I fill in the back with the hours I’ve worked and write down the shift earlies/lates in the notes box. I work a very regular shift pattern, so it’s easy for me to remember.
When completing charts/printouts for ‘none driving’ work days you only need to write the start/finish times, date and drivers name Page 39 - GV262
That’s VOSAs own booklet so I fail to see how any VOSA bod could argue with that.
What a ridiculous situation! So a handwritten diary is not acceptable, but getting a blank tacho chart an writing on the back of it ‘Being a sparky, started 0700, finished 1800’ is? Because of course, a diary can be fiddled, but a round piece of paper can’t…
I often wonder how different this country would be if it was being designed from scratch, rather than all these little things which just happen along the way!
Gary
tachograph:
When completing charts/printouts for ‘none driving’ work days you only need to write the start/finish times, date and drivers name Page 39 - GV262That’s VOSAs own booklet so I fail to see how any VOSA bod could argue with that.
And the VOSA bods at an operator’s seminar we went to also said you could use one single chart for Mon-Wed (say) if that was covering straightforward regular-hours non-driving work.
As others have said though, it is ridiculous, as none of the three allowed options (digi manual, digi printout, blank chart) is anything like a reasonble solution, which would be a simple standard form you could download and use. Strangely enough, that would be a bit like a domestic hours logbook…
wilbur:
As others have said though, it is ridiculous, as none of the three allowed options (digi manual, digi printout, blank chart) is anything like a reasonble solution, which would be a simple standard form you could download and use. Strangely enough, that would be a bit like a domestic hours logbook…
I couldn’t agree more, I can’t see any reason why VOSA should not accept a printed form instead of a chart/printout.
Perhaps we should get as many people as possible to email the suggestion to VOSA at Enquiries@vosa.gov.uk and see how they respond to the idea 
under Eu rule the record must be either-
written manualy on a chart
wrutten manually on a printout from a digital taxo.
made by using the manual input facility of dig.tachograf or
for day where a driver has been subject to domestic drivers hours rules and a record is legally requared,recorded log book.full info in page 39
Andrejs:
under Eu rule the record must be either-
written manualy on a chart
wrutten manually on a printout from a digital taxo.
made by using the manual input facility of dig.tachograf or
for day where a driver has been subject to domestic drivers hours rules and a record is legally requared,recorded log book.full info in page 39
You’re right, I thought using charts ec’t was a VOSA requirement but after checking I see it’s specified in article 6 of (EC) 561/2006.
When I worked full-time and drove occasional weekends I didn’t keep a separate record. The chances of being stopped by VOSA at weekends was pretty remote and in six years I never encountered one.
The last time I had my driving record checked was shortly after we changed from writing on log sheets to drawing lines on them.
Can’t help but think people are worrying to much.
If you get pulled, just hand them your digi card and/or charts you have on you and say no more. Any questions about why you don’t work much just say because its your lifestyle choice… your well off and just pick and choose the odd bit of work as you please - or whatever. It’s up to them to prove otherwise and they won’t bother unless your driving records stink of being fiddled.
As a previous poster has said I think presenting the inspector with loads of hand written records of non driving work is just potentially going to dig a hole for yourself.
fredthered:
What other profession has to account for their time when not working■■? IMO the onus is on them to prove I wasn’t on holiday/day off/at the clap clinic or whatever. If they want complete records they should make the digi tacho the only device that’s acceptable recording equipment and enforce retro fitting where necessary and also modify them to allow manual ‘block time’ entries. Then they can have all the info they desire.Seems to me that any jobs worth VOSA geezer can make his or her own rules up as they go along. BB needs to get her finger out of her arse and sort it properly.
Orson Wells wasn’t far wrong was he■■?!!!
I agree with this!
Although I accept it may create a problem at the side of the road, effectively, if you tell Mr VOSA, “I had the day off yesterday…” and he asks for proof, he’s effectively saying; “I don’t believe you drive…” (or in blunt terms, “I think you’re lying!”) Well that’s not my problem. If they choose to stop me from driving a vehicle (restricting my ability to earn money) because they “think or suspect” I was driving on my day off, I would take them to court for restricting my right to carry out a legitimate business.
Which is against European law, if not against UK law! I’d like to think my employer would take them to court as well. A few large compensation payouts would soon stop all that nonsense! (Although I imagine HM Government would change the law pretty sharpish!)
It is not for me to prove what I tell them. It is for them to prove I am lying. But then I should add, I simply wouldn’t lie when asked that question.
