased by us but all the tractor business was subbed out. In the early part of the period, much of our tractor work went up to Oadby but more and more hauliers were used through the 70s (including owner-drivers) as the business grew.
Although most of our TIR business went to and from Italy/France, we diversified into overland to the Middle East and to a lesser extent, North Africa. Jeddah and Riyadh in Saudi were the biggest destinations followed by Tehran then Baghdad. We were right at the forefront of that in those days and got a lot of press coverage.
They were epic journeys. I used to have a photo of a PIE rig submerged almost to the cab roof in a flash flood and I remember seeing one cab with several bullet holes in it. In those 1970s days, our trucks used to stop on the Turkish/Iraqi border and were escorted down in a military convoy through Kurdish parts of the country to Baghdad.
Originally, in the earlier 70s, we did some ‘Kangaroo’ trailer work using the rail system down to Novara. I wonder if that still operates? It meant reduced heights on trailer loadings due to the tunnel clearances.
Around 1977-78, the company decided to invest big time in the growing overland business to the Middle East and decided to purchase 50 of its own tractor units in a vast deal. It also purchased an existing haulier in Derby I think (sorry, I just can’t remember the name but it might have been “Rowan Transport” or similar) to form the basis of the new PIE fleet. Prior to that, we had never done our own haulage.
I was loosely involved as a young guy providing admin assistance to the purchasing reviews and the main contenders were DAF, Volvo and Leyland Marathon. I really now can’t remember the outcome but I seem to recall in the end we split it 50-50 between DAF and Volvo – but I may be mistaken. I suspect the order might also have been scaled back as the financial and social troubles of the late ‘70s began.
Around 1975-6, the company finally moved out of the Leicester Portakabin into better offices in Vaughan Way. The warehouse in Leicester was closed, though the building still stands.
As a result of the big tractor purchases, which were controlled out of Southall, slowly but surely the future of the Leicester office looked uncertain as Southall became the focal point and centre of gravity for haulage and TIR. That was clear at the time but what I didn’t realise was that the parent company in the US had started to have doubts about its European operations.
In part, the Iranian Revolution in ’79 was probably a big factor in that, as the Iran haulage side of our business stopped almost immediately. The growing economic chaos in the UK would also have been a major inhibitor to further investment I guess but that was all way above my pay grade at the time.
Initially Leicester office was closed and I was transferred to London in 78-9 (Tower Bridge) though oddly technically employed by PIE in Milan. After a few months, news came that the whole business in Europe was being closed and parts sold off. That was all in ’79. I was never party to the real business reasons behind that decision. I think it was all completed in 1980 or 81 but I’d left in 79 and things were being wound down.
For many, many years afterwards, I would sometimes see our trailers and tractors still in the livery, trundling around the roads. Who owned and operated them I can’t say.
As I said, I hope this has been an interesting and useful top-up to this tiny part of forwarding and haulage history.
Telexman:
I came across this thread totally by chance. I might be able to fill in a few gaps though it’s largely ancient history now!It’s a bit lengthy but I hope it helps those interested.
I worked for Pacific Intermountain Express (office side) in the UK between 1974-79. Originally it was always called “PIE” but we had to use the full name more when a ■■■■■■■■■■ group also called “PIE” got some very big national press coverage in the mid 70s.
The company had a major operation in Europe, with offices in many countries. In the UK, their London office was near Tower Bridge and dealt with largely seafreight and containers. The HQ was in Southall and initially dealt largely with airfreight and central accounting/admin.
The TIR side was run mainly out of Leicester (where I worked) though more control of that started to move to Southall towards the end of the period above. The Leicester connection arose originally when the company secured the business of BSC in Leicester (British Shoe Corporation) importing vast quantities of shoes from Italy. We also had a customs clearance and documents office in Dover.
The Leicester operation was run out of a warehouse in Willow Street and was basically a Portakabin inside the warehouse with some desks and a telex machine. Most of the shoe traffic would tip at BSC but also sometimes in our warehouse. From memory, the trailers were owned or leased by us but all the tractor business was subbed out. In the early part of the period, much of our tractor work went up to Oadby but more and more hauliers were used through the 70s (including owner-drivers) as the business grew.
Although most of our TIR business went to and from Italy/France, we diversified into overland to the Middle East and to a lesser extent, North Africa. Jeddah and Riyadh in Saudi were the biggest destinations followed by Tehran then Baghdad. We were right at the forefront of that in those days and got a lot of press coverage.
