Hi, I remember doing the fish and fruit trunks out of Tufnell Park London to Bishop Auckland and Stockton on Tees in 1954/55 using the 4 wheel Seddons #, for which we had to carry a pocket full of olives for the injector pipes.
Lawrence Dunbar:
Hi Pete & Paulycats, IIRC, This was new to Taits Transport Haydon Bridge & possibley from A&G, Hexham â â ?, Regards Larry.
Afternoon Gents,
Iâve found another one whilst looking for the info on the first, Cheerâs Pete ps. See you at Jacks Hill on Sunday Larry
This Bedford 8 wheelers is photographed in front of EDBRO B & E Tippers factory at Bolton, Lancs.
Cheers Leyland 600.
duncan bladen:
looking for any pictures of barnfather [barnfather & wilkes ] from sherburn co durham , from beginning of 60s onwards , and wa glendinning from same era⌠reason im asking is that my father Joe Bladen drove for these two , as well as having his own concrete mixer for A R C for a while , Sadly he passed away from a cancer related illness suddenly in july , and i would appreciate any old photos .
many thanks in advance
Hi Duncan,
Sorry i canât supply any photoâs but i can confirm your dad Joe, drove for my dad, Jimmy Paul from Seaham. This would be around 1965/66 ish? Your dad was driving for Chester Brick Company at Plawsworth and running sand out of Sherburn Hill and became friends with my brother Ronnie. He definitely drove our Commer 2 stroke diesel 4 wheeler (VOY 222) Ronnie remembers your dad as a top bloke with one failing. âHe lived in Sherburn Village but was always last into Sherburn Hill quarry on a morningâ (1 mile up the road)
Had trouble getting his head off the pillow apparently 
Right, here goes.The start of a history lesson (sort of) and the journey of a small tipper haulier in the East Durham area between 1949/50 to 1976âishâ. (as remembered by his two sons) We will try and include as many hauliers as we can remember( and there are quite a few), that used our local quarries i.e. Warden Law,Sherburn Hill,Hawthorn and maybe some further afield? Also, the beaches of Seaham,West Hartlepool and Seaton Carew. Unfortunately i donât think we have any photoâs, and that my friends is a bummer!!
We are hoping this will trigger some memories and your input is greatly anticipated/appreciated.
I thought me dadâs first wagon was a J type Bedford (early fifties?). Nope!
About 1949 apparently. Dad had demobbed from the RAF as sergeant fitter, engines/airframes (1945) and found work as a foreman working for Nancy Chambers in Seaham. This lady owned the rights to remove sand from Seaham beach and owned 3 tippers (and the equipment needed to load the sand onto wagons) The location of the access to the beach is between the now, new East Shore village (then Vane Tempest Pit) and the road up to St.Maryâs church (in the dip down to the promenade) The excavation equipment was garaged up at the old vicarage (where âGazaâ Paul Gascoigne stayed for a while!)
Anyhow, dad bought one of these tippers in late â49â.We know it was a Commer,we know it was petrol and we know it was cream in colour.(no reg)
What model? we can only guess.Ron was only 9 yrs old at the time so he isânt sure? Any suggestions on possibilities?
Ron can remember one other haulier leading off the beach. Parkerâs from South Shields and his wagon an(old,even then) Albion with a long nosed bonnet?
This information was gleaned from my brother today and lotâs more besides but iâm trying hard to keep it all chronological and pace it so we donât jump back and forwards with dates etc. More to come .
Iâm sure there are people on here that can explain the workingâs of an operatorâs licence back in the early sixties?
I would like to be informed of the requirements for the progression from a âCâ" licence to a âBâ licence at that time?
I know my dad tried to progress throâ this procedure to enable to enlarge his business , but was knocked back by another local haulier
(we think) who had without doubt(representation) sway in the local R.H.AâŚwater under the bridge and all that⌠
paulycats:
Iâm sure there are people on here that can explain the workingâs of an operatorâs licence back in the early sixties?I would like to be informed of the requirements for the progression from a âCâ" licence to a âBâ licence at that time?
