Lawrence Dunbar:
Dave the Renegade:
windrush:
Spardo:
Retired Old ■■■■:
I seem to recall that, not long after the opening of the M1, with the announcement that more motorways were to be built around the UK, Foden introduced a high geared rear axle for long distance UK operations. Fitted to chassis with the 2-stroke engine, the few that appeared on our roads were certainly flyers, however tyre technology of the day was such that they used to fail with alarming frequency.
Maybe one for the “Good ideas that disappeared” thread!
Now you’ve jogged my memory. Someone once told me about a company called Nord, from Derbyshire, who produced a high speed 8 wheeler to race down the M1. It went fast alright, the apocrophyll tales mention various speeds up to 100 mph, but they found that, yes, the tyres were knackered by Scratchwood. 
Just to keep the thread on track 
, isn’t Scratchwood a fairly old cafe? 
Some NORDE information on the forum (put on by me) and it was an artic, not an eight. Designed to do two trips a day from Derbyshire to London, one of my neighbours worked on it and he supplied me the information.
Pete.
The last Foden that Tilcon had at the Gore was a 265LI eight wheeler,and the driver had 90mph out of it on the A438 Portwat straight going to Hereford, fully loaded.
Cheers Dave.
It must have had very high speed diffs in it 4.8s perhaps, I wonder how the brakes performed when trying to slow down ? Regards Larry.
Hiya,
Double drive diffs being dragged along at that speed would have a very
limited lifespan when fully laden I think it would have had to be one of
those trailing axle jobs.
thanks harry, long retired.
harry_gill:
Lawrence Dunbar:
Dave the Renegade:
windrush:
Spardo:
Retired Old ■■■■:
I seem to recall that, not long after the opening of the M1, with the announcement that more motorways were to be built around the UK, Foden introduced a high geared rear axle for long distance UK operations. Fitted to chassis with the 2-stroke engine, the few that appeared on our roads were certainly flyers, however tyre technology of the day was such that they used to fail with alarming frequency.
Maybe one for the “Good ideas that disappeared” thread!
Now you’ve jogged my memory. Someone once told me about a company called Nord, from Derbyshire, who produced a high speed 8 wheeler to race down the M1. It went fast alright, the apocrophyll tales mention various speeds up to 100 mph, but they found that, yes, the tyres were knackered by Scratchwood.
Just to keep the thread on track , isn’t Scratchwood a fairly old cafe?
Some NORDE information on the forum (put on by me) and it was an artic, not an eight. Designed to do two trips a day from Derbyshire to London, one of my neighbours worked on it and he supplied me the information.
Pete.
The last Foden that Tilcon had at the Gore was a 265LI eight wheeler,and the driver had 90mph out of it on the A438 Portwat straight going to Hereford, fully loaded.
Cheers Dave.
It must have had very high speed diffs in it 4.8s perhaps, I wonder how the brakes performed when trying to slow down ? Regards Larry.
Hiya,
Double drive diffs being dragged along at that speed would have a very
limited lifespan when fully laden I think it would have had to be one of
those trailing axle jobs.
thanks harry, long retired.
Quite correct Harry Direct Double Drive diffs would have been a problem, But Having said this I cant recall a Foden with a trailing axle, Unless it was a coversion perhaps, The D/Ds used to run very hot at 48, MPH, As I recall, Regards Larry.
Wouldn’t be a trailing axle, though there were a few Fodens about with them but not on Tilcon! British Salt and Rugby Cement had plenty, usually with reduction hubs. The Eaton or Rockwell diffs and Fuller box were pretty bombproof really, not like the old worm and wheel jobbies ha ha! Never had mine that fast, gaffer wouldn’t be too impressed when he saw the tacho chart.
Pete.
Well when the old Foden worm drive crown wheel was knackered it allways fetched top dollar at the scrap yard being P/Bronze, Regards Larry.
The second new Atky I bought in early 72’ I had built with a single speed Eaton axle which was geared at about 57mph which was just a bit too low geared,so the next Atky came a few months later and as it was allocated to our best driver I thought OK I’ll convert it to a 2 speed.But I should have had a lower geared crown wheel fitted at the same time 
Boy you couldn’t hardly get this motor into top 20th,it had the Fuller 610 box,talk about fly,just when I got it back from the dealer I got my Brother to clock me on the dual carriageway towards Kendal one Sunday he said I was just short of 90 mph when I had to “shut off” to bear off into Kendal,and it was still wanting to do a bit more.Needless to say we did run it up and down to London a few times but it was far too high geared so I got the crown wheel changed and it’s top speed was toned down a bit to sensible gearing,but it was always a motor that had all the speed and gradeability you needed,it still topped 70mph with ease throughout it’s operational life.I just can’t remember the Eaton ratios exactly 5:57,6:04 ? some of the “Technos” could maybe advise it’s a long time since I ran a Trader,D1000 and Leyland Mastiffs all with Eaton axles 1800 and 1900 series from memory.Cheers Bewick.