They were epic journeys. I used to have a photo of a PIE rig submerged almost to the cab roof in a flash flood and I remember seeing one cab with several bullet holes in it. In those 1970s days, our trucks used to stop on the Turkish/Iraqi border and were escorted down in a military convoy through Kurdish parts of the country to Baghdad.
Originally, in the earlier 70s, we did some ‘Kangaroo’ trailer work using the rail system down to Novara. I wonder if that still operates? It meant reduced heights on trailer loadings due to the tunnel clearances.
Around 1977-78, the company decided to invest big time in the growing overland business to the Middle East and decided to purchase 50 of its own tractor units in a vast deal. It also purchased an existing haulier in Derby I think (sorry, I just can’t remember the name but it might have been “Rowan Transport” or similar) to form the basis of the new PIE fleet. Prior to that, we had never done our own haulage.
I was loosely involved as a young guy providing admin assistance to the purchasing reviews and the main contenders were DAF, Volvo and Leyland Marathon. I really now can’t remember the outcome but I seem to recall in the end we split it 50-50 between DAF and Volvo – but I may be mistaken. I suspect the order might also have been scaled back as the financial and social troubles of the late ‘70s began.
Around 1975-6, the company finally moved out of the Leicester Portakabin into better offices in Vaughan Way. The warehouse in Leicester was closed, though the building still stands.
As a result of the big tractor purchases, which were controlled out of Southall, slowly but surely the future of the Leicester office looked uncertain as Southall became the focal point and centre of gravity for haulage and TIR. That was clear at the time but what I didn’t realise was that the parent company in the US had started to have doubts about its European operations.
In part, the Iranian Revolution in ’79 was probably a big factor in that, as the Iran haulage side of our business stopped almost immediately. The growing economic chaos in the UK would also have been a major inhibitor to further investment I guess but that was all way above my pay grade at the time.
Initially Leicester office was closed and I was transferred to London in 78-9 (Tower Bridge) though oddly technically employed by PIE in Milan. After a few months, news came that the whole business in Europe was being closed and parts sold off. That was all in ’79. I was never party to the real business reasons behind that decision. I think it was all completed in 1980 or 81 but I’d left in 79 and things were being wound down.
For many, many years afterwards, I would sometimes see our trailers and tractors still in the livery, trundling around the roads. Who owned and operated them I can’t say.
As I said, I hope this has been an interesting and useful top-up to this tiny part of forwarding and haulage history.
Welcome aboard, Telexman! And thank you for those fascinating insights into PIE operations. 
Without this kind of input, this kind of info quietly evaporates with the passing of time and transportmen. Do feel free to add more if you think of anything. Or add pics if you have any.
Cheers!
Telexman:
I came across this thread totally by chance. I might be able to fill in a few gaps though it’s largely ancient history now!It’s a bit lengthy but I hope it helps those interested.
I worked for Pacific Intermountain Express (office side) in the UK between 1974-79. Originally it was always called “PIE” but we had to use the full name more when a ■■■■■■■■■■ group also called “PIE” got some very big national press coverage in the mid 70s.
The company had a major operation in Europe, with offices in many countries. In the UK, their London office was near Tower Bridge and dealt with largely seafreight and containers. The HQ was in Southall and initially dealt largely with airfreight and central accounting/admin.
The TIR side was run mainly out of Leicester (where I worked) though more control of that started to move to Southall towards the end of the period above. The Leicester connection arose originally when the company secured the business of BSC in Leicester (British Shoe Corporation) importing vast quantities of shoes from Italy. We also had a customs clearance and documents office in Dover.
The Leicester operation was run out of a warehouse in Willow Street and was basically a Portakabin inside the warehouse with some desks and a telex machine. Most of the shoe traffic would tip at BSC but also sometimes in our warehouse. From memory, the trailers were owned or leased by us but all the tractor business was subbed out. In the early part of the period, much of our tractor work went up to Oadby but more and more hauliers were used through the 70s (including owner-drivers) as the business grew.
Although most of our TIR business went to and from Italy/France, we diversified into overland to the Middle East and to a lesser extent, North Africa. Jeddah and Riyadh in Saudi were the biggest destinations followed by Tehran then Baghdad. We were right at the forefront of that in those days and got a lot of press coverage.
