newmercman:
However, this would only make any sense when buying an existing business, a business with a long history, a good reputation, contracted work and a good chance of getting back every penny it costs you in the first few years.
You won’t get that from buying a company that had an old two grand banger on chinese remoulds and no contracted work, so we go back to the beginning again, unless it’s a solvent company with good long term contracts then it’s a waste of time and money 
The adverts in CM appear to refer to the entity alone, and don’t mention any type of vehicle, new or old, being included in the sale. So they don’t tick any of the boxes referred to above, yet still they are being offered for sale, so the question is, does anyone actually buy them?
I’d agree that if you did buy one such company, and it was a limited company with an Operator’s Licence, that you would not need to apply for a new licence as it is the company which holds the licence and not the individual who set up the company. Obviously the TC would need to be informed of the change of ownership but as I understand it, the new owner would be able to start trading immediately.
Gregorys did that with Hayton Coulthard IIRC
This is what ■■■■■■ me off about pre pack, they run out of money on Thursday and have a new O licence and fresh fuel suppliers on Monday. What happened to repute? What happens to all the suppliers and sub contractors?
Well I’ve had a look around and there are some strange propositions about.
TRANSPORT/HAULAGE COMPANY - CENTRAL LOCATION
Business price does not include vehicles which are to be current owner purchased at additional cost to be negotiated or leased from
Turnover of £455,525 with good profits
Early interest highly recommended
Easy access to motorway network
Ideal location for business type
Genuine reason for sale
Year on year growth
LEASEHOLD
£249,995
Turnover of £455,525 suggests 4-5 vehicles, although vehicles aren’t included in the deal and it’s running from leasehold premises. I realise that anyone can offer anything for sale at any price, but who would pay a quarter of a million pounds for essentially nothing but a 5-vehicle O licence?
newmercman:
Gregorys did that with Hayton Coulthard IIRC
I thought that was more to do with Coulthards having a difference of opinion with the laws of the land and was to keep the work■■?
Harry Monk:
Well I’ve had a look around and there are some strange propositions about.
TRANSPORT/HAULAGE COMPANY - CENTRAL LOCATION
Business price does not include vehicles which are to be current owner purchased at additional cost to be negotiated or leased from
Turnover of £455,525 with good profits
Early interest highly recommended
Easy access to motorway network
Ideal location for business type
Genuine reason for sale
Year on year growth
LEASEHOLD
£249,995
Turnover of £455,525 suggests 4-5 vehicles, although vehicles aren’t included in the deal and it’s running from leasehold premises. I realise that anyone can offer anything for sale at any price, but who would pay a quarter of a million pounds for essentially nothing but a 5-vehicle O licence?
Honestly depends if you had a cast iron contract for some decent work may be worthwhile but if its a jobbing small haulage firm seems a lot to shell out for small returns that a lot of haulage firms get.
What is the current amount needed for a five vehicle licence 25 or so k?
kr79:
Honestly depends if you had a cast iron contract for some decent work may be worthwhile but if its a jobbing small haulage firm seems a lot to shell out for small returns that a lot of haulage firms get.
What is the current amount needed for a five vehicle licence 25 or so k?
Unless it’s come down again, you’d need funds of £24,100 for a five vehicle licence, although that is not of course “spent money”. Taking everything into account, down to printer ink, postage and the petrol I used running around sorting out an operating centre, I’d say my licence ended up costing about £1,000.
Here’s another ad I found.
Haulage Contractor
Wrexham, Clywd
Turnover: £94,000 per annum
Run from home
Leasehold: £24,950
Ref: P2690
No mention of any vehicle being offered, and I’m sure that if one was included, it would be mentioned. That’s obviously a one-man operation, his turnover is slightly less than mine.
I’m curious about this, and whether these companies actually sell. I’ve got another 1 year and 9 months on finance, and assuming the truck is still reliable enough I’ll run it off-finance for a year but then I’m planning on selling absolutely everything I own and buying a liveaboard canal narrowboat and spending the rest of my days pottering around the UK canal network at 3 mph. So even if I could sell the company entity for just £2,000 then that would pay for a year’s Continuous Cruising licence, third-party insurance and diesel.
So I’m still wondering about these ads in CM and whether these newly formed companies do sell…
Is strange only thing i can think of theres some kind of tax dodge.
Sounds good that ive always fancied having a little boat and living on it.
They day that the here are two good days of boat ownership, the day you buy it and the day you sell it 
A lot like a lorry really 
Ive heard that too. Still something nice about the river though
newmercman:
They day that the here are two good days of boat ownership, the day you buy it and the day you sell it
A lot like a lorry really
A friend of mine who used to be an owner driver lives on a boat on the river soar and would not come back to dry land to live ever, he must be approaching 70 and still goes off on some long jaunts if he can get someone to open the lock gates for him.
Wheel Nut:
A friend of mine who used to be an owner driver lives on a boat on the river soar and would not come back to dry land to live ever, he must be approaching 70 and still goes off on some long jaunts if he can get someone to open the lock gates for him.