Lawrence Dunbar:
Well when the old Foden worm drive crown wheel was knackered it allways fetched top dollar at the scrap yard being P/Bronze, Regards Larry.
We never actually changed a worm wheel Larry, just the bearings. Some had teeth that were so worn you could shave with them but Fodens technical department advised us that as long as the worm turned and the wheel also did then they were OK for further use. Synthetic oil didn’t help matters, when we ran them on Silkolene we had no problems but when Tilcon insisted we change to BP synthetic as they got a good discount the oil leaks and pitted worm wheels began. Still they knew best!
Pete.
windrush:
Lawrence Dunbar:
Well when the old Foden worm drive crown wheel was knackered it allways fetched top dollar at the scrap yard being P/Bronze, Regards Larry.
We never actually changed a worm wheel Larry, just the bearings. Some had teeth that were so worn you could shave with them but Fodens technical department advised us that as long as the worm turned and the wheel also did then they were OK for further use. Synthetic oil didn’t help matters, when we ran them on Silkolene we had no problems but when Tilcon insisted we change to BP synthetic as they got a good discount the oil leaks and pitted worm wheels began. Still they knew best!
Pete.
Well that’s very true, I allways used Amber gear oil, It was that thick it was difficult to pour into the spout on the diffs, We used to stand it in boiling hot water for 15 mins & then pour it in but it was still a slow job, & as you say the crown wheels did get very sharp, Happy Foden days, Regards Larry.
Hi Bewick, when I worked on whartons/Ritsons meat haulage the boss bought a Atki of Atkins of Finden Derby it had been used on heavy haulage and it would only do 30mph up hill down dale and every Sunday some poor sod had to do Birkenhead to London with it ,purgatory Talking of Atkins (Finden) does anyone remember the cafe they had outside the main gate ,another big firm that disappeared
dexterboy:
Hi Bewick, when I worked on whartons/Ritsons meat haulage the boss bought a Atki of Atkins of Finden Derby it had been used on heavy haulage and it would only do 30mph up hill down dale and every Sunday some poor sod had to do Birkenhead to London with it ,purgatory Talking of Atkins (Finden) does anyone remember the cafe they had outside the main gate ,another big firm that disappeared
At least the ‘poor sod’ didn’t have to change gear except for the traffic lights though. Think of the relaxation, not having to worry about overtaking, just plodding along with dropping off to sleep the main danger. I had a Scammell Highwayman on Ilkeston haulage back in the 70s, running to Glasgow and all points south from Nottingham, 38mph top speed. The main effort with the gearlever was knocking it out coming down Stainmore. Didn’t stop one of my mates falling asleep at the lights in Penrith - till one of McKelvie’s ran out of patience after several changes behind him, opened his door and smacked him across the face.
I remember Atkins well before they built that cafe, but I rarely used it as it seemed more like a motorway service area than the other caffs on the A38 towards Birmingham.
Hiya,
Atkins café, was in appearance a bit motorway “servicey” but the grub was
decent and comparable pricewise to another couple of cafe’s further down
the A38, Oh’ and you didn’t risk busting a spring when using the lorry park,
now what was the rest of the cafe’s called along that stretch, there was a
place along the 38 a bit nearer “Brum” that had what looked like WW2
DUKWs just inside the entrance is that still there? have had a go on Google
but can’t pick anything up.
thanks harry, long retired.
harry_gill:
Hiya,
Atkins café, was in appearance a bit motorway “servicey” but the grub was
decent and comparable pricewise to another couple of cafe’s further down
the A38, Oh’ and you didn’t risk busting a spring when using the lorry park,
now what was the rest of the cafe’s called along that stretch, there was a
place along the 38 a bit nearer “Brum” that had what looked like WW2
DUKWs just inside the entrance is that still there? have had a go on Google
but can’t pick anything up.
thanks harry, long retired.
The Trees (I think it was called) was further on on the right and my favourite, but had very little parking. Before that there was one with a bigger park, still there last time I looked (some years ago now) but imo not so good. On the south(west)bound side there was one called the Airport or the Aerodrome I think.
Spardo:
The Trees (I think it was called) was further on on the right and my favourite, but had very little parking. Before that there was one with a bigger park, still there last time I looked (some years ago now) but imo not so good. On the south(west)bound side there was one called the Airport or the Aerodrome I think.
Yes the Aerodrome (?) went some years ago, the Oak Tree is now something totally different but the one near Barton turns (Oakamoor) is still there and looks fairly busy. Of course there are now services on the Southbound side.