They were epic journeys. I used to have a photo of a PIE rig submerged almost to the cab roof in a flash flood and I remember seeing one cab with several bullet holes in it. In those 1970s days, our trucks used to stop on the Turkish/Iraqi border and were escorted down in a military convoy through Kurdish parts of the country to Baghdad.
Originally, in the earlier 70s, we did some ‘Kangaroo’ trailer work using the rail system down to Novara. I wonder if that still operates? It meant reduced heights on trailer loadings due to the tunnel clearances.
Around 1977-78, the company decided to invest big time in the growing overland business to the Middle East and decided to purchase 50 of its own tractor units in a vast deal. It also purchased an existing haulier in Derby I think (sorry, I just can’t remember the name but it might have been “Rowan Transport” or similar) to form the basis of the new PIE fleet. Prior to that, we had never done our own haulage.
I was loosely involved as a young guy providing admin assistance to the purchasing reviews and the main contenders were DAF, Volvo and Leyland Marathon. I really now can’t remember the outcome but I seem to recall in the end we split it 50-50 between DAF and Volvo – but I may be mistaken. I suspect the order might also have been scaled back as the financial and social troubles of the late ‘70s began.
Around 1975-6, the company finally moved out of the Leicester Portakabin into better offices in Vaughan Way. The warehouse in Leicester was closed, though the building still stands.
As a result of the big tractor purchases, which were controlled out of Southall, slowly but surely the future of the Leicester office looked uncertain as Southall became the focal point and centre of gravity for haulage and TIR. That was clear at the time but what I didn’t realise was that the parent company in the US had started to have doubts about its European operations.
In part, the Iranian Revolution in ’79 was probably a big factor in that, as the Iran haulage side of our business stopped almost immediately. The growing economic chaos in the UK would also have been a major inhibitor to further investment I guess but that was all way above my pay grade at the time.
Initially Leicester office was closed and I was transferred to London in 78-9 (Tower Bridge) though oddly technically employed by PIE in Milan. After a few months, news came that the whole business in Europe was being closed and parts sold off. That was all in ’79. I was never party to the real business reasons behind that decision. I think it was all completed in 1980 or 81 but I’d left in 79 and things were being wound down.
For many, many years afterwards, I would sometimes see our trailers and tractors still in the livery, trundling around the roads. Who owned and operated them I can’t say.
As I said, I hope this has been an interesting and useful top-up to this tiny part of forwarding and haulage history.
Thanks Telexman,a great history lesson which I’m sure will be very well received.
David
Thanks to all for the welcome.
I can add a few other miscellaneous points as my memory has fired up a bit overnight. Don’t know if they add much but here goes…
-
I said in my posting “Oadby” was our early tractor work but in fact, I meant “Wilkes Transport”
-
The company also made news when one of our drivers on the way home (in France I think) blew two of his fingers off when the gas cooker he was using in or near the cab exploded. He was lucky to escape more serious injury.
-
I vaguely recall we were in the news again when one of our drivers was quite badly injured when the ferry hit the harbour wall in Dover and he got thrown down the stairs and through some glass. Driving was never risk free I know but you’d think one was safe on the ferry as it entered Dover!
-
The original HQ was in Mitcham. It moved to Southall in I think 75.
-
We opened an office in Tehran. It was run by a couple of Swedish guys. Obviously it closed down fast after the revolution.
-
I vaguely recall we experimented with RO/RO services out of Greece or Southern Italy (can’t recall which - might have been both!) to Turkey en-route to the Middle East. That was to cut out the, in those days, problematic transits through parts of eastern Europe. We abandoned it due to cost.
-
Our global HQ was in Oakland CA. We had very little to do with them directly, as far as I know.
-
We did overland business to what was then Russia within the Soviet Union. We used to use trucks from SovTrans Auto in Moscow and the then Leningrad. A nightmare of paperwork and the business never really amounted to much even though again it made some news stories in the press. I just can’t remember but I think we shipped our trailers unaccompanied to Finland then SovTrans Auto picked them up. I do remember that could be the last we saw of them for many months.