I know my dad tried to progress throâ this procedure to enable to enlarge his business , but was knocked back by another local haulier
(we think) who had without doubt(representation) sway in the local R.H.AâŚwater under the bridge and all thatâŚ
Hi âpaulycatsâ The Operaters Licence didnât come into force until 1970.IIRC, The old licence A.B. & C & S, The A licence was the best one to have , No restrictions on anything The B licence had limits on milage & what could you could carry, The C licence was for manufacturing companies who only carried the on goods, The S licence Was a special A Licence, There was also Contract ones for instance a haulier working for the likes of Tilcon could go anywhere but only allowed to carry the goods specified, From anyone of their quarries. In those days the head man Traffic commissioner was Tony Hanlon who was a tuff nut to crack when applying for any type of licence, And of course the main objecters were British Rail, B R S, & Any haulier who thought you were a threat to their work, You had to prove that you had a customer that would give you work,. The system was that if you had an A licence for instance for 20 ton, You could have 5 wagons weighing 4 ton each or whatever you had had to be no more than this Licence weight, & of course you could buy & sell them in those days, The operaters licence cant be sold, Unless someone buys the firm out that has one & continues to operate, Also the O licence you have to have proof of funds. Hope this info helps you with your enquirey, Regards Larry.
Lawrence Dunbar:
paulycats:
Iâm sure there are people on here that can explain the workingâs of an operatorâs licence back in the early sixties?I would like to be informed of the requirements for the progression from a âCâ" licence to a âBâ licence at that time?
I know my dad tried to progress throâ this procedure to enable to enlarge his business , but was knocked back by another local haulier
(we think) who had without doubt(representation) sway in the local R.H.AâŚwater under the bridge and all thatâŚHi âpaulycatsâ The Operaters Licence didnât come into force until 1970.IIRC, The old licence A.B. & C & S, The A licence was the best one to have , No restrictions on anything The B licence had limits on milage & what could you could carry, The C licence was for manufacturing companies who only carried the on goods, The S licence Was a special A Licence, There was also Contract ones for instance a haulier working for the likes of Tilcon could go anywhere but only allowed to carry the goods specified, From anyone of their quarries. In those days the head man Traffic commissioner was Tony Hanlon who was a tuff nut to crack when applying for any type of licence, And of course the main objecters were British Rail, B R S, & Any haulier who thought you were a threat to their work, You had to prove that you had a customer that would give you work,. The system was that if you had an A licence for instance for 20 ton, You could have 5 wagons weighing 4 ton each or whatever you had had to be no more than this Licence weight, & of course you could buy & sell them in those days, The operaters licence cant be sold, Unless someone buys the firm out that has one & continues to operate, Also the O licence you have to have proof of funds. Hope this info helps you with your enquirey, Regards Larry.
This is the book that displayed what was happening in those days, Regards Larry.
Lawrence Dunbar:
paulycats:
Iâm sure there are people on here that can explain the workingâs of an operatorâs licence back in the early sixties?I would like to be informed of the requirements for the progression from a âCâ" licence to a âBâ licence at that time?
I know my dad tried to progress throâ this procedure to enable to enlarge his business , but was knocked back by another local haulier
(we think) who had without doubt(representation) sway in the local R.H.AâŚwater under the bridge and all thatâŚHi âpaulycatsâ The Operaters Licence didnât come into force until 1970.IIRC, The old licence A.B. & C & S, The A licence was the best one to have , No restrictions on anything The B licence had limits on milage & what could you could carry, The C licence was for manufacturing companies who only carried the on goods, The S licence Was a special A Licence, There was also Contract ones for instance a haulier working for the likes of Tilcon could go anywhere but only allowed to carry the goods specified, From anyone of their quarries. In those days the head man Traffic commissioner was Tony Hanlon who was a tuff nut to crack when applying for any type of licence, And of course the main objecters were British Rail, B R S, & Any haulier who thought you were a threat to their work, You had to prove that you had a customer that would give you work,. The system was that if you had an A licence for instance for 20 ton, You could have 5 wagons weighing 4 ton each or whatever you had had to be no more than this Licence weight, & of course you could buy & sell them in those days, The operaters licence cant be sold, Unless someone buys the firm out that has one & continues to operate, Also the O licence you have to have proof of funds. Hope this info helps you with your enquirey, Regards Larry.
Thanks for that excellent explanation Larry.
paulycats:
Lawrence Dunbar:
paulycats:
Iâm sure there are people on here that can explain the workingâs of an operatorâs licence back in the early sixties?I would like to be informed of the requirements for the progression from a âCâ" licence to a âBâ licence at that time?