Despite what many “civil servants” seem to think, we have not YET become a police state. Well on our way there though!
rob22888:
Can’t help but think people are worrying to much.If you get pulled, just hand them your digi card and/or charts you have on you and say no more. Any questions about why you don’t work much just say because its your lifestyle choice… your well off and just pick and choose the odd bit of work as you please - or whatever. It’s up to them to prove otherwise and they won’t bother unless your driving records stink of being fiddled.
As a previous poster has said I think presenting the inspector with loads of hand written records of non driving work is just potentially going to dig a hole for yourself.
+1
Unfortunately VOSA are taking this quite seriously. Handing over a digi card with only a couple of days driving showing over the past couple of weeks is likely to get you parked up for 45hrs. I spoke with the local Vehicle examiner on tuesday and specifically asked about this. He said he would accept a diary with times worked on other jobs. It seems it is in response to people working 3days on analogue and 4 on digi, or days on digi nights on analogue etc. I’m currently working weekends so this affects me.
Now let me get this straight in my now confused and somewhat panicky head…
I work for the Highways Agency, I work 6 days on and 4 off, I work in a crew of 2 on motorway patrol meaning sometimes I drive sometimes I don’t (not trucks though). If I should get a drive on my days off do i need to keep with me details of all the times, hours etc that I worked/drove/didn’t drive for the last 4 weeks? 
or does this all only relate to the driving of LGV’s?
Tazbug
Tazbug:
Now let me get this straight in my now confused and somewhat panicky head…I work for the Highways Agency, I work 6 days on and 4 off, I work in a crew of 2 on motorway patrol meaning sometimes I drive sometimes I don’t (not trucks though). If I should get a drive on my days off do i need to keep with me details of all the times, hours etc that I worked/drove/didn’t drive for the last 4 weeks?
You need to read the EU Drivers’ Hours regulations - VOSA provide a helpful downloadable guide here.
Open the ‘goods vehicles’ guide and read pages 20, 22 and 23 (ignore the multi-manning section on page 21). Almost all commercial driving in the UK is on EU rules, and once you are on EU rules, you must meet the daily rest requirements for that day and the weekly rest requirements for that week (see page 17).
Your Highways Agency job is ‘other work’ for EU rules purposes.
Any time you drive on EU rules, you will need to carry records of your work and rest periods since your last weekly rest - these must (see page 39) be written manually on an analogue tachograph chart, written manually on a digital printout or entered via the manual entry facility of a digital tachograph (in this last case, you do not need a printout - the information is held on your driver card).
Assuming you’re driving a digital vehicle, either make manual entries or make a 24 hour printout (driver if the tacho will let you, otherwise vehicle) and write the other work (i.e. your shifts) and rest information from your diary or other records since your last weekly rest period on the back of the printout. If you go for the printout approach, this is part of your tacho records, which you must carry for 28 days before handing in to the relevant employer. If you can bear to enter the information via manual entries, it saves faffing about getting the bit of paper to the relevant person - they will simply download the data from your card.
It may well be a good idea to start your manual entries or written records with the weekly rest period to make it explicit that you took enough rest.
You must make the manual or written entries before you start to drive.
There is no need to split your job into driving and non-driving time unless you are driving an LGV or PCV at work (and if you are, you may well be on EU rules at work so should be making tachograph records) - simply record all the work time as ‘other work’.
You can only use a log book if you were driving a goods vehicle or passenger vehicle on domestic hours (see page 39). If you were not driving on domestic hours, your only options are to write on the back of an analogue chart, write on the back of a digital printout or manual entries on a digital tachograph.
Tazbug:
Now let me get this straight in my now confused and somewhat panicky head…I work for the Highways Agency, I work 6 days on and 4 off, I work in a crew of 2 on motorway patrol meaning sometimes I drive sometimes I don’t (not trucks though). If I should get a drive on my days off do i need to keep with me details of all the times, hours etc that I worked/drove/didn’t drive for the last 4 weeks?