-
A lot of our export TIR in the earlier 70s had its origin in the heavy and medium industry of the Midlands and North of England. We could never really secure vast amounts of business in Scotland due to the empty mileage to get up there making the quotes un-competitive. As the 70s progressed, the problems of British industry became ever more evident and we noticed that fewer and fewer of our export loads were about high-quality engineering and equipment leaving the country for elsewhere and more and more low-value stuff like rags and pelts going to places like Prato in Italy. Paradoxically, our back loads being imported started to become more about machinery and kit - showing the rest of the world had caught up and was passing us (the UK) by.
Summary - PIE was a highly innovative company that was way ahead of most of the pack in developing new markets and ideas.
It became pretty well known in the UK in the 70s. It could possibly have become one of the major forces in UK TIR but it seemed to lose its way and its self-confidence towards the end of the decade. I suspect a lot of money was lost in trying to become a major haulier in its own right (as opposed to being a freight forwarder with some trailers) and the perception in the trenches was that the rot set in with the purchase of the 50 tractors. In hindsight, I suspect it got confused over its strategy and saw money pouring out whilst at the same time, the UK seemed on a course to self-destruct economically. So, the US pulled the plug (best guess).
Again, hope this brain-dump was useful. Can’t believe I’m now the old codger dredging up those memories! How did that happen? Cheers.
Good stuff Telexman !
Heres another pic of that Atkinson.
Click on once.
Wow - this thread is really opening up some long-forgotten memories!
The guy in PIE Leicester who managed most of the TIR work in the very early 70s was a Welshman called Bert Jones. The office was run by a guy called Graham Wills - he eventually went to work for Anglo Overseas I think in 1978.
Part of the reason they took me on in '74 (I was a wee lad but I already had 2-3 years experience with Gondrand and Alltransport) was to try and free Bert’s time up to do more sales and account development work.
I do remember going up to Wilkes Transport with Bert to prepare some Carnet TIR/De Passage documents plus some old EEC transit documents called a “T3”. I think Wilkes were on an open site in a Portakabin or shed but this was a LONG time ago so I could be wrong.
I do remember at least two of their drivers, Fred and Mick. I remember having a beer and sandwich with Mick at the time - when I worked for Gondrand and he was tipping with us for PIE/Wilkes. I also do remember they had at least one Atki - I can remember it at the Leicester warehouse. I’m not sure when that was but I know we all thought it was/looked dated. I don’t know why I remember this but I recall the driver had big troubles getting it started after tipping.
Most of PIE Leicester’s local collections and deliveries into the warehouse were handled by Brearly’s transport - they had a fleet of smaller flatbeds and vans. Carriage up to 5-7 tons stuff. They were on a semi-derelict site near Willow Street - that site has I think long ago since been developed.
The guy PIE brought in to manage the development of their own tractor fleet was called Dennis Foster I think. He had originally owned Rowan Transport (I think) in Derby (I think). PIE bought him out for his knowledge and his haulage licences. One of his (PIE’s) drivers was his son, also called Dennis I think.
Heck, many of these guys must be long dead by now. Funny I’m sitting here talking about them! Cheers.
If you’re not sick of reading my ancient recollections, I’ll add one last bit based upon some stuff on PIE I’ve read in another thread and the recollections of some relating to a guy called John Thomas…I don’t quite remember things the way the other thread does but time can play tricks with memory. So, to confirm based on recollections.
John was brought in to manage the rapidly growing fleet in Southall - that would have been in the later 70s. I’m unsure of his relationship to Dennis Foster but I suspect John worked for PIE whereas Dennis remained independent and presumably was paid a healthy retainer.
Initially, there was the tediously predictable turf war between Leicester and Southall, which inevitably there was zero chance of Leicester winning even though it was the first TIR HQ. The slightly unholy compromise they reached initially was that John would manage the operational side of the fleet from Southall and Leicester would manage customer engagement and the commercial side.
Of course, it could never work. No way the small operation in Leicester could possibly cope and keep a fleet of that size operational and I remember a number of crisis meetings in Southall probably in 78 trying to sort roles out and during which, it became very clear that Leicester was doomed.
I do recall a lot of talk in the industry that the DAFs were over-spec’d. Many predicted PIE could not expand that fast and hope ME traffic would pay for it all. The doubters were right of course. Some of the people involved in the spec and subsequent purchase were from PIE in the US. I don’t recall their names but I do remember a lot of wise heads saying in the UK saying “never going to work - these guys from the US just don’t know what they’re doing”.
I really will shut up now. Best wishes to all.