I know my dad tried to progress throâ this procedure to enable to enlarge his business , but was knocked back by another local haulier
(we think) who had without doubt(representation) sway in the local R.H.AâŚwater under the bridge and all thatâŚHi âpaulycatsâ The Operaters Licence didnât come into force until 1970.IIRC, The old licence A.B. & C & S, The A licence was the best one to have , No restrictions on anything The B licence had limits on milage & what could you could carry, The C licence was for manufacturing companies who only carried the on goods, The S licence Was a special A Licence, There was also Contract ones for instance a haulier working for the likes of Tilcon could go anywhere but only allowed to carry the goods specified, From anyone of their quarries. In those days the head man Traffic commissioner was Tony Hanlon who was a tuff nut to crack when applying for any type of licence, And of course the main objecters were British Rail, B R S, & Any haulier who thought you were a threat to their work, You had to prove that you had a customer that would give you work,. The system was that if you had an A licence for instance for 20 ton, You could have 5 wagons weighing 4 ton each or whatever you had had to be no more than this Licence weight, & of course you could buy & sell them in those days, The operaters licence cant be sold, Unless someone buys the firm out that has one & continues to operate, Also the O licence you have to have proof of funds. Hope this info helps you with your enquirey, Regards Larry.
Thanks for that excellent explanation Larry.
You are most welcome, My old gray cells are fading but after a few single Malts they sometimes burst back into life, Im from the old school of drivers, And like many more on this thread remember the good old days, You should try getting to the Gathering at the Labour Club in the Toon sometime in June this year, Its a fantastic way of chatting to drivers from the old & new days in haulage, Regards Larry.
- First petrol engined Commer (no reg) replaced by petrol engined âOâ type Bedford. (second hand,no reg) This ran until first new wagon. Bedford âJâ type diesel, in maroon bought from A&G Sunderland and as stated in othersâ previous posts, i can remember the wooden stairs up to the parts dept. We also have our first known registration, KGR 491. We ainât sure on the exact year, but we think about 1958/59? This was the first wagon i can remember and rode in.
Dad ran sand from West Hartlepool and Seaton Carew beaches to 2 foundryâs in Newcastle, one was Blackett Charlton (we think might have been Walker) and the second was in Pottery Lane? off the quayside. The former was the place where the load was shoveled off throâ an access to the side of the works, the latter had a high ceiling so could be tipped off. Interestingly the works in Pottery Lane went bankrupt owing dad ÂŁ700 (this in very early sixties) a very big sum then. The ownerâs had an hotel in Ireland apparently but kept that! Dad got 3d in the pound settlement!
Dad was also loading sand from Sherburn Hill and gravel from Warden Law (both Hargreaves quarries) supplying local builders in the area including the local councils. It would be at this time that broâ took up full time employment as a driver for dad (1961) and so became J.Paul and son.
Broâs first motor was a âTraderâ reg no. 193 PT bought from Youngs Ford dealer at Bishop Auckland. It would be about a year old and was previously owned by Bamboroughâs from Ch/le/St. (used for coal and long wheelbase) Yellow cab and blue wooden body. Some interesting times ahead for this wagon! And more names of local tipper ownerâs and drivers.
Just to recall the main haulier off Hartlepool beach. This was accessed throâ a small tunnel under the Hâpool to Sâland train line at the most Easterly point of the A1049 (roundabout) How on earth wagons were driven throâ there? The tunnel seems VERY small now! (now closed off)
Anyway, it was J.Burdon and Sonâs, cream coloured (Bedfordâs mostly) with green trim? Two of their driverâs, Ray Knight (senior) and Stan Wilson went on to drive for RMC at Ryhope (coast road site) and probably the RMC plant in Warden Law. (we think Ray Knight jnr may still be driving for LDS transport Seaham?
I thought J.Burdon and Sons was a Hartlepool based firm but maybe not?
Payloads.
The four wheel tipperâs mentioned by me(so far) i.e. J type and Trader Both wagonâs have roughly the same âgivenâ axle weightâs Front 5 tonâs and rear 9 tonâs? So a potential of 14 tonâs gross?
However, the legal gross weight at the time would be 12 to 12.5 tonâs?
How many operatorâs would take the vehicle to the max(or over) and risk prosecution? Iâm sure dad risked it quite a few times!