Tazbug
take a week as starting Mon ,
if you dont drive an hgv all week then no need to put anything down for other work as you havent been under the rules for hgv driving
but
if say your days off are in middle of week and you will have to make a note of any other work that week
ie start mon first day of week
you have maybe started 0800 finished 1600 for highways ,
then 4 days off , but one of those days you drive a truck for the day so that day is under hgv rules for driving ,because you have done hgv driving one day that week you need to log down your other work for that week
so mon start 0800-1600 for highways
tues rest
wed on tacho 0800-1600
thurs rest
fri rest
sat 0800-1600 for highways
sun 0800-1600 for highways
you dont have to itemise on driving for highways just your start and finish times classed as other work
the time spent on hgv rules will be on your tacho so all recorded for vosa bod to download
hope that helps and is clear enough
jx
Wildy:
…I spoke with the local Vehicle examiner on tuesday and specifically asked about this. He said he would accept a diary with times worked on other jobs. It seems it is in response to people working 3days on analogue and 4 on digi, or days on digi nights on analogue etc. I’m currently working weekends so this affects me.
Well I understand their concern, but to penalise ALL drivers because some are taking advantage of the system, is unacceptable.
And how does that equate if the two days you didn’t drive last week, were simply days off? Or maybe I travelled to Blackpool (in my car) and entered a ballroom dancing contest? Or visited my sick aunt? Or attended a flower arranging course? So, not work as such. Why should I account for what I do in my own free time, to a civil servant working for a government quango, who has no proof that I HAVE been driving — merely the suspicion — based on what evidence?
They may stop me from driving for 45hrs, or for whatever length of time they deem necessary, but I would/will be taking full details of the officers involved, as well as times, and what was said. In fact, I’d be recording the discussion on my camera phone and asking for the evidence that indicates I had been driving, if I have told them I was not!
Let’s see how that stands up in a court of law. I would also be arguing that by restricting me from travelling or returning to my base, from a most probably distant location, at a most probably unsocial time, they are possibly guilty of unlawful detention.
Oh, and so far, all I’ve heard on this particular thread is hearsay. Blokes who’ve heard from a bloke who works for VOSA. If anyone has any link to, or evidence of a specific law or condition that VOSA refer to with regard to the recording, and disclosure of driving/working hours — other than the currently accepted times for driving, I’d love to see it.
And yes, I do think this would constitute an illegal hindrance and restriction of my right to carry out my legitimate business.
Just for clarification:
The Rules on Driver’s Hours and Tachographs —Â Goods Vehicles in GB and Europe from this link: http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/publications/manualsandguides/drivershoursandtachographguides.htm
Is actually quite clear. On page 39 it differentiates between a driver undertaking other “non-driving” work, and rest and other days off.
Rest and other days off
The period of time unaccounted for between successive charts produced by a driver should normally be regarded as (unless there is evidence to the contrary) a rest period when drivers are able to dispose freely of their time. In the UK, drivers are not expected to account for this period, unless enforcement authorities have reason to believe that they were working.
Which is why, before removing my digi card when leaving a vehicle, I always set it to show I’ve started a rest period!
Wildy:
Unfortunately VOSA are taking this quite seriously. Handing over a digi card with only a couple of days driving showing over the past couple of weeks is likely to get you parked up for 45hrs. I spoke with the local Vehicle examiner on tuesday and specifically asked about this. He said he would accept a diary with times worked on other jobs. It seems it is in response to people working 3days on analogue and 4 on digi, or days on digi nights on analogue etc. I’m currently working weekends so this affects me.
What about those that have retired and are working a couple of days a week to supplement their pension. If that is the only work they are doing then the onus is upon VOSA to prove that they have other employment. If they only work for one employer, that is 100% digi, and they have consecutively numbered printouts then there is no case to answer.
It is their employer, HM Government, that is insisting people work till they drop dead.
waddy640:
What about those that have retired and are working a couple of days a week to supplement their pension. If that is the only work they are doing then the onus is upon VOSA to prove that they have other employment. If they only work for one employer, that is 100% digi, and they have consecutively numbered printouts then there is no case to answer.
No need to print out - it’s on your digi card. See my post above yours for clarification of rest and other days off!
Of course, if you’re undertaking “non-driving” work, as well as your couple of days driving to supplement your pension, then “technically” you need to account for it… although unless VOSA had evidence you were doing said, “non-driving” work, I can’t really see how that can be enforced, as long as your digi card was set to rest before removing it from the last vehicle you drove.
As previously noted, they can certainly give you a prohibition if they have evidence you have been driving unrecorded, or doing other “non-driving” work. Anything other than tangible evidence, as opposed to a VOSA official’s subjective opinion, should be challenged in court.
I agree with what your saying EastAnglianTrucker. However I think you’ll find like you say that you’ll be arguing it out after the event.