Going off topic Spardo, did you know Dennis Amies who drove for Ilkeston Haulage?
Pete.
windrush:
Spardo:
The Trees (I think it was called) was further on on the right and my favourite, but had very little parking. Before that there was one with a bigger park, still there last time I looked (some years ago now) but imo not so good. On the south(west)bound side there was one called the Airport or the Aerodrome I think.
Yes the Aerodrome (?) went some years ago, the Oak Tree is now something totally different but the one near Barton turns (Oakamoor) is still there and looks fairly busy. Of course there are now services on the Southbound side.
Going off topic Spardo, did you know Dennis Amies who drove for Ilkeston Haulage?
Pete.
The Oak Tree is the one I was thinking of I reckon, very little space on the corner of another road to park but I always used to squeeze in if I could at lunchtime. A proper cooked meal with apple pie and custard to follow. BTW, I see you are from Matlock, could I have been confusing the name of the Oak Tree with The Trees which was a little shack on the bend at the end of Whatstandwell Bridge? Even less parking there.
Oakamoor was the one I couldn’t recall the name of. Pleased to see it still exists, even if it wasn’t my first choice for grub. 
Can’t say that I knew Dennis Amies, but the name does ring a faint bell. When was he there, in the 70s? And what did he drive, Scammell Highwayman or AEC Mandator?
Spardo, I am not sure when Dennis was there as he worked for that haulage company at Ockbrook, Walkers, as well, then later he had his own truck on contract to Carters at Kegworth. He speaks of driving AEC’s and Scammell’s though. Think it WAS the Trees at Whatstandwell Bridge, ARMSTRONG on here would know as he lives there.
Pete.
windrush:
Spardo, I am not sure when Dennis was there as he worked for that haulage company at Ockbrook, Walkers, as well, then later he had his own truck on contract to Carters at Kegworth. He speaks of driving AEC’s and Scammell’s though. Think it WAS the Trees at Whatstandwell Bridge, ARMSTRONG on here would know as he lives there.
Pete.
That cafe was named after the 3 trees which stood on the corner of the road. The cafe was a little shack and every morning there were several tippers jammed in where they could while the drivers were inside stuffing down bacon sarnies. I was in there when I could while working for Shaws at Stapleford, we used to often load asphalt blocks out of Matlock. Hard graft that was, especially in the summer.
I went to Ilkeston Haulage from Shaws, but in those days never needed to stay beyond the first row, always another job waiting just round the corner, so the names disappear into the ether. Come to think of it there was a Dennis at Shaws, but he was older than me (they all were then). Could he have been at Midlands Storage at West Hallam? Seem to think there was a Dennis Amies or Amos there. 
Wasn’t the Oakmore cafe at I think Barton under Needwood ? That was another good cafe glad it’s still going ,as a member of the Harry Gill fan club I can confirm the car park at Atkins was better than most as he said ,I wonder who had the worst car park out of all the old cafés ? I am going for the Rendevous on the A5Rugby it was on the site before the truck stop anything over tick over and you could bust a spring it was awful but not a bad cafe ,it was 24hr had a log fire it was good having a laugh with your mates sitting by the fire
Thank you Spardo , glad I was not the only poor sod stuck with a 30/40mph motor. I soon got my 2stroke Commer back and back doing 70mph down the MI. when you could do that speed Cheers
The Trees cafe was at Alrewas on the A38, it’s now a British Legion club. The woman who ran it at one time was related (sister?) to the woman that ran the Hollies on the A5.
So I was right after all, the Trees on the A38. 
Still sure the one at Whatstandwell was the Trees too though. I think there were 3 (real) trees along with the cabin on a very small site.
Dexterboy:
Thank you Spardo , glad I was not the only poor sod stuck with a 30/40mph motor. I soon got my 2stroke Commer back and back doing 70mph down the MI. when you could do that speed Cheers
But how were your ears afterwards? 
I had one at Shaws after they had been taken over by Dormers of Leytonstone and their management handed over to another subsidiary, Coopers of Wednesbury ('av yo bin caffee shapping eet agin?). The racket was unbearable. Also one for Maurice Bradley who was a subbie for Dixon’s of Derby. Especially since that one ran out of air after a couple of pumps of the brakes on a steep hill and would promptly stop, I felt I was well rid of ‘knockers’.
Trev_H:
The Trees cafe was at Alrewas on the A38, it’s now a British Legion club. The woman who ran it at one time was related (sister?) to the woman that ran the Hollies on the A5.
Hiya,
Trev, I asked a little further back if anyone remembers what looked like an
ex-wd surplus store on the side of the southbound lane in the area of the
“Trees” café there was always a couple of those DUKWs parked near the
entrance always fancied a look round but never had time my gaffers always
made sure of that.
thanks harry, long retired.