Would this be the norm in that day with not many accessible weighbridges available? I assume the âpolisâ would congregate near to weighbridges?
paulycats:
Just to recall the main haulier off( West) Hartlepool beach. This was accessed throâ a small tunnel under the Hâpool to Sâland train line at the most Easterly point of the A1049 (roundabout) How on earth wagons were driven throâ there? The tunnel seems VERY small now! (now closed off)
Anyway, it was J.Burdon and Sonâs, cream coloured (Bedfordâs mostly) with green trim? Two of their driverâs, Ray Knight (senior) and Stan Wilson went on to drive for RMC at Ryhope (coast road site) and probably the RMC plant in Warden Law. (we think Ray Knight jnr may still be driving for LDS transport Seaham?
I thought J.Burdon and Sons was a Hartlepool based firm but maybe not?
If Iâm thinking of the same tunnel, I used it when I worked for Miles Druce Metals, it was tight and dark (Iâm resisting the dirty quip 
) Steetley had a plant there, we delivered steelstock to the engineering dept. At the time I usually drove an ergo cabbed Leyland. Regards Kev.
Photoâs from fb. Not sure if they have been posted before.
kevmac47:
paulycats:
Just to recall the main haulier off( West) Hartlepool beach. This was accessed throâ a small tunnel under the Hâpool to Sâland train line at the most Easterly point of the A1049 (roundabout) How on earth wagons were driven throâ there? The tunnel seems VERY small now! (now closed off)
Anyway, it was J.Burdon and Sonâs, cream coloured (Bedfordâs mostly) with green trim? Two of their driverâs, Ray Knight (senior) and Stan Wilson went on to drive for RMC at Ryhope (coast road site) and probably the RMC plant in Warden Law. (we think Ray Knight jnr may still be driving for LDS transport Seaham?
I thought J.Burdon and Sons was a Hartlepool based firm but maybe not?If Iâm thinking of the same tunnel, I used it when I worked for Miles Druce Metals, it was tight and dark (Iâm resisting the dirty quip
Yes mate thatâs the same tunnel. I remember Steetleyâs being there (on the right.Big chimney). If you google the map of West Hartlepool and zoom in you can see the embankment and the road either side of the tunnel.( Back in the day) The weighbridge was on the right as you went throâ and as you came out onto the beach you would turn left and and maybe a run of 200 yds in behind the dunes (they were really high, 20 to 30 feet) where the wagons were loaded.Looks like there is a water treatment/sewerage works there now?..dark,wet and smelly
paulycats:
1950. First petrol engined Commer (no reg) replaced by petrol engined âOâ type Bedford. (second hand,no reg) This ran until first new wagon. Bedford âJâ type diesel, in maroon bought from A&G Sunderland and as stated in othersâ previous posts, i can remember the wooden stairs up to the parts dept. We also have our first known registration, KGR 491. We ainât sure on the exact year, but we think about 1958/59? This was the first wagon i can remember and rode in.
Dad ran sand from West Hartlepool and Seaton Carew beaches to 2 foundryâs in Newcastle, one was Blackett Charlton (we think might have been Walker) and the second was in Pottery Lane? off the quayside. The former was the place where the load was shoveled off throâ an access to the side of the works, the latter had a high ceiling so could be tipped off. Interestingly the works in Pottery Lane went bankrupt owing dad ÂŁ700 (this in very early sixties) a very big sum then. The ownerâs had an hotel in Ireland apparently but kept that! Dad got 3d in the pound settlement!
Dad was also loading sand from Sherburn Hill and gravel from Warden Law (both Hargreaves quarries) supplying local builders in the area including the local councils. It would be at this time that broâ took up full time employment as a driver for dad (1961) and so became J.Paul and son.
Broâs first motor was a âTraderâ reg no. 193 PT bought from Youngs Ford dealer at Bishop Auckland. It would be about a year old and was previously owned by Bamboroughâs from Ch/le/St. (used for coal and long wheelbase) Yellow cab and blue wooden body. Some interesting times ahead for this wagon! And more names of local tipper ownerâs and drivers.
Hi paulycats, The foundry on Pottery Lane would have been IIRC Blairs, The also had a one at Tow Law,Regards Larry.