I’ve wanted to live on a narrowboat for over twenty years but never been in a position to, my children will be 18 in 2016 so they won’t need me around all the time. I know plenty of people who live on the cut and it’s very rare for anybody to go back to living on land.
£20k buys a decent boat with a long Boat Safety Certificate, after that it’s £1,000 a year for licence and insurance, then just the cost of the diesel. a litre an hour and that’s it. You can moor anywhere canalside for up to two weeks for free, so long as you genuinely keep moving, and even Winter moorings in a Marina are only £200 a month or thereabouts.
I could do it tomorrow but would only have enough savings to keep me going for 2-3 years. Barring any major problems, if I keep saving as much as I can then by 2016 I should have enough to keep me afloat until my old age pension kicks in, I might do a few months truck driving over the Winter just to top up my funds but I really wouldn’t care if I never saw the M25 or a Tesco RDC ever again.
Obviously, if I could legally get any amount of money at all for the Ltd Co and O licence when I’m ready to jump then I would, hence the OP. So any info about that would be gratefully received.
AND, don’t forget Harry - when you are on the canal - NO Council Tax to pay - that’s another bonus but don’t retire just yet, you’ll miss all the day to day hassles and finding solutions !
so where would we find you then harry in. Barges in Britain /horse and hound /farmers weekly… all joking aside it does seem a grand life on the canals…
I heard that Bertie plc,ltd will be floated on the stock market.I project a strong annual bonus and offshore dividend pay out for 2016.
kr79:
limeyphil:
Lets say you have a wedge of cash and are looking to invest it, A guy on the golf course happens to mention that his present haulier is a waste of time and needs to look elsewhere. You and he have a meeting, You agree a rate and you can lay your hands on several lorries and trailers. The thing standing in the way is an o’licence.
You buy the Ltd company complete with an o’licence for the usual £30k and start trading within a week. Otherwise it’ll take several months and the loss of maybe £500,000 in turnover and probably the loss of the contract.
O licence is non transferable althouh id imagine the traffic commisioner would grant interimauthority as long as nin of the directors were dubious
The o’licence isn’t transfered, The o’licence is still owned by the company, The company simply has a new director/shareholder.
limeyphil:
The o’licence isn’t transfered, The o’licence is still owned by the company, The company simply has a new director/shareholder.
Yes, this is true, I have a Ltd Co which holds an O Licence but I could sell that to somebody else and they could quite legally start trading tomorrow. That’s the whole point of going Ltd Co, it separates the person from the company. Of course, they would have to notify the TC.
You mentioned a potential selling price at £30,000 earlier on, to be fair I doubt it. There’s an owner-driver operation in Wrexham on sale on Daltons at the mo for £25,000 and I doubt it will sell for that price either.
But logic suggests that if an O licence costs £1,000 and takes ten weeks to be granted, then one which is legally ready to ready to go tomorrow must be worth at least as much as that. So we can narrow it down to somewhere between £1,000 and £30,000 
Wheel Nut:
kr79:
limeyphil:
Lets say you have a wedge of cash and are looking to invest it, A guy on the golf course happens to mention that his present haulier is a waste of time and needs to look elsewhere. You and he have a meeting, You agree a rate and you can lay your hands on several lorries and trailers. The thing standing in the way is an o’licence.
You buy the Ltd company complete with an o’licence for the usual £30k and start trading within a week. Otherwise it’ll take several months and the loss of maybe £500,000 in turnover and probably the loss of the contract.
O licence is non transferable althouh id imagine the traffic commisioner would grant interimauthority as long as nin of the directors were dubious
I think Paul (Repton) went for an interim licence and it took about 3 or 4 months to be granted. I don’t think he was particularly dubious either.
That’s my experience as well and a FOI request about how many they grant, and how promptly they do, might make an interesting article/investigation for CM.
It’s no better on restricted either. In my view, particularly with restricted, if you’ve got a newish truck on R&M based in a known industrial/commercial postcode they should be issuing an interim in 48hrs maximum.
Sounds like a rip off to me. Newly formed company for sale? Someone’s looking to tuckup vulnerable or desprate people. I new of a bloke who had a fresh fruit orchard afew miles up a narrow lane off a busy main road. selling to passing trade by putting an A bord on the road.
he sold it to someone saying he was going to retire but never told them he’d bought a field down the same lane but it was much closer to the main road and alot better site where people turn off so thay pass his orchard first,and all the exsisting customers of course knew him already .
He basically used the money he got from the sale his first orchard to pay for the costs of getting the better sited orchard closer down the road.
If the person he sold his first orchard to knew he was going do all this thay never would have bought it. In short he got a better site to sell from for himself, got someone easel to pay for it and kept all the customers too !
People that bought the old orchard were pritty much focked ! I don’t mind betting that newly formed company thing thats advertised is a con some way or another too.
If you are buying a company because of its contracts then you would not be getting ripped off if the previous owner started up with the contract again, you would be a fool 
You would have legal documents drawn up stating that the contract is now yours and the previous owner cannot bid for it again for a specific period, there’s a name for it, but it eludes me at present