It would be about this time (1961 ish) that dad signed up with Hargreaves Quarries Ltd and he bought another wagon (making 3)
Another new purchase from A&G Sunderland, another âJâ type Bedford diesel 4 wheeler reg. XGR 768?(painted in the then Hargreaves colour of grey/red trim with gold lettering) and this was driven by a lad called Bill Wheeler from Seaham(friend of the family). Brother Ron was supposed to be given the new motor and Bill would drive the Trader but Bill couldânt manage it for whatever reason?, so Ron kept the Trader.
At this time another local haulier, Joe Willoughby from Easington village also worked for Hargreaves but kept his own colour livery.
Joe had about 5 wagons, green with red trim and his name, phone number etc on each. If you go to Easington Village and look to the South East corner of the green, you will see a range of white buildings with a central courtyard (probably an old farm) where Joe kept his motors. A real gentleman. (probably about the same age as me dad)
We can remember driverâs, (2) Normanâs and âYorkieâ, obviously a yorkshireman! Joe ran Bedfordâs and Albionâs. I can remember âYorkieâ driving a six wheel Albion (early sixties Reiver) and the older Norman drove a TK Bedford. Joe drove a Chieftain.
Another well known haulier, Barnfather and Wilkes also ran out of Sherburn Hill. At this time they had Bedfordâs, a 2 stroke Commer and an AEC,all in their green livery.Driverâs we can remember are Percy Turnbull, Billy Steadman and Tommy Thompson and of course Tom Barnfather jnr. Tom senior was another gentleman me dad knew well and helped us out a few times with repairs.
Lawrence Dunbar:
paulycats:
1950. First petrol engined Commer (no reg) replaced by petrol engined âOâ type Bedford. (second hand,no reg) This ran until first new wagon. Bedford âJâ type diesel, in maroon bought from A&G Sunderland and as stated in othersâ previous posts, i can remember the wooden stairs up to the parts dept. We also have our first known registration, KGR 491. We ainât sure on the exact year, but we think about 1958/59? This was the first wagon i can remember and rode in.
Dad ran sand from West Hartlepool and Seaton Carew beaches to 2 foundryâs in Newcastle, one was Blackett Charlton (we think might have been Walker) and the second was in Pottery Lane? off the quayside. The former was the place where the load was shoveled off throâ an access to the side of the works, the latter had a high ceiling so could be tipped off. Interestingly the works in Pottery Lane went bankrupt owing dad ÂŁ700 (this in very early sixties) a very big sum then. The ownerâs had an hotel in Ireland apparently but kept that! Dad got 3d in the pound settlement!
Dad was also loading sand from Sherburn Hill and gravel from Warden Law (both Hargreaves quarries) supplying local builders in the area including the local councils. It would be at this time that broâ took up full time employment as a driver for dad (1961) and so became J.Paul and son.
Broâs first motor was a âTraderâ reg no. 193 PT bought from Youngs Ford dealer at Bishop Auckland. It would be about a year old and was previously owned by Bamboroughâs from Ch/le/St. (used for coal and long wheelbase) Yellow cab and blue wooden body. Some interesting times ahead for this wagon! And more names of local tipper ownerâs and drivers.Hi paulycats, The foundry on Pottery Lane would have been IIRC Blairs, The also had a one at Tow Law,Regards Larry.
Hi Larry and thanks for that. I donât suppose you have a forwarding address?
âExpensive fish and chips these likeâ!
It was probably a Friday lunchtime. Broâ had just bought his âfish lotâ in Pittington and was heading UP to Sherburn Hill quarry to have his dinner in the quarry. â193 PTâ was nearing her destination and lunch break, when coming DOWN the hill was a BMC commercial tipper owned by Adam Lithgoe (Scotland?,cream in colour) and (maybe) struggling to brake itâs speed? straying over to the offside of the road?
â193 PTâ moves nearside to offer extra room, but this road has no kerb and cambers away to grass verge and 6 foot drop to farmers field.
â193 PTâ gets caught in inevitable âleft hand pullâ and broâ tries to rescue his fish dinner from far side of cab(understandable when hungry) with left hand. One hand (right) is never going to keep â193 PTâ on the straight and narrow (no power steering) so she takes on âtractor modeâ and ploughs a lonely furrow in the farmers field (on her near side) and takes out a telegraph pole too!!
Broâ was very lucky to be alive really but we can laugh at it now!
The engine was still running when broâ gathered his thoughts, so lifted the central hatch and stopped it at the pump.
Anyone know about these Lithgoe tippers? We think they might have taken the yellow sand up to Scotland on return journeyâs (borderâs?)